Tokyo's Anti-Loli Bill has Passed in Committee.

[One of Many]

Well, I don't care much for Loli but there is no reason to ban it. No one's getting hurt.

 

[Tirak]

Snip!

Double Snip!

I think that you might be slightly exaggerating the effects of the bill. It's not that the bill is going to completely eradicate anything sexual, but rather that these kinds of materials will be more tightly regulated, and moved into the adult only section, similar to the NC 17 rating here in America.
That being said, I agree that the bill needs some work. As you said, I would hate to see things like DBZ taken off the market just because they have nudity. I would prefer a bill that only got rid of the most unequivocally messed up stuff, and let the normal sexual things go, with some tighter classifications of "obscene sexuality". If we leave these decisions up to a small minded group with infinite reign, we are opening ourselves up to an almost Orwellian regulation of information. I also didn't know about the author's rape stories.
Just to clarify, I have no problem with sexuality. It is part of human nature, and should not be limited. However, I think that the fetishizing of underage children is both harmful and immoral. I am asexual as well, but I can see the problems with getting off to children, drawn or otherwise being raped. This isn't some religiously driven thing (I'm an atheist) but rather a fundamental ethical choice.

words

the only thing bad about this is when things get banned that use loli but not for sexual purposes. Eg there is an anime/manga called "Dance in the Vampire Bund"(really gay name). But it was fantastic and it happened that a loli was used as one of its main characters.

Throughout the series she is a abused at points but is never total helpless, the abuse stricken on her didn't come from the dark-fantasies of the author but his intellect, he didn't use those scenes to provide satisfaction but to make you feel sickened, to put the reader on the side of the abusi instead of the abuser.

Unfortunately because of a similar ban in the west (more specifically Australia were I am) it is impossible to own a copy of this without it being a crime. And thats just sad

Again, just like Lolita, these kinds of things can be used to create an artistic purpose. This should certainly be condoned, as any piece of work with any artistic value is valuable. My objections are to the kinds of entertainment that are only designed for the viewer to masturbate to. I've seen ones where the story goes 1: Introduce underage girl. 2: Underage girl gets horribly violated, likely scarring her for life. 3: Story ends. 4: ajemas closes the computer and weeps for humanity. These should not be allowed, but the aforementioned "Dance in the Vampire Bond" should. Again, the bill isn't perfect, but it's a start.

'

It's too much too quickly. The bill gives too much interpretative power. What is oversexualized? What is promoting of crude behavior. At what point do we say one thing is fine but this isn't? The bill's language allows for exactly what gamerguy2002 has in that FAQ he posted.

I agree completely with your part about some of the truly sick hentai out there, some of it is truly disturbing and i find morally reprehensible, but that work is already tightly regulated. This bill goes into more innocent and innocuous things. Sure some good will come out of this bill, but the potential harm far outweighs that.

 

[JoJo]

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Let me just a say a big "This!" to that, it's nice to see there is actually someone else on here who thinks lolicon is harmful and immoral.

Depicting something is fiction is not encouraging it to be done in real life.

It depends on the type of fiction at hand, when it comes to lolicon it is obviously for the user to gain a perverted sexual pleasure out it, which can only encourage them to break the law. As I said in my previous post sex is a far stronger motivator than most other types of pleasure, which is why I'm not opposed to films like SAW or games like GTA.

 

[Tirak]

snip

Let me just a say a big "This!" to that, it's nice to see there is actually someone else on here who thinks lolicon is harmful and immoral.

Depicting something is fiction is not encouraging it to be done in real life.

It depends on the type of fiction at hand, when it comes to lolicon it is obviously for the user to gain a perverted sexual pleasure out it, which can only encourage them to break the law. As I said in my previous post sex is a far stronger motivator than most other types of pleasure, which is why I'm not opposed to films like SAW or games like GTA.

But this isn't just about lolicon. The bill doesn't restrict this to just hentai material, that's already regulated and restricted, but those where someone may perceive something as gratuitous. Anything that so much as hints at something in a sexual manner is instantly a target for this bill, whether or not the original intention was there or even if the material goes to the level of something that is hentai in nature.

Furthermore, the argument that lolicon promotes breaking the law is the same that's made for GTA being a murder simulator.

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

We have rating systems here in America. I think it's...any full frontal nudity immediately becomes R-rated, meaning no one under 17 can rent/buy it? There are warning labels on everything. And the reason the fight still goes on is the reason why this bill won't annihilate everything: because adults will buy it for kids.

Kids have always found ways to get Adult material. Older siblings/cousins/whatever, friends, and even parents will get kids their daily dose of insanity. Want to play Postal at the age of 15? There's someone out there who will get you the game. Really, all this is doing is making it harder for kids to get their hands on blatant sex material.

Maybe the bill is too generalizable, but in the end, no one ever stopped buying sex-charged material just because someone slapped a label on it. Japan isn't made of robots -- even if the yaoi gets moved into the Adults section, there are people who will buy it for the teens who want to read it.

The world will not end. And let's hope RapeLay gets burned in the pits of hell forever.

 

[Towels]

Does this bill only apply to retail outlets?

I have no idea, but by judging how technophilic Japan is, wouldn't internet ordering be more popular for the intended demographic anyways? And how would this law effect Internet Orders?

If that's the case, then perhaps a little regulation wouldn't be that bad. I know nothing about Japanese culture, but it has to be pretty awkward for a parent of any culture to explain violent alien rape to their kids while shopping for a movie.

 

[JoJo]

snip

Let me just a say a big "This!" to that, it's nice to see there is actually someone else on here who thinks lolicon is harmful and immoral.

Depicting something is fiction is not encouraging it to be done in real life.

It depends on the type of fiction at hand, when it comes to lolicon it is obviously for the user to gain a perverted sexual pleasure out it, which can only encourage them to break the law. As I said in my previous post sex is a far stronger motivator than most other types of pleasure, which is why I'm not opposed to films like SAW or games like GTA.

But this isn't just about lolicon. The bill doesn't restrict this to just hentai material, that's already regulated and restricted, but those where someone may perceive something as gratuitous. Anything that so much as hints at something in a sexual manner is instantly a target for this bill, whether or not the original intention was there or even if the material goes to the level of something that is hentai in nature.

Furthermore, the argument that lolicon promotes breaking the law is the same that's made for GTA being a murder simulator.

Read my post again, I have already answered the point you gave about GTA. As for the bill in question, I can't judge on that as I don't know all the details but I was debating with Father Time about lolicon in general, not this bill.

 

[The DSM]

Please tell me thats its offical name...

Also, eh never really effected me, dont watch too much anime with loli's in honestly.

 

[Vhite]

Im not sure if I like this or not. I dont like Japanese wierd porn but I like Japan and this was always part of it. Its like killing the bad part of someones personality. Sounds good in theory but then it may be completly different person but now Im just overthinking, wierd porn isnt going to disappear from Japan even if whole world would wanted it.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

After reading some of these comments and the article I'm still not entirely sure what this law will ban, but I very much hope it bans the abomination that is lolicon. Seriously, anyone who supports it as "freedom of expression" or something think about what it is a representation of: sexual abuse of small children . However much you may claim that it's an "attraction to youthful looks" or an "attraction to an art style" the fact is these pictures are made to look like little girls and so in my opinion are totally wrong.

And the Saw movies are a representation of gratuitous torture of innocent people. I suppose we should ban Saw now, right? Same mentality. Or how about Grand Theft Auto? Representations of various illegal criminal activities in that game, yet no one raises a peep to have it banned like we are knee-jerking to do here.

It's better for these individuals interested in such to be wanking off to fictional characters, rather than being forced to (ban loli, people are going to be forced to go into more dangerous realms to get their "fix") end up looking for obviously illegal images of non-fictional characters instead. And then we have an even worse issue than before.

There is a difference between what I said and the examples you gave, which is that unlike the other two lolicon is specifically designed to encourage a sexual response. We all know that sex is one of the most powerful and irresible motivations, so why encourage it towards children? I don't believe that it really reduces sexual abuse rates, it may or may not increase them.

Guess which nation has the lowest sexual abuse rates? Guess which nation has the highest sexual abuse rates? Porn/loli actually decreases the amount of sexual abuses cases amongst teenagers and young adults with a higher sexual hormonal rate in their bodies, as they have a non-violent and easy source of sexually arousing material in which to immerse themselves in instead of attempting to go out into the real world and find a real victim instead. If you have less to no amount of porn/loli available to these same demographics, they have no non-violent or easy source of such in which to immerse themselves into, and henceforth will likely end up attempting to take their desires into a more realistic setting. Which leads to an increase in sexual abuse rates. It's fairly common logic.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-legalizing-child-pornography-linked-sex.html

The entire reason lolicon is actually positive in the face of decreased sexual abuse rates is because it is meant to exhibit the same sexual response of arousal that they might otherwise find in realistic situations. It doesn't matter if Saw or Grand Theft Auto isn't meant to do the same, some minority of individuals might find the depiction of torture and violent crime to be sexually arousing (in which sexual arousal to depictions or acts of torture and/or violence is a legitimate sexual "deviancy"), and they may be motivated to go on ahead and try it in real life. So by the logic you are using yet again, we should ban Saw and Grand Theft Auto for the potential that it may create to sexual abuse crimes. Just as lolicon has the potential that some may go on to perform sexual abuse crimes in real life.

 

[Aurgelmir]

- Any character (no age restriction).
- In any manga, anime, or pictures (most likely including games).
- That feature sexual acts or sexual like acts that would be illegal in real life OR any sexual acts or sexual like acts between close relative who could not [legally] marry* if they were real AND
- Where the depiction / representation of the act is presented in an unjustifiably glorified or overly emphasized manner.
=> Is considered harmful to a minor?s mental health regarding sexuality, and therefore the Tokyo Metropolitan Government shall have the power to unilaterally restrict the material. where the sexual or sexual like act is considered to be excessively disrupting of social order (i.e. rape and anything else that could be deemed to be highly disruptive of social order.)

Well if you read the words there, I don't see anything wrong with the act. I mean most other countries do not allow this.

And as for the first link, he is over reacting. Sure you could try and make a manga adaptation of Lolita, but it would just have to pass a reviewboard first.

 

[Draksune]

A few years back, wasn't there a guy in US court under child pornography charges? And the 'evidence' used against him from his hard-drive, was Hentai of very young anime characters? To those that seem to like Loli stuff, just remember that Japan's laws of acceptance are not always shared. In the US, the stuff can be used against you if twisted just right.

 

[Draksune]

*doublepostgrumble*