To the people saying that Live could be breached like Sony.

[RA92]

(2) Have you ever heard of Microsoft Internet Explorer, or Microsoft Windows Vista? Apple may not have the moolah that Micro has, but Mac owners don't have the spyware, malware and virus concerns that every other computer-owning person has. Because it's better software.

I just want to point out that this is actualy a croc of bs. check CanSacWest security conferance notes of the past. Linux, Mac, and Windows hack contest. guess wich dropped first.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/vista-breached-linux-remains-unbeaten-in-hacking-contest-752

I'd like to add a bit to JET1971's post. Quoting myself...

Macs have no virus? Bullshit. Hell, Win7 is <url=http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10444561-245.html>more heavily secured than Macs.



Macs are safer only because of a small market share and thus lower chances of malware directed at them. But at the end of the day, Win7 is more secure... Excerpts from the article:



Halvar Flake, head of research and CEO of Zynamics: "General state of affairs: Vista/Win7 has more extensive countermeasures against attacks and a codebase with presumably fewer security issues.

Rich Mogull, CEO, Securosis: Microsoft has done more in terms of its inherent security features than Apple has in the operating system.

Charlie Miller, a principal analyst at consultancy Independent Security Evaluators: Technologically speaking, PCs are a little more secure than Macs. Macs have a larger attack surface out of the box (Flash, Java, support for a million file formats, etc.) and lack some anti-exploitation technologies found in PCs like full ASLR [Address Space Layout Randomization]. This means Macs have more vulnerabilities and it's easier to turn a vulnerability into an exploit on the platform.

Tyler Reguly, senior security research engineer, nCircle: If you believe the hype and the flashy commercials the answer would be Mac. But if you take a look at the two platforms, and the mindsets of the companies behind them then the PC wins hands down. If you compare Windows 7 to Snow Leopard, then the simple winner is Windows 7. Microsoft brought in teams of security professionals to look at their code and find problems leading to a more secure product while Apple is often criticized for ignoring issues.

Saying that, the OP is obviously a clueless XBox fanboy.

 

[Doclector]

I wouldn't be so sure.

It'd be a hell of alot harder, but it can be hacked, definately, anything can.

 

[RoBi3.0]

Look here is a quote from his written testimony

"I have no information about what protections they had in place, although some
news reports indicate that Sony was running software that was badly out of date, and had
been warned about that risk."

Tell me how that equates to; Hey it is a fact that Sony was using outdated software and no firewall. Hell he even admits that he has no information about Sony's systems.

It doesn't. But there's no mention of internet forums, apache servers or firewalls here and all press reports mention these things so surely we're missing something in the written testimony. The options are there's a follow-up to this testimony or a vast conspiracy. Meanwhile this line from the same testimony is pretty damning:

My personal conclusion from reviews of reports in the press and discussions at professional meetings is that operators of these systems continue to run outmoded, flawed software, fail tofollow some basic good practices of security and privacy, and often have insufficient training or support.

And as for last last remark I have been playing the hell out of the Gears of War Beta and CoD:blackops on xbox live lately and in fact spend the majority of my gaming time playing WoW or DDO. So if this was a thread about how Blizzard or Turbine got hacked then you may have a point.

My sincerest apologies sir. *tip of the hat*

http://bitmob.com/articles/detective-work-reveals-psn-servers-up-to-date

 

[Macrobstar]

Well that can only mean one thing, xbox is more fun than PS3 and all that personal preference we had doesn't matter /sarcasm

 

[Azure-Supernova]

tl;dr Live wont be hacked.

Once [http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/view/17086/xbox-live-policy-directors-account-hacked/]
Twice [http://playsquad.commongate.com/post/Xbox_Live_hacked_accounts_stolen/]

Just two examples thanks to Google. It's a simple fact there: nothing is 100% hack proof. Even precious Xbox Live with its gold plated servers.

I continue to see people say this. THESE ARE A FEW ACCOUNTS THAT WERE HACKED. Probably Brute force hacked. All you need is to know an an email and password that is it. It's not even that difficult I know a few people who can do it. Sony had everything stolen, all the data everything. Now lets me say this


A few accounts on Xbox =/= All of PSN

These Sony fanboys

These Sony fanboys who primarily game on PC, gosh darn those.

Your point remains invalid. There was a reason Sony was slash dotted. Give someone a reason and I assure you that Live is just as vulnerable.

 

[Binerexis]

tl;dr Live wont be hacked.

Once [http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/view/17086/xbox-live-policy-directors-account-hacked/]
Twice [http://playsquad.commongate.com/post/Xbox_Live_hacked_accounts_stolen/]

Just two examples thanks to Google. It's a simple fact there: nothing is 100% hack proof. Even precious Xbox Live with its gold plated servers.

I continue to see people say this. THESE ARE A FEW ACCOUNTS THAT WERE HACKED. Probably Brute force hacked. All you need is to know an an email and password that is it. It's not even that difficult I know a few people who can do it. Sony had everything stolen, all the data everything. Now lets me say this


A few accounts on Xbox =/= All of PSN

These Sony fanboys

These Sony fanboys who primarily game on PC, gosh darn those.

Your point remains invalid. There was a reason Sony was slash dotted. Give someone a reason and I assure you that Live is just as vulnerable.

If Live as a whole was as easily hackable as PSN, I'm pretty sure it would have happened by now. Why? Butthurt CoD players. The majority of individual account hacks I've seen have been over in-game squabbled and I wouldn't be at all surprised if some sore loser has already tried to hack Live and failed.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

the Xbox and it's services ae a money maker unlike the PS3 which is still losing money on its consoles.

This is the American stock market but still MS is worth more than you guys are claiming.

Actually the original Xbox hemorraged money out of Microsoft, the 360 console itself has only been making money since a couple of years ago.

Sony have been making huge amounts of money for almost 20 years just off the playstation franchise, even though the ps3 console itself wasn't originally making profit it is now and has probably matched the amount of profit the 360 has made even though the 360 has sold more.

Also...the world is bigger than just North America, Microsoft is an American company and is selling much more than the Playstation 3 which is a Japanese console. In Japan, Playstation 3 has made almost ten times the money Microsoft has made on any console.

In the EU Microsoft is in the lead but only by a couple of million units and Sony has made more profit in the EU and are catching up at an insane pace.

I haven't even mentioned the other countries like Australia, South America, South Korea, China, Russia, countries in the Middle East like Iran and Iraq or even Africa, all of which have games consoles.

In addition to the topic. All that has been stolen from Sony are some names and addresses from 2001...yeah big deal, all of that info is easily accessible from XBL anyway.

 

[Celestil]

Uh..the Pentagon was hacked. More than once i think. Whats stopping people from hacking Microsoft/Live?

 

[ameemo]

umm sony's servers were up to date-http://bitmob.com/articles/detective-work-reveals-psn-servers-up-to-date

 

[auronvi]

Hotmail... owned by Microsoft. My e-mail account was hacked twice. This was not through any fault of myself either. I have good passwords and I make sure I don't download stuff that might have spyware on it.

There was a story a year or so back that Hotmail was hacked and had thousands of usernames and passwords. Mine was one of them. They then proceeded to steal my WoW account and another e-mail account on Yahoo. It took a couple of hours but I got everything back, basically ditched Hotmail and will never use their e-mail service ever again.

 

[emeraldrafael]

its not hard to hack it. If you can take an account, you can take anything from it. Get enough people to coordinate it and you could easily cripple and take Live. it happened before, it just wasnt as wide scale.

What happened with sony is worse, just cause it was everyone, but when the PSN is free except for that 20 dollars you pay for at the beginning, what do you really expect? BUt it can happen. Will it happen, I dont know. Maybe, if the people projected to migrate tot he xbox do. Give enough incentive and it will happen. What, you think SONY doesnt know electronics and computers? Bill Gates my have revolutionized the industry, but he's just as susceptible. You think if hackers wanted to, they wouldnt be able to cover themselves? The guys who did this to sony new that, and they covered themselves well.

EDIT:
also, a few accounts = all of PSN, because the capabilities are there for it to happen.

 

[SlasherX]

the Xbox and it's services ae a money maker unlike the PS3 which is still losing money on its consoles.

This is the American stock market but still MS is worth more than you guys are claiming.

Actually the original Xbox hemorraged money out of Microsoft, the 360 console itself has only been making money since a couple of years ago.

Sony have been making huge amounts of money for almost 20 years just off the playstation franchise, even though the ps3 console itself wasn't originally making profit it is now and has probably matched the amount of profit the 360 has made even though the 360 has sold more.

Also...the world is bigger than just North America, Microsoft is an American company and is selling much more than the Playstation 3 which is a Japanese console. In Japan, Playstation 3 has made almost ten times the money Microsoft has made on any console.

In the EU Microsoft is in the lead but only by a couple of million units and Sony has made more profit in the EU and are catching up at an insane pace.

I haven't even mentioned the other countries like Australia, South America, South Korea, China, Russia, countries in the Middle East like Iran and Iraq or even Africa, all of which have games consoles.

In addition to the topic. All that has been stolen from Sony are some names and addresses from 2001...yeah big deal, all of that info is easily accessible from XBL anyway.

This entire statement I have to answer with no, just no

In this thread people said that Sony is worth 128 billion, it is from their fiscal reports that is its worth. Microsoft is worth an estimated 300 billion. The Xbox has outsold the PS3. It just has by a few million units but it is still more and their is more profit from the 360 than the PS3 because MS was losing less money in the beginning and started to make a profit earlier. Also as I said earlier Sony said EVERYTHING WAS STOLEN. Not what was released, what was stolen.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109568-Sony-Admits-Private-PSN-Info-Has-Been-Stolen-All-Of-It

 

[Azure-Supernova]

If Live as a whole was as easily hackable as PSN, I'm pretty sure it would have happened by now. Why? Butthurt CoD players. The majority of individual account hacks I've seen have been over in-game squabbled and I wouldn't be at all surprised if some sore loser has already tried to hack Live and failed.

But how many of your average CoD players have that kind of skill? The whole attack on Sony was baited by Sony themselves, declaring their super security was an invite to hack it and they got what they deserved. I can't recall Microsoft inciting such an attack.

The point is that there's no motivation to launch an assault on Live. Sony had it coming. The guys that tapped Sony weren't your average CoD player; they knew what they were doing and they knew how to cover their tracks. Hell they're evading homeland security now.

Eugh, I hate how every thread mentioning the breach turns into a 360 vs PS3 thread. It always leads to the same arguments, the same circles and the same flaming. It's the internet, shit gets hacked all the time. No amount of security is going to stop a determined young cyber thief from making their money, whether through credit/debit card information or through the thousands made with spam and phising. No-one is prepared.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

The thing I was trying to say is that Microsoft is a larger corporation by a pretty substantial margin and that there was still more money focused on security and Live in general than what is on the PSN.

no.

Sony is actually "bigger" than Microsoft, not the other way around.

According to Wikipedia:

Sony: Total assets ¥11.22 trillion / $137.694 billion (2010)
Microsoft: Total assets US$ 86.113 billion (2010)

ur going to use the site that is credited for being one of the least correct sites on the internet as your source? using wikipedia seriously hurts your case

I don't know how many times I have to bring this up, but that is false.

Wikipedia has slowly become a very reliable source for information as time has gone on. Its easy to access, easy to fix and allows for a large mass of people to add small bits of information here and there. Not to mention that just about every piece of information given has to be validated by a citation. In short, if you don't trust the information, you're more then capable of look up where it came from.

You'll find just as many websites and surveys claiming that Wikipedia is reliable as those that claim the opposite. I'm not saying its perfect, but it certainly isn't the 'least correct site' on the internet.

 

[mikev7.0]

There's less discussion value here then people on the PSN security team!

Ba dum tsh.

I wouldn't say that at all. After having the XBL people order me to delete my profile and then not being able to get it back (for the last week and a half) I wouldn't exactly accuse Microsoft of competence. They have, in fact, proved to me that they are not. So maybe your games saves aren't as important as your financial and personal information but to a customer they are still important. Also I have to imagine that they treat all customers with equal incompetence and ambivilance so I can see they will be losing many as a result.

I just hope the employees in charge of XBL security come from an entirely different pool of talent, but it's irrelevant since no corporation gets to hold my card info for any longer than it takes to ring something up. (I tried to join XBL with a card.)

The XBL situation, in spite of numerous promises, and timeframes, STILL isn't fixed and it's been almost 2 weeks. The sad thing is when all this happened I had LOTS of faith in Microsoft. Now? Well I always wondered if maybe Disney would be a better investment choice anyway.

 

[Meggiepants]

*chuckles* Yeah... I'm not really concerned about XBL being hacked. Speaking as someone who is now on her fourth 360 because the last 3 RROD, well, I happen to know they pretty good at fucking up all on their own without outside influence.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/201002267

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/01/lawyer-explains/

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/defective_xbox_360.html

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/16/xbox-live-class-action-lawsuit-lawyer-speaks/

And that's just some Xbox shit... if I were to get into your beloved Mocrosoft and how wonderful and hack proof they are?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-7-Hacked-controlled,7619.html

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/040611-windows-servers-hacked-at-the.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXZHnXcOL4A

http://www.itworld.com/security/93442/neolithic-windows-security-hole-alive-and-well-windows-7

Now, I realize the above links are mainly about PCs, and not about servers on Microsoft's end. But it doesn't require a hack into a company's server to fuck people over and allow others to gather personal and financial information about them.

Roughly 90% of people who have PCs run Windows of some kind. There was a recent article that said more than 1 billion computers were in homes in the world. We do our taxes on our machines, log in to pay bills, check out credit cards and bank balances. As far as risks to my security and messing with my life goes, I'm far more fearful of Microsoft, who is tasked with giving me a secure OS, than with Sony, who is only tasked with giving me a gaming machine. Particularly since Microsoft's record with secure Operating Systems is far from stellar.

I was in charge of several Windows 2003 servers at my last job. Those servers were far less stable than the Linux servers we had. They went down on several occasions, for a number of days, causing all kinds of havoc. Don't even get me started on the god damned Exchange Server. We had trained Microsoft professionals on the payroll, because that's just how often we needed them to fix their shit.

Don't get me wrong, Sony has done some stupid shit. But you seem to talk as if Xbox/Microsoft is this untouchable golden child who could not possibly put all of us in a similar situation because... they are rich? Yeah, not an argument I would go with.

 

[Ghengis John]

http://bitmob.com/articles/detective-work-reveals-psn-servers-up-to-date

Well that fell into your lap quite nicely. *tip of the hat*

Of course, not to be stubborn, but for all I know you're Brad Grenz. Furthermore, this makes it all the more interesting Sony didn't appear before the comittee, or for that matter, didn't clarify the matter themselves.

 

[Nieroshai]

This is pure Titanic "God Himself cannot sink this ship" arrogance. That is all I have to say.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

the Xbox and it's services ae a money maker unlike the PS3 which is still losing money on its consoles.

This is the American stock market but still MS is worth more than you guys are claiming.

Actually the original Xbox hemorraged money out of Microsoft, the 360 console itself has only been making money since a couple of years ago.

Sony have been making huge amounts of money for almost 20 years just off the playstation franchise, even though the ps3 console itself wasn't originally making profit it is now and has probably matched the amount of profit the 360 has made even though the 360 has sold more.

Also...the world is bigger than just North America, Microsoft is an American company and is selling much more than the Playstation 3 which is a Japanese console. In Japan, Playstation 3 has made almost ten times the money Microsoft has made on any console.

In the EU Microsoft is in the lead but only by a couple of million units and Sony has made more profit in the EU and are catching up at an insane pace.

I haven't even mentioned the other countries like Australia, South America, South Korea, China, Russia, countries in the Middle East like Iran and Iraq or even Africa, all of which have games consoles.

In addition to the topic. All that has been stolen from Sony are some names and addresses from 2001...yeah big deal, all of that info is easily accessible from XBL anyway.

This entire statement I have to answer with no, just no

In this thread people said that Sony is worth 128 billion, it is from their fiscal reports that is its worth. Microsoft is worth an estimated 300 billion. The Xbox has outsold the PS3. It just has by a few million units but it is still more and their is more profit from the 360 than the PS3 because MS was losing less money in the beginning and started to make a profit earlier. Also as I said earlier Sony said EVERYTHING WAS STOLEN. Not what was released, what was stolen.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109568-Sony-Admits-Private-PSN-Info-Has-Been-Stolen-All-Of-It

Sony just produces electronics like tvs and stuff, Microsoft are a HUGE corporation that produces the single most used and important computers and operating servers of all time. Microsoft WILL be worth more.

The thing is this is one piece of two very different companies. Sony's gaming division is much bigger than Microsoft's. The xbox 360 has outsold the Ps3 by just a few million, yes this is true. Though it hasn't lost less money. The original Xbox lost hundreds of billions of dollars, the Xbox 360 wasn't making a profit til a few years ago because it was a lot cheaper to buy than it was to make. Playstation 3 on the other hand was originally making more profit on their consoles because the ratio of price to buy to price to make was much smaller than the 360s they just didn't sell as many consoles.

As for "everything was stolen" no one knows what exactly was stolen, but I don't see any news stories of anyone being affected by the hack outside of PSN being offline so it probably isn't that big a deal.

 

[Vault boy Eddie]

The interwebz, home of the "I own X console, so that one is the best and everything else is like licking a bum's asshole", threads. EVERYTHING CAN BE HACKED! To state otherwise is silly and horribly misinformed.