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Samoftherocks

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Oct 4, 2008
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...for California to likely uphold prop. 8.

I am among the 48% who said NO on 8. It's wrong. It's something that bullies do in school; keeping those who they perceive as weak and unworthy from being able to live similar lives free of scrutiny due to being who they are. I'll spare you all the
oppression" and "second-class citizenry" speak and just say simply this, it's not fair.

Americans expect a fair deal from it's government, a governement supposedly untouched by religious dogma, or at least, the skewed perspective of some of the religious elite. The religious right in America, however, has sewn the seeds of their own destruction. By simply changing the nature of the word "marriage", they have set themselves up for humans to yet again socially evolve to denounce that word as the tie which binds them. There is no reason to think that the institution of marriage cannot be torn down around the ears of the Pro8s by simply rebuilding civil union right to mirror those of state sanctioned marriage. Thus castrating them from the last large piece of power that they have to control the minds of our offcials.

To be clear, I have no problem with religious belief, but if it starts to encroach upon the rights of myself or those whom I consider friends, then I must stand against it.

I write this for the non-Americans here at the Escapist. Many Americans here have dealt with this issue, and it's definetely come up here before in other posts. To all our friends who have wondered why America, especially California, could have allowed this legislation to pass, I say, wait and see. History favors the oppressed when they rise together to fight their oppressors and this is no different. It simply has started with a defeat. Equality will win in the end, as it always has before.

Thank you

EDIT: Prop 8 is a voter approved ban on same-sex marriage that was passed 52% to 48% in CA last November.
 

Zamn

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Apr 18, 2009
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You say you write this for non-Americans but you never actually explain what prop. 8 is. I presume from context it's a ban on gay marraige but explaining what it would have been a good start.
 

Cpt_Oblivious

Not Dead Yet
Jan 7, 2009
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Zamn said:
You say you write this for non-Americans but you never actually explain what prop. 8 is. I presume from context it's a ban on gay marraige but explaining what it would have been a good start.
This. What's a prop. 8?
 

traceur_

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Feb 19, 2009
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Cpt_Oblivious said:
Zamn said:
You say you write this for non-Americans but you never actually explain what prop. 8 is. I presume from context it's a ban on gay marraige but explaining what it would have been a good start.
This. What's a prop. 8?
indeed, we have no idea what your props are, I'm not sure I care but do elaborate.
 

TheMatt

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Jan 26, 2009
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Same as above but I also think it is implied. I think it's fucked. Let ppl marry whoever the hell they want. How can it possibly matter to any one but them?

Lol, who was it? Miss california who said that Shit to Perez Hilton?
 

McClaud

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Nov 2, 2007
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Proposition 8 in California is putting a ban on same sex marriage. Previously, the court in California had ruled in favor of same sex marriages, but then a small, united county of religious folks in California introduced Prop 8 and it passed because a few coalitions of religious people got out and voted for it. Unfortunately, not a lot of people voted AGAINST it because they thought it would fail.

Lesson: If there is a bill that you don't like, don't rely on other folks to vote it down. Make sure you get everyone you know to go out and vote.

Today they were reviewing proposition 8 in the California Supreme Court. It might be found as unconstitutional and thrown out. Or it might not.
 

XJ-0461

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Mar 9, 2009
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So 52% of Califonians voted in favour of small-mindedness? That makes about as much snese as the end of the Matrix trilogy.
 

GonzoGamer

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Apr 9, 2008
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I forget who said it first but I concur that this isn't a political matter and shouldn't be treated as such.
Getting married is a spiritual matter. If you are a part of a religion that doesn't have a problem with homosexuality, you shouldn't have any problems getting married. If you a gay catholic, you should come to the sad conclusion that they will probably never accept you (unless you want to join the priesthood) and you should find a faith that is more accepting.

What the homosexuals need to do is make their own religion (or usurp a dead religion) that is accepting of homosexuality and sue the government on grounds of religious persecution.

Who you marry shouldn't be up to the government. I have a feeling/hope that by the time I get old this question will be as absurd as asking if interracial marriage is morally correct now.
 

H.R.Shovenstuff

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Sep 19, 2008
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I saw this a while ago and I everything has already been said. Still though, damn. Fucking religious bigots ruin everything.
 

Thanatos34

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Mar 31, 2009
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The Supreme Court of California has upheld it 6-1. I disagree with the morality of the decision, but I'm not entirely sure I'd like the precedent that the alternative decision would have set, (that the courts can overrule the Constitution of the states). Then who watches the courts?
 

Thanatos34

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Mar 31, 2009
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SharPhoe said:
Thanatos34 said:
Then who watches the courts?
Oh, please don't say that. You're making me imagine Rorschach in a seat on Congress...
I was trying to quote Watchmen. Which I still haven't seen. I'm going to go steal a car and a theater if I can't figure out someway to work that movie into my schedule.
 

cathou

Souris la vie est un fromage
Apr 6, 2009
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GonzoGamer said:
I forget who said it first but I concur that this isn't a political matter and shouldn't be treated as such.
Getting married is a spiritual matter. If you are a part of a religion that doesn't have a problem with homosexuality, you shouldn't have any problems getting married. If you a gay catholic, you should come to the sad conclusion that they will probably never accept you (unless you want to join the priesthood) and you should find a faith that is more accepting.

What the homosexuals need to do is make their own religion (or usurp a dead religion) that is accepting of homosexuality and sue the government on grounds of religious persecution.

Who you marry shouldn't be up to the government. I have a feeling/hope that by the time I get old this question will be as absurd as asking if interracial marriage is morally correct now.
as long as marriage will give right to couple, this will be a political matter. Marriage is not bind to religion. If you are atheist you can get married in a courthouse in front of a judge. In that event, the governement will now see the couple as a moral person, and give right and advantages to that person. In no way the religion is involve.
 

GonzoGamer

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Apr 9, 2008
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cathou said:
GonzoGamer said:
I forget who said it first but I concur that this isn't a political matter and shouldn't be treated as such.
Getting married is a spiritual matter. If you are a part of a religion that doesn't have a problem with homosexuality, you shouldn't have any problems getting married. If you a gay catholic, you should come to the sad conclusion that they will probably never accept you (unless you want to join the priesthood) and you should find a faith that is more accepting.

What the homosexuals need to do is make their own religion (or usurp a dead religion) that is accepting of homosexuality and sue the government on grounds of religious persecution.

Who you marry shouldn't be up to the government. I have a feeling/hope that by the time I get old this question will be as absurd as asking if interracial marriage is morally correct now.
as long as marriage will give right to couple, this will be a political matter. Marriage is not bind to religion. If you are atheist you can get married in a courthouse in front of a judge. In that event, the governement will now see the couple as a moral person, and give right and advantages to that person. In no way the religion is involve.
So what, all of the zombies who are so vehemently opposed to gay marriage always cite religious reasons. None of them can give a good political reason. Really, what rights would be horribly misplaced in the hands of a gay couple?
Yes an atheist would go to a Judge but what I'm saying is that in those cases (where the people getting married are atheists or just don't like religion) there are no religious restrictions and therefore there shouldn't be any objection to them getting a license.

My point is that it's not the government's place to decide what constitutes a lifelong partnership, and it shouldn't be made into a political matter. These right wing crypto-fascists creep me out with their opposition more than any gay person ever has; and I live in NYC.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone who isn't gay cares. Jon Stewart said it best when he said: "I was totally against gay marriage too, until I found out I could stay married to my wife."
 

DrDeath3191

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Mar 11, 2009
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I'm going to go ahead and be the "bad guy" in this instance: I don't support same-sex marriage. Aside from my religious views, I just think that marriage is a legal contract between two parties of opposite gender. I'm sure I'm going to recieve alot of flak for my opinion, ironically being called closed-minded. But, there's my two-cents.
 

Thanatos34

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Mar 31, 2009
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NoMoreSanity said:
To think that Prop 8 passed shows how far our country has fallen. The courts better overturn this, or I swear there might actually be riots...
That is the wrong way to go about doing this. Take a page out of MLK's book, not Malcolm X's.
 

Thanatos34

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Mar 31, 2009
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DrDeath3191 said:
I'm going to go ahead and be the "bad guy" in this instance: I don't support same-sex marriage. Aside from my religious views, I just think that marriage is a legal contract between two parties of opposite gender. I'm sure I'm going to recieve alot of flak for my opinion, ironically being called closed-minded. But, there's my two-cents.
You can think that, but if you cannot support it with evidence, it's an illogical opinion to hold.
 

Nimbus

Token Irish Guy
Oct 22, 2008
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DrDeath3191 said:
I'm going to go ahead and be the "bad guy" in this instance: I don't support same-sex marriage. Aside from my religious views, I just think that marriage is a legal contract between two parties of opposite gender. I'm sure I'm going to recieve alot of flak for my opinion, ironically being called closed-minded. But, there's my two-cents.
That's a fine opinion. And do you know what you should do about it? You should not get married to someone of the same sex. But you shouldn't let your opinion stop other people from doing whatever the hell they want, especially as it has nothing to do with you.