To the people saying that Live could be breached like Sony.

SlasherX

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This wouldn't happen. Not now. Not ever. The vast difference between Sony's resources and Microsoft's is one reason. There is also the fact that Live is a subsidiary of Microsoft. Microsoft, you know one of the largest corporations on Earth owned by the second richest man in the world that you would have to be brain dead to take on or try to hack. Theres also the fact that people knew that Sony's servers were insecure. You hear all these people saying they knew they were insecure, but you don't hear that about Live. And another reason is that the hated "You have to pay" feature makes it where their are a lot of people dedicated to it and gives it a higher priority within Microsoft than the PS3 has in Sony, because the Xbox and it's services ae a money maker unlike the PS3 which is still losing money on its consoles.

tl;dr Live wont be hacked

Now I wait, because this site has many more PS3 fanboys than Xbox.


Edit:

For those saying Sony is worth some 129 billion.

This is the American stock market but still MS is worth more than you guys are claiming.

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:SNE Sony: 28.19 billion

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:MSFT Microsoft: 218.16 billion

To those talking about the few accounts that are hacked like the security team guy.
I continue to see people say this. THESE ARE A FEW ACCOUNTS THAT WERE HACKED. Probably Brute force hacked. All you need is to know an an email and password that is it. It's not even that difficult I know a few people who can do it. All you have to do is recover the account and thats what they did didnt do much else. Sony had everything stolen, all the data everything. Now lets me say this

A few accounts on Xbox =/= All of PSN

And the Bill Gates thing
No one else will read this but I said Bill Gates to highlight the fact that Microsoft has a decent amount of money, not to show any other kind of thing just to highlight a point.

EDIT 2: I never said it was impossible to hack. Look I never said it. reread it now I'm waiting. Done? I said it wont happen. WONT NOT CANT WONT. That is what I said. And it probably won't, it is more secure than PSN and would be harder to hack.

EDIT 3: http://www.gamefront.com/the-dumbest-arguments-surrounding-the-psn-downtime-controversy/ covers most of these arguments.
 

Hubbe

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May 12, 2009
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Anything can be hacked.

Yes, Sony were idiots, but even if they had protected themselves, they could have been hacked.

Probably not as easily and fast, but they could still have been hacked.

There is no such thing as a foolproof system.
 

Radeonx

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Apr 26, 2009
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There's less discussion value here then people on the PSN security team!

Ba dum tsh.
 

RanD00M

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SlasherX said:
I would guess that Sony is a bigger company than Microsoft. You know they do more than games, they make appliances, TVs, sounds system ect.
Also saying that no one would hack Microsoft because it happens to be owned by Bill Gates makes no sense. Do you honestly think that hackers give a shit who owns a company they're hacking?

"because the Xbox and it's services ae a money maker unlike the PS3 which is still losing money on its consoles"
What year are you from anyway? Sony started churning a profit in early 2010. You know, A FUCKING YEAR AGO. Do you even follow gaming news?

And my last point will be that you have horrible grammar. A bad thing when trying to sound serious.
 

bpm195

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It's not a matter of Microsoft being bigger or better than Sony; it's just a case of Sony making stupid security choices resulting in a critical design flaw, while additionally giving the resources to make exploiting it possible.

Xbox Live is more secure in that it's a closed system where you can't do anything unless Microsoft says it's okay. The upside is that it's much harder to attack, the downside is Team Fortress 2.
 

Pearwood

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SlasherX said:
Now I wait, because this site has many more PS3 fanboys than Xbox.
It does? Loads of 360 owners here. And Sony is huge, if people are brave enough to take on Sony why would they think twice about Microsoft? And that monthly fee you pay doesn't necessarily all go on security, my guess would be a very small amount of it ever goes on anything that directly benefits the customers.
 

disturbed_one

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Y U MAD BRO?

It seems to me like you're some sort of an Xbox fan. But have you noticed that Sony is also a big corporation. Money doesn't matter really, it's who hackers are annoyed with, or if there is some sort of long term goal for them. Maybe it was Microsoft who paid hackers to do that(because I seriously doubt anyone in m$ would know how to do that ;) ). There is a lot we don't know, corporate espionage and stuff like that. Who knows what's really happening behind the scenes, and who can profit from the whole situation. And maybe it's just those guys from /b/...
 

Spencer Petersen

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I can personally attest that my credit card information was stolen by an identity theif when I used it to open a Live account. It may not be 25 million people, but there are definately people who hack credit card numbers through Xbox Live.
 

Kpt._Rob

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Apr 22, 2009
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I do agree that I don't think Live is likely to be hacked, though I also think the OP has been a little bit arrogant here. I actually made the same point to one of my friends the other day, that I really hoped that the fees I was paying into XBL were going into security and stuff like that, and I do think that's a legitimate point. That said, it's not like XBL is unbreachable.

The other advantage us Live users have, is that as the story of the PSN hack has come more and more to light, it seems like it actually does have something to do with Anonymous' campaign against Sony. While the "decentralized head" of Anonymous may have decided that it did not want to pursue an in depth hack campaign against Sony, it seems like some members had noticed the vulnerability before that happened, and decided to go ahead with the attack. That is to say that in part the PSN hack happened because Sony had engendered the ire of some of best hackers around. Microsoft doesn't seem to have garnered this attention, but that's not to say that if they managed to piss off Anonymous the same sort of thing couldn't happen.

Finally, I imagine that both Sony and Microsoft have been beefing up security since the attack. Sony for obvious reasons, and Microsoft because they may have feared the same. Microsoft has a big advantage here in that they haven't just lost a lot of money (as Sony has because of the attack), and they do have the revenue from XBL to further bolster security. I imagine both systems are now much harder to breach, and that means that it's unlikely either would be attacked, and probably even less likely that Live would be.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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RanD00M said:
I would guess that Sony is a bigger company than Microsoft. You know they do more than games, they make appliances, TVs, sounds system ect.
Also saying that no one would hack Microsoft because it happens to be owned by Bill Gates makes no sense. Do you honestly think that hackers give a shit who owns a company they're hacking?
I don't think that's the point the TC was trying to make. Microsoft makes operating systems, server software, and stuff like that too. Yeah, Sony makes TVs and sound systems. That doesn't give them expertise in online security, though. Microsoft does have experience in that because they make software that needs security and sometimes they make the security too.

Does that mean Xbox Live can't be hacked? No. It just makes for a reasonable assumption that Microsoft probably has better security for Xbox Live's servers than the security Sony previously had for Playstation Network's servers. Assuming that Xbox Live will never get hacked is still quite unreasonable, though.
 

rdiggs

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Aug 14, 2009
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I agree with bpm. Closed systems are almost technically unhackable but anything can be broken given time or interest. Also Windows is hacked constantly by something as simple as a pop-up from your browser which helps push the point that open systems will be easily hacked and Windows is the flagship program from Microsoft. Having a closed system that you have to pay for means that if anyone did hack Live then they would have to pay for the opportunity and will potentially be caught.

So yes, servers insecure and Sony didn't tell us right away. Those are two things that were poorly handled and have put so very many people at risk. One thing that keeps getting me though is that the attack happened on the 19th, the same time Portal 2 came out. Suddenly our open system can now connect to an even greater system thanks to Steam. This is an idea that should expand gaming in general as more systems interact but I feel like opening up this way created an even greater chance of attack. If nothing else I feel like this is an interesting coincidence.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
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SlasherX said:
Now I wait, because this site has many more PS3 fanboys than Xbox.
Blatant flame bait there, and it's wrong anyway. There are pretty much equal amounts of fans of each console on the site.
 

Nmil-ek

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Dec 16, 2008
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Remember that one autistic guy from britain that managed to hack into the American militarys systems and NASA from a regular old house computer and he claimed he was just searching for UFO evidence.

Yeah ANY system can be compramised if you know what you're doing power and money mean nothing in specialist fields and the best guy's always seem to be fringe and not paid when it comes to hacking.

Edit: Gary McKinnon thta was the blokes name.
 

Kpt._Rob

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Apr 22, 2009
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Spencer Petersen said:
I can personally attest that my credit card information was stolen by an identity theif when I used it to open a Live account. It may not be 25 million people, but there are definately people who hack credit card numbers through Xbox Live.
I don't mean to call you out here, but do you have solid evidence to show that it was stolen as a result of signing up for Live? People become victims of identity theft all the time, and statistically it's highly probable that there are people out there who were victimized right around the same time as they signed up for live. That is to say that correlation does not show causation.

Did you perform a legitimate investigation which showed that your card information was stolen through XBL? Or is it just the case that it was stolen in a time which incidentally happened to be close to when you signed up for Live and you assumed it was stolen through XBL?

I don't mean to say that it couldn't happen, just that it seems more likely to me that it was some vulnerability in your own network, or that you got victimized through some other source. I would think that if you had actually had your information stolen through XBL there would be more people who had their information stolen in the same way, and it would be a bigger story.

The other way to phrase that question is "why would hackers only target you if they had the capability to hack anyone through XBL?"
 

SlasherX

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Sapient Pearwood said:
SlasherX said:
Now I wait, because this site has many more PS3 fanboys than Xbox.
It does? Loads of 360 owners here. And Sony is huge, if people are brave enough to take on Sony why would they think twice about Microsoft? And that monthly fee you pay doesn't necessarily all go on security, my guess would be a very small amount of it ever goes on anything that directly benefits the customers.
The thing I was trying to say is that Microsoft is a larger corporation by a pretty substantial margin and that there was still more money focused on security and Live in general than what is on the PSN. And let me say something. While it is probably a pretty even split of console ownership (maybe leaning more towards the 360 since its just been bought more) the PS3 fanboys scream and yell and act like general idiots and have petty comebacks like the guy that posted before you who criticized my grammar, so they are more annoying and will shit up a thread more so than 360 fanboys.
 

thelonewolf266

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I own an Xbox I think live is a lot better than PSN even before the breach but i also think PlayStation has features that are better than Xbox even considering this I think the Xbox is better however I still think you are an idiot if you think it couldn't be hacked just because Microsoft is rich.Sony is worth at least $31.741 billion probably a lot more, that didn't stop them from being hacked.The simple fact is that no Network is one hundred percent secure.
 

Spudgun Man

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If someone can create something it only takes someone else to destroy it, nothing is infalliable.
 

Kune35

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Kpt._Rob said:
Spencer Petersen said:
I can personally attest that my credit card information was stolen by an identity theif when I used it to open a Live account. It may not be 25 million people, but there are definately people who hack credit card numbers through Xbox Live.
I don't mean to call you out here, but do you have solid evidence to show that it was stolen as a result of signing up for Live? People become victims of identity theft all the time, and statistically it's highly probable that there are people out there who were victimized right around the same time as they signed up for live. That is to say that correlation does not show causation.

Did you perform a legitimate investigation which showed that your card information was stolen through XBL? Or is it just the case that it was stolen in a time which incidentally happened to be close to when you signed up for Live and you assumed it was stolen through XBL?

I don't mean to say that it couldn't happen, just that it seems more likely to me that it was some vulnerability in your own network, or that you got victimized through some other source. I would think that if you had actually had your information stolen through XBL there would be more people who had their information stolen in the same way, and it would be a bigger story.

The other way to phrase that question is "why would hackers only target you if they had the capability to hack anyone through XBL?"
Actually if you have a firm grasp of logic and common sense, the fact his card became compromised right when he signed up for XBL is proof that it is a problem local to him and not of the XBL service being hacked.


Being keylogged or having data intercepted over a wireless connection = simple hack/virus.

XBL being hacked to steal account numbers in real time as they sign up = incredibly complicated hack. In fact, why steal incoming signees and not just grab a million account numbers from the existing database?


I bet this guy blames Blizzard for his WoW account being hacked instead of changing his email password or scanning for a keylogger.
 

Kune35

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thelonewolf266 said:
I own an Xbox I think live is a lot better than PSN even before the breach but i also think PlayStation has features that are better than Xbox even considering this I think the Xbox is better however I still think you are an idiot if you think it couldn't be hacked just because Microsoft is rich.Sony is worth at least $31.741 billion probably a lot more, that didn't stop them from being hacked.The simple fact is that no Network is one hundred percent secure.
You know what WOULD have stopped PSN from being hacked? Having a firewall, or up to date security software. Sure, its not IMPOSSIBLE for XBL to be hacked, but it is almost infinitely more difficult since they actually use basic system security measures.