Tips for Fighting Games

[Maximum Bert]

I'm actually curious about Persona 4 Arena. I'm a huge fan of Persona 3 and 4, and my inner fanboy squeals with glee at the idea of the two casts being brought together. Without really spoiling anything, could you tell me if the plot is at least decent, and if it's mechanically sound as a game?

The story is great if you like Persona but dont expect much fighting during it just a lot of reading but if you like Persona 3 and 4 then you will be used to a lot of reading text in a game.

Its my favourite story in a fighter by far followed by Chronophantasma then MK9 and then the rest then SF4 (which has a bad story even for a fighter imo), that might seem like a back handed compliment I mean the genre hasnt exactly established itself as one that delivers gripping tales but those 3 I mentioned do just that. Persona 4 arena also condenses the story massively during arcade mode if you want the short version (these scenes are also skippable if you just want to fight)

Mechanically the game is great, pretty balanced as well to be honest I think its now established that Mitsuru is the best but outside of top level play you are unlikely to notice.

If you want the game in Europe you will have to get it on disc as its been pulled digitally. Apart from the story though there is no reason to get that one rather than wait a few months and get the sequel since they now have Segas help they should be able to self publish in Europe so hopefully we will get it a lot earlier its also not region locked this time I believe at least thats what I am told and hoping as I have preordered my import copy.

In short like Persona 3 and/or 4? like fighters? if yes to both of these do yourself a favour and get the game. If you just like Persona they are still worth getting if you care about the story (dont worry about getting stuck on a fight in the story mode they are all very easy battles, purposely so I believe).

 

[mrm5561]

honestly i always used the female fighters to get used to a new fighting game. the girls tend to be faster characters so after awhile you get the hang of pulling off combos and blocking. as for my favorite games
1. injustice- if you like dc comics this game is a love letter to you.
2. Mortal Kombat- same team as injustice so if you like one you will like the other
3. dragon ball z hd collection- after these games the dbz series really changed and in my option they changed for the worse, but these two games were very solid and fun games.
4. marvel vs capcom 3- you can find it for like 8$ and its a fun game

 

[Username Redacted]

The only reason I used cr. lk instead of cr. mp is because it's somewhat easier to link.

The main reason I even mentioned someone other than Ryu is because some people can't stand the shotos. OP, if you don't mind shoto characters (Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Evil Ryu/Oni sort of), try Ryu. Probably the best for fundamentals, since there's no gimmicky stuff he can do.

IMO at this point having played fighting games for a while and having seen others come after me into the genre I think that at least at the very beginning (now easier due to their prevalence in SFIV) that a person should start off with a shoto type character due to what those types of characters emphasize in their playstyle. I would also add Gouken, Guile and Sagat to your list with Ryu, Ken and Guile probably being the easiest of those listed to play.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

Playing strictly against computer characters can actually make you worse, in the long run. You might learn to rely on strategies that only work because they are exploiting AI flaws.

Not to mention, Guy and Dudley aren't the most beginner-friendly characters. You'll be able to pick up most characters with enough work, but at this point you should be learning fundamentals primarily.

Personally I recommend Ryu, Cody and Balrog(the last one only if you like charge characters, which I do not). Ryu and Balrog can teach you stuff like spacing, and Ryu especially can teach you anti-airs and spacing fireballs. Cody can teach you some easy links (linking together moves, which is different than canceling them into a special), but his poor wake-up options means you'll be forced to learn to block well, which is especially important in a game like Street Fighter 4.

What exactly is it about Dudley and Guy that makes them poor choices for beginners? I'd like to know what traits to take into account when picking characters in other fighting games.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

I'm actually curious about Persona 4 Arena. I'm a huge fan of Persona 3 and 4, and my inner fanboy squeals with glee at the idea of the two casts being brought together. Without really spoiling anything, could you tell me if the plot is at least decent, and if it's mechanically sound as a game?

The story is great if you like Persona but dont expect much fighting during it just a lot of reading but if you like Persona 3 and 4 then you will be used to a lot of reading text in a game.

Its my favourite story in a fighter by far followed by Chronophantasma then MK9 and then the rest then SF4 (which has a bad story even for a fighter imo), that might seem like a back handed compliment I mean the genre hasnt exactly established itself as one that delivers gripping tales but those 3 I mentioned do just that. Persona 4 arena also condenses the story massively during arcade mode if you want the short version (these scenes are also skippable if you just want to fight)

Mechanically the game is great, pretty balanced as well to be honest I think its now established that Mitsuru is the best but outside of top level play you are unlikely to notice.

If you want the game in Europe you will have to get it on disc as its been pulled digitally. Apart from the story though there is no reason to get that one rather than wait a few months and get the sequel since they now have Segas help they should be able to self publish in Europe so hopefully we will get it a lot earlier its also not region locked this time I believe at least thats what I am told and hoping as I have preordered my import copy.

In short like Persona 3 and/or 4? like fighters? if yes to both of these do yourself a favour and get the game. If you just like Persona they are still worth getting if you care about the story (dont worry about getting stuck on a fight in the story mode they are all very easy battles, purposely so I believe).

Thanks for the info. I live in the US, so their odd European release policies shouldn't be a problem. Should I buy the game as it is right now, or wait for the expansion? Does the expansion have a different story, or just more characters and balancing?

 

[Compatriot Block]

Playing strictly against computer characters can actually make you worse, in the long run. You might learn to rely on strategies that only work because they are exploiting AI flaws.

Not to mention, Guy and Dudley aren't the most beginner-friendly characters. You'll be able to pick up most characters with enough work, but at this point you should be learning fundamentals primarily.

Personally I recommend Ryu, Cody and Balrog(the last one only if you like charge characters, which I do not). Ryu and Balrog can teach you stuff like spacing, and Ryu especially can teach you anti-airs and spacing fireballs. Cody can teach you some easy links (linking together moves, which is different than canceling them into a special), but his poor wake-up options means you'll be forced to learn to block well, which is especially important in a game like Street Fighter 4.

What exactly is it about Dudley and Guy that makes them poor choices for beginners? I'd like to know what traits to take into account when picking characters in other fighting games.

I'm not an expert with either character, so understand that a lot of what I know about them is secondhand from their players.

Guy is just an odd character to play, and his execution isn't easy at all. He can be incredibly annoying to fight, but it requires more dedication than other characters.

Dudley can hit like a truck, but he has poor wakeup options and virtually no great footsies moves, so he has a hard time getting in against a competent opponent.

Something you'll find common in Street Fighter 4 is that most of the characters are good or great when you look at them in a vacuum, but their strengths aren't in the right places to succeed against a lot of the cast. Street Fighter puts a lot of emphasis on wakeup games and mid-range poking, so character that struggle in those two areas often struggle in general, despite their other strengths.

What this means is most of the cast can be successful, but what makes the difference between a "good" character and a "bad" one is the relative amount of work you need to do to make them shine.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Playing strictly against computer characters can actually make you worse, in the long run. You might learn to rely on strategies that only work because they are exploiting AI flaws.

Not to mention, Guy and Dudley aren't the most beginner-friendly characters. You'll be able to pick up most characters with enough work, but at this point you should be learning fundamentals primarily.

Personally I recommend Ryu, Cody and Balrog(the last one only if you like charge characters, which I do not). Ryu and Balrog can teach you stuff like spacing, and Ryu especially can teach you anti-airs and spacing fireballs. Cody can teach you some easy links (linking together moves, which is different than canceling them into a special), but his poor wake-up options means you'll be forced to learn to block well, which is especially important in a game like Street Fighter 4.

What exactly is it about Dudley and Guy that makes them poor choices for beginners? I'd like to know what traits to take into account when picking characters in other fighting games.

As a beginner, there are probably two character archetypes you may want to avoid at first. First type is the execution heavy combo based character. Dudley pretty squarely fits into this type. He doesn't really have a balanced set of tools and options so it's easier for him to be shut down by an opponent if you don't already have an advanced knowledge the game. He relies largely upon you really getting into his specific quirks and how to execute "fancy stuff" to be successful.

The second archetype to avoid would be the mix-up heavy character. Guy falls mostly into this type but has some elements of the execution heavy type as well. Put simply, playing well with a mix-up heavy character means that you've to some extent moved beyond playing the game and are instead playing your opponent. You already know what your character can/should do in many situations against many characters and, perhaps more importantly, you know that your opponents know this too. If your opponent isn't trained to expect certain responses to certain situations, and if you don't have the experience in the game to train them, then mix-ups don't really work. Sure you might get some wins but you're not actually learning how to play the game. Another characteristic to mix-up heavy characters that makes them poor for beginners is that they will often have more complex movement options or alternate stances to aid in them being tricky and unpredictable. As a beginner, you will have enough on your plate without needing to master command dashes, stance switches, alternate move sets in different stances, etc. And the final thing that makes mix-up characters poor for beginners is that they don't work against the AI. Zoners, rushdowners, comboers, etc. can all be used and learned to some extent by just playing against the AI even if it's not the optimal way to learn. Mix-ups, however, don't work against the AI since you can't actually train the AI to expect certain moves or exploit tendencies. There's really no way to learn what's important/good/bad/etc. outside of what the AI lets itself get hit by.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

First, forget about combos and learn your character (I only play one or two characters in any fighting game, Mu-12 represent) combos mean nothing if you don't know how to get in and hit the guy first.

What is your character's range? Does she have any projectiles? Invincibility frames to exploit? How good are her normals? What is horribly unsafe? What can you cancel? For example you cancel Mu-12's insanely unsafe forward heavy into gun placement if it hits while blocking but straight whiffs you can't. Just press buttons/mash your dash while doing her moves you'll figure it out

Yes 99% of my characters end up being female, how could you tell? Male characters are so boring for some reason... Aside from our lord and saviour Hazama of course.

[sub][sub] Hi, i'm Ragna! I'm a very unique main anime character with a sword! This is my brother Jin who is also a main anime character with a sword![/sub][/sub]

Learn to input your supers perfectly since they're going to be important. Especially if you have a multi stage super like BlazBlue's Makoto. You can freaking drop Particle Flare after you've already hit it and the damage disappears...

Oh and you might want to pick up the newest addition(s) to BlazBlue. Either BlazBlue Continuum Shift: Extend or Chrono Phantasma which is the very newest one (PS3 only though otherwise I would already be playing it T_T)

The online will end up being dead by the time I get it, I can feel it. At least PS3s are relatively cheap after the PS4 release I suppose.

I have a question about the Blazblue franchise. I'm playing Calamity Trigger, and I like the mechanics, but do the sequels use the same story structure? These conditions for unlocking all the different endings are starting to annoy me. It doesn't even seem like a challenge, since the story mode fights are so easy.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

Playing strictly against computer characters can actually make you worse, in the long run. You might learn to rely on strategies that only work because they are exploiting AI flaws.

Not to mention, Guy and Dudley aren't the most beginner-friendly characters. You'll be able to pick up most characters with enough work, but at this point you should be learning fundamentals primarily.

Personally I recommend Ryu, Cody and Balrog(the last one only if you like charge characters, which I do not). Ryu and Balrog can teach you stuff like spacing, and Ryu especially can teach you anti-airs and spacing fireballs. Cody can teach you some easy links (linking together moves, which is different than canceling them into a special), but his poor wake-up options means you'll be forced to learn to block well, which is especially important in a game like Street Fighter 4.

What exactly is it about Dudley and Guy that makes them poor choices for beginners? I'd like to know what traits to take into account when picking characters in other fighting games.

As a beginner, there are probably two character archetypes you may want to avoid at first. First type is the execution heavy combo based character. Dudley pretty squarely fits into this type. He doesn't really have a balanced set of tools and options so it's easier for him to be shut down by an opponent if you don't already have an advanced knowledge the game. He relies largely upon you really getting into his specific quirks and how to execute "fancy stuff" to be successful.

The second archetype to avoid would be the mix-up heavy character. Guy falls mostly into this type but has some elements of the execution heavy type as well. Put simply, playing well with a mix-up heavy character means that you've to some extent moved beyond playing the game and are instead playing your opponent. You already know what your character can/should do in many situations against many characters and, perhaps more importantly, you know that your opponents know this too. If your opponent isn't trained to expect certain responses to certain situations, and if you don't have the experience in the game to train them, then mix-ups don't really work. Sure you might get some wins but you're not actually learning how to play the game. Another characteristic to mix-up heavy characters that makes them poor for beginners is that they will often have more complex movement options or alternate stances to aid in them being tricky and unpredictable. As a beginner, you will have enough on your plate without needing to master command dashes, stance switches, alternate move sets in different stances, etc. And the final thing that makes mix-up characters poor for beginners is that they don't work against the AI. Zoners, rushdowners, comboers, etc. can all be used and learned to some extent by just playing against the AI even if it's not the optimal way to learn. Mix-ups, however, don't work against the AI since you can't actually train the AI to expect certain moves or exploit tendencies. There's really no way to learn what's important/good/bad/etc. outside of what the AI lets itself get hit by.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it. I'm still determined to learn how to use Dudley effectively (I love his overall design and mannerisms, and I'm starting to get good with his feints), but I see now why mix-up bases characters are beyond my skill level. Can you think of any other characters good to start with besides the ones you've already mentioned?

 

[StriderShinryu]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it. I'm still determined to learn how to use Dudley effectively (I love his overall design and mannerisms, and I'm starting to get good with his feints), but I see now why mix-up bases characters are beyond my skill level. Can you think of any other characters good to start with besides the ones you've already mentioned?

If you're into Dudley, I would suggest checking out videos of Team PIE's Smug. He's pretty much the definitive Dudley player right now.

Other characters to try out? Hmmm...
Ryu's the standard and is actually a very solid character even at high levels of play.
Balrog (aka Boxer) is pretty good option if you're looking at checking out a charge character (Guile is good as well, and a personal favourite, but he's still a fireball/anti-air character at heart)
Vega (aka Claw) is good if you're interested in seeing what a character can do if they rely mainly on being very mobile and poking their way to victory
Zangief is good if you want to try a grappler (you may not like the style but it's extremely important to learn how they work)
Fei Long is good if you want to try out a very balanced character that has all of the tools to win but needs a slightly deft hand to play properly.

The only way to be good in fighting games is to use a dirty strat, block and use one move/combo that works the quickest and you're good

Absolutely! Until you run into an opponent that has half a brain and destroys you because you never actually learned how to play.

 

[Hazy]

I'd recommend you learn Ryu if you're still very new, because he is a great starter to learn the fundamentals with, and really, the fundamentals will take you a long way in this game. That isn't to say you absolutely have to, but his moves are timeless, very easy to memorize, and he's an all-around solid fighter (which will keep you from getting bodied.) There are some good starting level charge characters (Balrog, Guile, Chun-li) but a lot of new players might not be able to get those down as easily so I just steer them towards Ryu when they're undecided.

Matt Sciar's video helped me out a lot when I first got started.

Tips? Practice. Practice. Practice. Then get a buddy to fight with and practice some more. Make sure you can get your moves out every time. Both sides. Make sure you can chain them together, because your opponent is not going to just stand there and take it. I didn't see online until at least a month of solid practice. I definitely advise getting some friends to spar with you.

As for games that are great for beginners, I HIGHLY recommend Skullgirls. It has one of the best tutorials I have ever seen and does a great job of familiarizing you with concepts that span across most 2D fighting games.

Also, just an aside, if you happen to look into buying a Fight Stick, be ready to relearn a lot of your movements if you've never fought with one before. And don't skimp -- I would advise not looking at one for under $100.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

I'd recommend you learn Ryu if you're still very new, because he is a great starter to learn the fundamentals with, and really, the fundamentals will take you a long way in this game. That isn't to say you absolutely have to, but his moves are timeless, very easy to memorize, and he's an all-around solid fighter (which will keep you from getting bodied.) There are some good starting level charge characters (Balrog, Guile, Chun-li) but a lot of new players might not be able to get those down as easily so I just steer them towards Ryu when they're undecided.

Matt Sciar's video helped me out a lot when I first got started.

Tips? Practice. Practice. Practice. Then get a buddy to fight with and practice some more. Make sure you can get your moves out every time. Both sides. Make sure you can chain them together, because your opponent is not going to just stand there and take it. I didn't see online until at least a month of solid practice. I definitely advise getting some friends to spar with you.

As for games that are great for beginners, I HIGHLY recommend Skullgirls. It has one of the best tutorials I have ever seen and does a great job of familiarizing you with concepts that span across most 2D fighting games.

Also, just an aside, if you happen to look into buying a Fight Stick, be ready to relearn a lot of your movements if you've never fought with one before. And don't skimp -- I would advise not looking at one for under $100.

In regards to fighting sticks, do you know of any good ones that would work for both a PC and a PS3? I'd rather not buy two if I can avoid it.

On an unrelated note: Hurray, my 1,000th post!

 

[Storm Dragon]

My general strategy for fighting games is "Press many buttons for great victory"

 

[Hazy]

In regards to fighting sticks, do you know of any good ones that would work for both a PC and a PS3? I'd rather not buy two if I can avoid it.

On an unrelated note: Hurray, my 1,000th post!

Hori's Real Arcade Pro V3 SA KAI and the Qanba Q4 both come highly recommended by me. The Q4 can actually play on all 3 systems and comes dual modded, so that's the greater of the two if you ask me.

A lot of people also sing praise of the Madcatz Fightstick Pro (which goes on sale for $100 during the FGC tournament) as it's apparently their diamond in the rough.

Pretty much, you want a stick with all Sanwa parts.

 

[RJ 17]

The best tip that I can give: get good as Ken, he's the best character. =P

Seriously though, I've seen some people suggesting trying out Marvel vs Capcom...I'd recommend against it. It's not exactly forgiving towards people who aren't experienced with fighting games. There's a LOT to learn about it to get even decent at the game. Personally I'd suggest Dead or Alive, and no...not for the reason you're thinking. Personally I enjoy the fight mechanics in the DoA series more than anything else due to it's simplicity (I've never been huge into the fighting genre myself). Hit beats Throw, Throw beats Counter, Counter beats Hit. That's pretty much all you have to know. Now each character has their own combos and special moves and such, but in general every attack boils down to either a hit, a throw, or a counter.

 

[StriderShinryu]

In regards to fighting sticks, do you know of any good ones that would work for both a PC and a PS3? I'd rather not buy two if I can avoid it.

On an unrelated note: Hurray, my 1,000th post!

Hori's Real Arcade Pro V3 SA KAI and the Qanba Q4 both come highly recommended by me. The Q4 can actually play on all 3 systems and comes dual modded, so that's the greater of the two if you ask me.

A lot of people also sing praise of the Madcatz Fightstick Pro (which goes on sale for $100 during the FGC tournament) as it's apparently their diamond in the rough.

Pretty much, you want a stick with all Sanwa parts.

This is largely very good advice, though I would caution against thinking that you need an arcade stick to play, especially at the beginner level. Some of the top players in a variety of fighting games play on pad. It used to be that most gameplay was found in arcades and so everyone basically had to play on stick or at least know how to play on stick but that's no longer the case. Even if you do end up going to tournaments or just get in with a local group, everyone basically brings their stick/pad of choice anyway.

Note that I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't buy a stick, I'm just saying that it really isn't necessary unless you absolutely want to. It all comes down to what you're most comfortable with. (for reference, I actually tend to use both. I prefer playing on stick for 2D games but I prefer pad for 3D games)

 

[Hazy]

In regards to fighting sticks, do you know of any good ones that would work for both a PC and a PS3? I'd rather not buy two if I can avoid it.

On an unrelated note: Hurray, my 1,000th post!

Hori's Real Arcade Pro V3 SA KAI and the Qanba Q4 both come highly recommended by me. The Q4 can actually play on all 3 systems and comes dual modded, so that's the greater of the two if you ask me.

A lot of people also sing praise of the Madcatz Fightstick Pro (which goes on sale for $100 during the FGC tournament) as it's apparently their diamond in the rough.

Pretty much, you want a stick with all Sanwa parts.

This is largely very good advice, though I would caution against thinking that you need an arcade stick to play, especially at the beginner level. Some of the top players in a variety of fighting games play on pad. It used to be that most gameplay was found in arcades and so everyone basically had to play on stick or at least know how to play on stick but that's no longer the case. Even if you do end up going to tournaments or just get in with a local group, everyone basically brings their stick/pad of choice anyway.

Note that I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't buy a stick, I'm just saying that it really isn't necessary unless you absolutely want to. It all comes down to what you're most comfortable with. (for reference, I actually tend to use both. I prefer playing on stick for 2D games but I prefer pad for 3D games)

Absolutely spot on. A stick will by no means make you go from a beginner to a pro. It should be done entirely out of comfort.

 

[The Wykydtron]

First, forget about combos and learn your character (I only play one or two characters in any fighting game, Mu-12 represent) combos mean nothing if you don't know how to get in and hit the guy first.

What is your character's range? Does she have any projectiles? Invincibility frames to exploit? How good are her normals? What is horribly unsafe? What can you cancel? For example you cancel Mu-12's insanely unsafe forward heavy into gun placement if it hits while blocking but straight whiffs you can't. Just press buttons/mash your dash while doing her moves you'll figure it out

Yes 99% of my characters end up being female, how could you tell? Male characters are so boring for some reason... Aside from our lord and saviour Hazama of course.

[sub][sub] Hi, i'm Ragna! I'm a very unique main anime character with a sword! This is my brother Jin who is also a main anime character with a sword![/sub][/sub]

Learn to input your supers perfectly since they're going to be important. Especially if you have a multi stage super like BlazBlue's Makoto. You can freaking drop Particle Flare after you've already hit it and the damage disappears...

Oh and you might want to pick up the newest addition(s) to BlazBlue. Either BlazBlue Continuum Shift: Extend or Chrono Phantasma which is the very newest one (PS3 only though otherwise I would already be playing it T_T)

The online will end up being dead by the time I get it, I can feel it. At least PS3s are relatively cheap after the PS4 release I suppose.

I have a question about the Blazblue franchise. I'm playing Calamity Trigger, and I like the mechanics, but do the sequels use the same story structure? These conditions for unlocking all the different endings are starting to annoy me. It doesn't even seem like a challenge, since the story mode fights are so easy.

CSEX has individual routes per character along with a recap of Calamity Trigger to start with. You get dialogue paths towards the neutral, bad and comedy endings (seriously, the comedy endings are funny) I never got far with CT either, you need a flowchart to get to the true ending. I've heard you need to lose some on purpose, win with a Distortion and other obscure stuff.

I believe Chrono Phantasma is more linear? At least it's not as sprawling as CSEX because the Continuum Shift has ended by that point so time has stablised or whatever. Nobody said BB's story mechanics were simple. Can you beat the challenge to make sense of where Hazama makes a speech towards the end of everyone's routes and smashes all the plot words together at once? So I stuck the Azure into her Murokumo Unit until she acquires her Kisaragi from the Cauldron.



I'm still dismayed that Mu-12 never had a route to herself. So what if she's the final boss? She needs more love.

 

[hermes]

It would seem like you have two of the first requirements covered:
- Find a character that you enjoy using...
- Practice the moves in practice mode or arcade against the computer.

Now that you have made that, try playing with other people. Online is great because it gives you the chance to play against other people that use different playstyles. If you fight against a handful of friends, you will get used to their styles. Playing against many random people is the best way to learn to adapt to counter unfamiliar styles.

Don't be afraid to lose. You will lose a lot, but, ideally, you will learn something new with each match, and your style will get better because of it.

Finally, you can search online for strategies (http://forums.shoryuken.com/ is a good source), but don't venture into it until you become fairly familiar with the game and the character...

 

[Maximum Bert]

Thanks for the info. I live in the US, so their odd European release policies shouldn't be a problem. Should I buy the game as it is right now, or wait for the expansion? Does the expansion have a different story, or just more characters and balancing?

Np the story is canon and is continuing in the sequel whether they will do what they did with Blazblue and have a condensed version of the (P4A) story or maybe even the original story in full along the new continued story that can be accessed is unknown to me. If you can find the game for a reasonable price (shouldnt be hard) I would get the version out now and then if you like it or want to carry on with the story you can get the sequel coming out soon.

The expansion also has new characters and balancing and shadow versions of all the characters (except Shadow Labrys probably). The game really gets the presentation right the art direction is also great and it actually works without feeling contrived. Its an odd spinoff for a series usually this sort of thing is just done for the hell of it with little effort put into the hows and whys but here they went the extra mile and it feels like the game and story directly compliment the other.