Time is movement of matter through space. As long as there is something that moves there will be time.
Time; do you believe in it?
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does a tree makes any noise if it falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it?? yes, of course it does, the fact that you don´t perceive it yourself doesn't take for the fact that it still emits sound waves that resonate in the airXHolySmokesX said:
taking this basic principle, "time" is a real thing, a "dimension" of sorts, we have a basic understanding of "depth" "height" "length" and every other "dimension" we can perceive, but if it didn't had time, it wouldn't exist
the fact that its a "line" or a series of "branches" where something could or couldn't happen just means that we perceive time with our limited senses, we are accustomed to our life span but what does a life span means for a mosquito that lives roughly from 3 to 100 days? does it means it lives a short life? or what about "dog years"? now lets extrapolate, what does time mean for the galaxy? hell we will be gone before reaching 200 years, and that is nothing compared to the life span of a solar system.
yes, we as humans haven't really got the hang of what "time" means and as such we use it as a measuring tool to make record of "events" that have unfolded or will unfold within our perceived reality, it might be a mystery that science cant (or wont) comprehend, but in the end i still believe that once we actually get it right, who would want to change things in the past? or even still, who would want to travel to the future? at least i am sure that we as an evolving race wouldn't want to "go back" and do "stupid" things like trying to change the holocaust or any other mayor events, i suspect that if time travel is indeed possible, the gov would immediately ban traveling to our young civilization, we have just being living in this world a few years, and i imagine people from the future will realize that time traveling to this era would be completely useless.
so yeah, it exists, its a dimension, its part of what everything means and ultimately its one of the mayor mysteries in our world that wont be discovered for many many years to come.
Time is a human concept, to understand the natural world we must be able to theorize beyond the confines of time.
Events that happen after or before another don't prove time has direction. That is again human perception. All it shows is that we feel movement requires time; that we we see time as a line. I want proof that doesn't rely on human perception. If all the evidence you have requires that, then time doesn't exist outside of us.King Toasty said:
I can't wait for the first alien species we meet that doesn't have time to just ruin thousands of years of our science.
Here's something, though. Whether the numbers are renumbered on the clock or we're on a different planet with a different yearly system, time will always be the constant. You're not thinking fourth dimensionally! You're thinking specifically in terms rather than the concept. The future is what will happen. The past is what has happened. These exist as a clear concept, as the present is the future of the past and the past of the future. They exist, as both something that is happening right now as well as what will/has happened. You don't need to change the system when time is the one constant that keeps it together. The system is man-made. Time is not. Is gravity man-made as well? We gave it a name, measurements, formulas; based on your logic, gravity is man-made, something we came up with ourselves. No, gravity is naturally occurring, as well as time.
Chaning the unit with which you measure time is not the same as 'changing' time itself...XHolySmokesX said:
Wait, you are mixing two things up.
This one moment, you are talking about clocks and how we measure time in our culture. Through clocks, timezones and calendars. No big deal there, it's only a method to measure the time we experience as humans.
But beyond that, beyond our senses and well beyond our dreams, there exsists a framework of the physical universe. Every atom excists of elementary particles of which a few still need to be physically found and we are still unable to classify the exact nature and function of each of these particles. What we do know is that every bit of energy inside an atom, will create movement. This movement may be fast or slow. A gain in speed and mass will decrease the movement speed of these particles. It is this movement speed that allows us to experience time. If there were no energy; there is no time. Everything stands perfectly still. But it does not matter, we will never experience time slowing down or speeding up. Even if we were to be immortal; what we experience is relative to our surroundings. If the universe slows down, we slow down too.
This one moment, you are talking about clocks and how we measure time in our culture. Through clocks, timezones and calendars. No big deal there, it's only a method to measure the time we experience as humans.
But beyond that, beyond our senses and well beyond our dreams, there exsists a framework of the physical universe. Every atom excists of elementary particles of which a few still need to be physically found and we are still unable to classify the exact nature and function of each of these particles. What we do know is that every bit of energy inside an atom, will create movement. This movement may be fast or slow. A gain in speed and mass will decrease the movement speed of these particles. It is this movement speed that allows us to experience time. If there were no energy; there is no time. Everything stands perfectly still. But it does not matter, we will never experience time slowing down or speeding up. Even if we were to be immortal; what we experience is relative to our surroundings. If the universe slows down, we slow down too.
I agree to a point.
-Time is a man made perception that allows us to quantify our existence. In that respect it exists, will always exist, and can be changed by no single being regardless of their power and influence.
Time by any other name?
Time's pace cannot be simply altered by renumbering or renaming. You'd need to pull the sky from above and place your hands firmly on the ground in a valiant effort to halt our planet before you to accomplish that.
-Time is not a phenomenon or realm that allows for travel, but a fixed chain of events that occurs always at a single point.
I'm willing to be wrong on that second point, in fact I hope I am.
The more wrong I am the more likely I go on a ridiculous journey to the ends of existence with the greatest (debate-ably fictional) man alive.
-Time is a man made perception that allows us to quantify our existence. In that respect it exists, will always exist, and can be changed by no single being regardless of their power and influence.
Time by any other name?
Time's pace cannot be simply altered by renumbering or renaming. You'd need to pull the sky from above and place your hands firmly on the ground in a valiant effort to halt our planet before you to accomplish that.
-Time is not a phenomenon or realm that allows for travel, but a fixed chain of events that occurs always at a single point.
I'm willing to be wrong on that second point, in fact I hope I am.
The more wrong I am the more likely I go on a ridiculous journey to the ends of existence with the greatest (debate-ably fictional) man alive.
If time doesn't exist, how would you explain the fact that time is relative depending on your speed?
I'll explain:
In theory, if you were to travel at say 99% of the speed of light, you as the traveller would age more slowly than the people who wern't travelling as fast as you.
Now, that's only a theory because we can't travel that fast, HOWEVER, an experiment was done where they perfectly synced two very accurate digital clocks. One clock stayed on earth, the other was put on a super fast plane and sent flying around the planet.
When they compared the two clocks afterwards, the number on the clock that had been in the plane was lower than the clock that had stayed still. It was a tiny, tiny difference, but a difference nonetheless, because time for the flying clock had slowed down as it moved.
I'll explain:
In theory, if you were to travel at say 99% of the speed of light, you as the traveller would age more slowly than the people who wern't travelling as fast as you.
Now, that's only a theory because we can't travel that fast, HOWEVER, an experiment was done where they perfectly synced two very accurate digital clocks. One clock stayed on earth, the other was put on a super fast plane and sent flying around the planet.
When they compared the two clocks afterwards, the number on the clock that had been in the plane was lower than the clock that had stayed still. It was a tiny, tiny difference, but a difference nonetheless, because time for the flying clock had slowed down as it moved.
If space exists then so does time.
Relativity says there is no universal concept of the present; it depends on your frame of reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity).
Time travel: only if you could bend spacetime in on itself. By travelling at close to the speed of light you may travel forwards in time but not instantaneously (e.g. take 5 years to travel 10 years into the future: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox).
You seem very confused. Lots of circular arguments. You appear to be trying to use time to disprove the existence of time.XHolySmokesX said:
But time still flows at the same rate on different planets (if you ignore the tiny difference in time dilation due to gravity).
Aha, a nugget of intelligence. There is certainly something to be said for the idea that there is no such thing as past, present and future, that they are illusions imposed by our ability only to remember events in what we call the past, and that all of time is predetermined.
Relativity says there is no universal concept of the present; it depends on your frame of reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity).
Time travel: only if you could bend spacetime in on itself. By travelling at close to the speed of light you may travel forwards in time but not instantaneously (e.g. take 5 years to travel 10 years into the future: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox).
I totally agree, I have had this idea before, but I explained it as "Time isn't an actual THING, just a measurement" so I said it considerably less smartly than you.
That's more or less how I view it. To "time travel" you would need a machine of nigh infinite power that could rearrange all the atoms in the universe to their previous configuration. Oops! We forgot to account for the atoms in use by the time machine and YOU. I guess little Timmy didn't need that bike for Christmas afterall. (Disclaimer: the farther back you go, the more important those atoms you are borrowing become; 5 minutes ago it wouldn't likely matter) In my mind, time is like speed. It's real and it exists but you can't hold it in your hand or row up and down it with a quantum boat. It is mighty useful for coordinating large groups of people though. Without it businesses couldn't exist. Yes I see that air violin you're playing. I hope you like growing, killing, cleaning and cooking your own McChicken sandwich. Muahahahaha!XHolySmokesX said:
I think the most rational way of thinking about time is a unit of measure. It measures decay and evolution of the environement, including all that lived in it. There are theories about time travel, but they're associated mostly with shortening time or slowing it, never a full reversal... so no one can go back... yet!
Clearly you are no physicist. The only way to explain many advance concept in physics is using a 4 or high dimensional model and the 4th dimension is always time. As a matter of fact there is a theory that the universe is not in fact one where event happen in order and things progress but is in fact a block universe where everything exists in all the states it will be in simultaneously and the human mind simply creates an illusion of time in order to process it. (Never understood that one actually) not to mention that more advance theory speculate the future events may influence past events meaning that the dimension of time must exist in order to facilitate this interaction. Also, don't confuse time and mad-made measures of time. Measuring time is done by a number of methods as noted but they are not time and have no control over time, they just measure it. Saying you can control time by changing a clock is like saying I control the 2nd dimension by altering a ruler. Then there is the fact that time is affected by relativity in the same way as space and is relative to the observer which would happen if time didn't exist since theoretically everything would proceed int he same constant way since there is nothing to alter with relativity. Anyways, no I disagree because physics.
Time is often considered the "fourth dimension" as it does exist, but is simply not tangible to the senses in the same way that the other three are. Time is a continuum of events, it can be observed and measured. Our dynamic universe that constantly changes is time. Space as we know it wouldn't WORK with no time. Think of a graph for the X, Y and Z co-ordinates as just the Y value, and time as the X value... that idea works for me just from a thought perspective. We only physically perceive the y axis but perceive the effects of x axis.
That is most likely scientifically inaccurate on the graph idea, but it is useful to understand the continuum.
That is most likely scientifically inaccurate on the graph idea, but it is useful to understand the continuum.
I was going to say something intelligent until I read the comments. Now I feel like a complete idiot.
If you wanted to time-travel (in theory), wouldn't you need to simply develop a machine that could travel twice the speed of Earth's rotation? Don't think about it too hard.
If you wanted to time-travel (in theory), wouldn't you need to simply develop a machine that could travel twice the speed of Earth's rotation? Don't think about it too hard.
No, in laymen's terms it means you have no idea what you're talking about.XHolySmokesX said:
WTF m8? Dimensions are not "places" that you can transition to and from; they are degrees of freedom. We exist in 4-dimensional spacetime, meaning we have 4 degrees of freedom: left-right, up-down, backwards-forwards, and past-future. But those are only names. We can move freely in the first 3 of those dimensions, and are forever moving into the future at a rate that depends upon our speed in the first 3.
Spacetime certainly can be manipulated by something within it: mass bends it.
You did not use the phrase "the faster you go the slower you are going" anywhere that I can see.