To all members of the Escapist: Please help us improve this site

[Spartan Bannana]

1 WHAT actions do you believe have a detrimental effect on the community yet cannot be overseen by moderators?
Alright, to the 1) WHAT I believe the basic thing that get's a community down (internet or real life) is simple negativity, on both Senior and New members alike. New members will come in, not prepared for the Escapist's manner, and just do as they did in other less civil forums. Though a few older members may give friendly advise, alot of senior and middle (beat writers, copy clerks, etc.) will respond more hostile, perhaps in anger of the apparent disrespect to our community, or perhaps out of fear that a spammer or troll has invaded. Then the new guy, unaware of the mistake he made, assumes he's being chastized for no reason and thus will respond with more hostility.

You know what? Thank you. You're helping me understand the newcomer psyche, as well as stating my opinion better than I did in this part:

New members will come in, not prepared for the Escapist's manner, and just do as they did in other less civil forums. Though a few older members may give friendly advise, alot of senior and middle (beat writers, copy clerks, etc.) will respond more hostile, perhaps in anger of the apparent disrespect to our community, or perhaps out of fear that a spammer or troll has invaded.

Explain to me why you think my comment was directed at you? Are you one of the people who throws a hissy fit when there are more than two errors in a post?

As I have stated, I am not a grammar Nazi, I just don't like it when I get cussed out/insulted for stating an opinion or trying to help.

If you're not an overzealous spelling/grammar Nazi then my post had absolutely nothing to do with you. I don't really see how you would be lead to think it does, either.

You were insulting the members trying to help you, at least that's what it looked like to me.

Also, you sir, win a cookie, for intelligently debating rather than slinging insults and curses at me.

Oh please, you're only saying that because he was defending you.
Try to "intelligently debate" with me instead of running away from the argument.

I've tried in IRC, you just kept slinging insults, I'm not even going to delve even further into that, and instead, ignore whatever you say about me.

 

[Inverse Skies]

However, the Best way to stop a problem is to Prevent it from happening in the first place. SO, I propose an interesting idea:
LET'S MAKE A ESCAPIST INTRO-VIDEO!
For any comic genius or film-maker out in Escapist land, why not have a humorous video introducing new members to this site, giving hints and asking for cooperation in the forums. But it would also be funny, so they will acctually want to watch it.

That's not to bad an idea. I'm not sure how many new users would watch it (probably more than read the forum posting guidelines page) but that's clever in it's own right.

And finally for 3) another point I want to bring up is on the Repeated Threads Complaint. Now, I understand the hate that can arise when a thread is being spammed or repeated within a day. But I'll get complaints on threads I've made, saying that they have been repeated. Now, most of my threads have had good respones, people on them seem to have a good time, and though I did use the search bar, I would find nothing on the thread I created.
I try to make good threads. If I even have the ink-lying of a doubt that it's been done before, I won't post it. If it has been (but it's been dead for months) then I will try to try to make a new one with new rules and new variations, so that people can have the same fun but with a new experiance. So, if a thread has been done before but is liked and posted with good blessings, does it matter if it's been done before?

When it gets to the stage where people have to say 'I searched for a repeat thread and found nothing' at the start of their posts because they're afraid of what people might say that's when we know we have a problem.

 

[DirkGently]

Spelling adn grammar do matter

Irony!

And another thing, I think I phrased my other post wrong: They don't need to respect OLDER members specifically, they need to respect the people trying to help them in GENERAL.

Respect is earned, never given. Respect is also lost, too. Don't forget that.

I see no reason why people should lose respect for me, you know why?
Because this is a forum. A forum is a place where people state opinions and have debates, not sling petty insults at just because they don't agree.

I'm talking about IRC. taking stabs and correcting other people,

My point is, when I come to a new forum, I'm not going to hand out respect based on somebody's post count or join date. People join and if they don't see the new members making great posts, just taking stabs at the new members and correcting them, they're going to assume you're just being a pompous ass. Especially when you go about ragging on all the new members for not respecting when they're just going "Who the hell is this guy? And why is he grouping me in with all the new forum members, and saying we're jerks? God this guy is an ass."

 

[Spartan Bannana]

And finally for 3) another point I want to bring up is on the Repeated Threads Complaint. Now, I understand the hate that can arise when a thread is being spammed or repeated within a day. But I'll get complaints on threads I've made, saying that they have been repeated. Now, most of my threads have had good respones, people on them seem to have a good time, and though I did use the search bar, I would find nothing on the thread I created.
I try to make good threads. If I even have the ink-lying of a doubt that it's been done before, I won't post it. If it has been (but it's been dead for months) then I will try to try to make a new one with new rules and new variations, so that people can have the same fun but with a new experiance. So, if a thread has been done before but is liked and posted with good blessings, does it matter if it's been done before?

When it gets to the stage where people have to say 'I searched for a repeat thread and found nothing' at the start of their posts because they're afraid of what people might say that's when we know we have a problem.

The search function is fucked, and the Escapist does nothing to fix it, and because of this, we sometimes have to accept that people who made a repeat thread did not know it was one.

However, the Best way to stop a problem is to Prevent it from happening in the first place. SO, I propose an interesting idea:
LET'S MAKE A ESCAPIST INTRO-VIDEO!
For any comic genius or film-maker out in Escapist land, why not have a humorous video introducing new members to this site, giving hints and asking for cooperation in the forums. But it would also be funny, so they will acctually want to watch it.

I actually did that while back with a, frankly, shitty movie making tool. The mods rejected it though, even though it went over most of main points in the guidelines.

 

[Inverse Skies]

It's not about nothing to be done per se, it's about choosing the right actions for it.
I did say we need to adapt, but enforcing stuff as "community guidelines" is pointless.

And also, like I said, popularity lowers the standard. This is something which you cannot avoid.

Just look at the mainstream games for example. The "haloz" and the "gearz" look at what kind of people they attract.

I'm not saying all of the people which play those games are bad, but they do attract some of the lowest common denominators.

True... I'm just thinking of the sort of patronage that major sporting clubs attract...

So what would you do to adapt? Simply ignore the spamming of repeat threads? Ignore the people who think that intelligent debate involves swearing and personal attacks on peoples ideals and beliefs rather than deconstructing the other persons argument?

There must be something we can do to preserve the integrity of the site, even if you believe a set of community guidelines are not the way we should go about it.

 

[Inverse Skies]

I actually did that while back with a, frankly, shitty movie making tool. The mods rejected it though, even though it went over most of main points in the guidelines.

Prehaps it's gotten to the stage because of the massive influx of new members that we need to consider something along those lines?

 

[Gitsnik]

So let me get this straight, if I see someone making a racial joke against black people, and if I do get that joke but frown on it, I'm racist too?
...
I do not need to be a chef to know if my steak tastes well or not.
As I do not need to be a racist or a bigot to know racism or bigotry.

No but you've got your opinion on it, and are thus prejudiced and bigoted against racists and/or bigots. The point being that nobody is without.

I'm afraid you're not making much sense good sir.

That's ok, happens often enough

The old pretentious elitist twats are the ones who built this site, would you begrudge ol' Pablo for getting shitty at current "modern, abstract" art.

Nope. They aren't.

Purple Rain is not elitist.
Mobius is not elitist.
Ultrajoe is not elitist.

I fail to see where you are going with this.

Using individual examples doesn't help a generalisation argument, my point was that the people who made the site elitist are going to be the older ones, purely because you can't just show up and put your way of doing things on the site if you've never been there before.

Lucky that people like Mobius aren't elitist, the ones who aren't are a lot more tolerant.

Me, I'm elitist though I tend to be more concerned with watching my reported/banned status than ragging on people doing stupid things in the forum. Others gun for badges, I'm looking for a perfect record.

 

[Lord_Panzer]

Too bad Eggo got banned...for reasons unbeknownst to me.

It really was only a matter of time though.

As for me right now, I'm off to bed. Goodnight folks.

He was banned because the mods stopped giving him 'XX' number of chances. At least that's what the consensus is.

It's more like The Escapist was Star Trek:TNG and the Mods were The Continuum, and Eggo was Q, torturing the less evolved but finally kicked out.

I...kinda miss watching that.

He knew how to entertain, I'll give him that. But even when I was on his side he got on my nerves.

 

[Spartan Bannana]

My point is, when I come to a new forum, I'm not going to hand out respect based on somebody's post count or join date. People join and if they don't see the new members making great posts, just taking stabs at the new members and correcting them, they're going to assume you're just being a pompous ass. Especially when you go about ragging on all the new members for not respecting when they're just going "Who the hell is this guy? And why is he grouping me in with all the new forum members, and saying we're jerks? God this guy is an ass."

I see what you mean, but to be fair, their responses to me were still unjustifiably rude.
One more thing, my opinion is difficult to put into words, and how I've been phrasing it makes me sound like a total douche, and I apologize for that.
Also, when I WAS still trying to help the new members, and I was speaking calmly and politely to them, not mentioning any of the things I have said here, they still responded rudely to someone who was just trying to help.

You know what, I'm going to try one more time to rephrase what I have been saying:
I find that when a new member refuses help from someone who knows more than them, it is extremely rude, and the way many of the new members have been refusing help is unacceptable in my eyes.

 

[Citrus]

You were insulting the members trying to help you, at least that's what it looked like to me.

Does it look like I have issues with spelling and grammar? Just because I'm complaining about it doesn't mean it's happened to me. It seems to me that you should take the time to be sure before accusing somebody of insulting you.

And again, I really want to know: what makes you think that registering at any time in 2008 makes you an old member? That's a serious question, because I don't know when these forums were established.

 

[Handofpwn]

SNIP

3. ARE there any other points you would care the mention on this topic?
Yes. New members: Please, please, please respect the older members, every suggestion we make is not an insult, and so don't shout profane suggestions at us when we were just trying to help.
Then again, trying to help must fall to someone else's hands, I've been worn down with the disrespect.

I have a question, though. How do we define senior members? Post count? Join date? I have been here since august 2008 and consider myself well versed in the ways of the escapist and yet I only have around 400 posts at the moment. Meanwhile we see people who have been here for around 2 months that have already gone gonzo. How do we differentiate? I must know.

 

[Aschenkatza]

I love it when people are Grammar Nazi's.
"now for semoehtnig itnresitmg...

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt! tahts so cool!"

ANYWAY:
I am glad we don't have a delete feature, because it makes me double, no Triple check whatever I'm about to post.

Edit: Just in case people DON'T GET IT. The above quote IS MEANT TO HAVE SPELLING ERRORS.

 

[Gitsnik]

I find that when a new member refuses help from someone who knows more than them, it is extremely rude, and the way many of the new members have been refusing help is unacceptable in my eyes.

Further, the feeling that because they are a member of the site precludes their capability to insult whoever they like because said individual hasn't "earned" their respect is something that should be culled out of anybody. Pardon the generalisation (The Spartan is fitting into this group) but it tends to be the individuals who are physically younger who act this way. Once you work in a corporate environment (i.e. not in a trade job, where having fun is common place and slinging shit at each other is ok) you learn how to act around people a lot better.

A lot of the "older" members of the site, the pretentious gits that they are (look! A pun!), seem to have worked in a form of corporation, and understand how to react. The Escapist reflect(s|ed) that, especially in the months before I first joined.

Edit: I define an "older" member as anyone who joined more than three months ago. Especially when I see people who joined in early Feb, 09 and already have 1,000 post counts and beyond.

To be honest, I don't notice post count or join date until I see something that my elitist self thinks is "stupid", then I look - this is where my opinion on "younger" members has come from - the continual looking at stupid posts with young join dates and high post counts.

 

[Inverse Skies]

I have a question, though. How do we define senior members? Post count? Join date? I have been here since august 2008 and consider myself well versed in the ways of the escapist and yet I only have around 400 posts at the moment. Meanwhile we see people who have been here for around 2 months that have already gone gonzo. How do we differentiate? I must know.

That's a good question... I guess it should be a combination of join date and number of posts, but I don't think I could give you an exact formula for it. Prehaps it's just best to use your discretion based on the quality of their posts?

 

[Spartan Bannana]

You were insulting the members trying to help you, at least that's what it looked like to me.

Does it look like I have issues with spelling and grammar? Just because I'm complaining about it doesn't mean it's happened to me. It seems to me that you should take the time to be sure before accusing somebody of insulting you.

And again, I really want to know: what makes you think that registering at any time in 2008 makes you an old member? That's a serious question, because I don't know when these forums were established.

Time moves fast on the Escapist, a 6 months here is basically like a year. There are definitely much older members than me out there, but most active older members are no more and 4-6 months older than me, and I accept and respect their suggestions. Also, I know the system I am about to talk about that I use is not perfect, but it is the system I use: If someone has been around for nearly a year, but has a post count of under 1000, I assume they either don't care or are a lurker. Sometimes I go off at lurkers, assuming they are the ones who don't care, and I am deeply apologetic about that, but it's what I do.

SNIP

3. ARE there any other points you would care the mention on this topic?
Yes. New members: Please, please, please respect the older members, every suggestion we make is not an insult, and so don't shout profane suggestions at us when we were just trying to help.
Then again, trying to help must fall to someone else's hands, I've been worn down with the disrespect.

I have a question, though. How do we define senior members? Post count? Join date? I have been here since august 2008 and consider myself well versed in the ways of the escapist and yet I only have around 400 posts at the moment. Meanwhile we see people who have been here for around 2 months that have already gone gonzo. How do we differentiate? I must know.

See my above quote response.