To those people calling us "Entitled" (Dark Souls PC)

[80Maxwell08]

The only question I have is why are they not releasing it on Steam. I mean, GFWL has a horrid track-record, while Steam has a great one and many more possible users. Why not release it on that? One would think the extra customers from Steam would more than make up for the cost of re-doing the netcode. :/

That's the whole point. It's not about demanding Steam because we want Steam it's because GFWL is bad and causes way more harm than good. People will skip buying games on GFWL because of the problems where some people will buy games on Steam simply because they are there. I can understand people not liking Steam but at least it's for the most part functional. I've never heard of someone losing all of their saves to Steam or mass connection issues. I've heard of being banned from Steam and losing games but not just at random or in the same numbers of the problems with GFWL. Honestly I'm debating getting this now since while I do agree with TB I don't want to buy a game that could have potentially game breaking problems before it's even released.

 

[lacktheknack]

People are actually whining about the Dark Souls/GFWL petition? Wow.

Yep. I dun geddit.

My suggestion: Everyone who calls those upset by use of GFWL "entitled" should be forced to play Street Fighter multiplayer on it. Starting from scratch.

 

[z121231211]

Without knowing what they had to do if they chose something else like Steam I would have probably lost respect for them, but now knowing the reasons why they chose GFWL I'm pretty OK with this considering they would have to spend even more resources and time just to port onto a platform they aren't 100% sure would sell well. Even if there was a petition with a lot of signatures, it's still a risk to them and it's pretty much this or no PC port.

The only question I have is why are they not releasing it on Steam. I mean, GFWL has a horrid track-record, while Steam has a great one and many more possible users. Why not release it on that? One would think the extra customers from Steam would more than make up for the cost of re-doing the netcode. :/

They most likely considered that but then realized that their publisher is only going to give them so much time and money to port it. Even if they would make more money on Steam, if they don't have the time and resources to make that happen they just don't.

 

[Xanthious]

The decision to use GFWL is one that baffles me. It's almost like they WANT this port to fail. Unless the people making decisions are absolutely fucking oblivious to whats what in the PC gaming community they had to know that including the malware that is GFWL would cause a lot of people to either skip it entirely or just fucking download a version that has GFWL stripped away. It's not like it's a huge secret what a festering pile of monkey shit GFWL is.

So thanks for absolutely nothing From Software. Please by all means come talk to me when you are actually serious about selling games on the PC. As long as you are shoehorning in GFWL on your PC titles though I would like to suggest that you kindly shove them straight up your ass because GFWL goes right up there with SecuRom and Origin as things that don't get installed on my PC.

At the end of the day it's their decision and I'm not going to beg them to do anything one way or another. I just don't want to hear them passing the buck on PC gamers when they can't give this piece of shit away because they made a choice to package it with shitty malware masked as DRM. So yeah, us PC gamers aren't entitled to a port without GFWL but on the other hand From Software can go get fucked if they expect to actually sell this game while still using GFWL.

 

[Thoric485]

I fully agree with TB's point - GFWL is shit, but we should bite the bullet for the sake of a full-blooded Souls 3 on PC.

I'm sure Bamco/From have noticed all the dissatisfaction and won't enjoy their support forums exploding either.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

This right here is the difference between entitlement and consumer rights. Consumers have rights to decent customer service. Their product shouldn't be broken, it should arrive when it is said that it should, it should be usable according to the terms and conditions set out for its use. I don't have any experience of GFWL, but what I've been told about it is not exactly complimentary, and I can see why people would ask for it to be removed. Also, the method of going about it. Instead of throwing a hissy fit, sending hundreds of cupcakes, or whining on forums, or doing all the petty shit Bioware fans have been doing, organising a petition and sending it to the company, as is practiced in mature adult society.

Entitlement is when you don't get exactly what you want from an entertainment medium and decide that the correct and adult response is to go completely insane and forget for a moment that you were (hopefully) raised to be a civilised human being. Flinging insults, declaring 'ruined forever' (I think anybody who seriously makes a ruined forever argument should be banned automatically from anything related to the company or product. I mean that seriously), and all the other things that we have seen the 'ReTake' movement are the acts of spoiled children.

Lets compare it to another toy. GFWL is like buying a LEGO set, and then finding that the LEGO set doesn't have all the pieces, and also someone comes and takes them away from you mid-construction for an arbitrary amount of time. When this happens you are well within your rights to say 'no, not acceptable.'

Mass Effect 3 is like buying a pirate ship LEGO set, finishing it and having a great time doing it, all the pieces in place, instructions clear, no interruptions, then getting right to the end and deciding that because the flag is a skull and crossbones instead of a skull and crossed swords you're going to break the pirate ship and write abusive letters to the LEGO company.

 

[Dansen]

My god, PC gamers better suck it up and buy the damn game, or I am going to cry. From Soft doesn't deserve this crap. They didn't have to make this game, but they did and if you don't want more developers to drop the PC, then you should buy the game. What TotalBiscuit is saying is exactly what needs to happen.

From Soft and Namoc Bandai are trying to save time and money by keeping their net code. They aren't trying to be malicious, it is a compromise. They never planned on making Dark souls for the PC, but now they are. Now is the time to prove that you actually wanted the game, and with your support, they will develop the next game with the PC in mind. If PC gamers don't hold up their end it will be bad for everyone. Think of the big picture and bite the bullet. Anybody who signed the petition should buy the game even if they hate windows live. Don't prove the naysayers right.

(P.S. Not to put down anybody's beef with GFWL, but I have used GFWL with Halo 2 and it worked fine, it maybe crashed three times over the course of five months. I have a hard time believing it will break the game.)

 

[Kotch]

I fully agree with TB's point - GFWL is shit, but we should bite the bullet for the sake of a full-blooded Souls 3 on PC.

I'm sure Bamco/From have noticed all the dissatisfaction and won't enjoy their support forums exploding either.

This, I believe is the correct way to go about it...

 

[Something Amyss]

Honestly, it shouldn't matter. You have the right to say you won't buy it if it's on a platform you don't like. You can request they change the DRM or platform.

 

[Something Amyss]

Mass Effect 3 is like buying a pirate ship LEGO set, finishing it and having a great time doing it, all the pieces in place, instructions clear, no interruptions, then getting right to the end and deciding that because the flag is a skull and crossbones instead of a skull and crossed swords you're going to break the pirate ship and write abusive letters to the LEGO company.

You had me right up until this point. Then I LOLed.

 

[viranimus]

I was aware of the petition, of which I begrudgingly signed, but I did not realize anyone was really talking about it.

I get the feeling its not even so much about GFWL (which is honestly a problematic issue) as much as it resentment it was not released on Steam, to which you could have simply looked at Steams publisher category for Namco and realize there was little or no chance it was coming to steam outright.

Im still not fond of the concept of this being via GFWL, but getting bent out of shape over it being there seems really counter productive, especially if the expectation is that steam was what it was "supposed" to be on because the disadvantages of it being on GFWL are not negated by it potentially being on steam.

Really? is there actually a widespread movement against this? Or is it just over focusing on the minor resistance to it?

 

[Rack]

Mass Effect 3 is like buying a pirate ship LEGO set, finishing it and having a great time doing it, all the pieces in place, instructions clear, no interruptions, then getting right to the end and deciding that because the flag is a skull and crossbones instead of a skull and crossed swords you're going to break the pirate ship and write abusive letters to the LEGO company.

It's more like instead of a Skull and Crossbones it was a picture of MC Hammer gurning that projected onto two of your older LEGO kits but the response was still completely overblown.

Here I'm making a consumer decision and letting them know. The problems of GFWL are sufficient that I don't want to buy it at any price. They probably can't change their minds at this juncture, but hopefully the difference is sufficient for Dark Souls 2 to be released with some comptent netcode. If it isn't and this means that Dark Souls 2 doesn't make it to PC then I'm sorry for the people who are sufficiently intereested in the game that they would still want it then I'm sorry, but that's just the way things are.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Take it from a PC gamer.

PC gamers are whiny, entitled brats that will accept nothing you give them, almost entirely because they are constantly treated like shit and won't put up with it. We want it on PC, but we won't take it half-arsed, essentially. GFWL is shit, and there are better alternatives.

But... yeah, as far as count your blessings go, this is a port with hell quick turnover and proven netcode (since it worked on Xbox 360 and the same code's being used here, so there we go). PC gamers deserve to complain, because they want a stellar product instead of a merely functioning one, but... oh, I don't know.

PC gamers are entitled, but for excellent reasons. And hey, the whole of the internet basically changed Mass Effect 3's ending by complaining at Bioware for a few weeks, so surely a handful assuming lightning will strike twice with a much smaller issue isn't beyond reasonable logic.

 

[Dandark]

I was never going to buy it on PC since I already have it on Xbox and probably couldn't run it on my labtop anyway but im still dissapointed by this because people will not buy it or pirate it due to GFWL and the company will feel cheated by the PC market.
THey are making it because it was asked for.
After watching total biscuits mailbox episode on it, I kinda agree that we need to bear with it. If it's really too much for you then fine, don't buy it but please don't pirate it.

I just hope that From software understands that they will lose sales and the piracy rate will increase because of GFWL so that they still consider making their next game on PC too, hopefully without GFWL.

 

[endtherapture]

With GFWL, Dark Souls goes from a Day 1 full price purchase, to a "buy it when it's under £10" purchase.

I dont want to pay full price again for a game which has the chance of not letting me access any online, or not letting me access any saves, like Arkham City was, and if you've had previous experiences with GFWL you would be an idiot to pay full price for a product with it attached.

 

[Dogstile]

This debate has been brought up and argued many times already, another is not required.

If forums didn't repeat threads, forums wouldn't exist.

OP: That being said, people using the word entitled probably have no clue what it actually means and more of a case of "oh, people use it roughly here in a sentence, I should to".

 

[Seventh Actuality]

Wait, this is going to involve Games for Windows Live?

Looks like this is another case of buy the game then pirate it afterwards so I can get what I actually fucking paid for.

And I highly doubt most people will be as goody-two-shoes about it as me, either.