Tolkien, Overrated?

[Fumbleumble]

You all have to remember, first and foremost he was a literary scholar.

His writings were his way of not only entertaining his children, but also his way of giving them a thorough grounding in a subject he loved and wished to gift to them, language and gramatical structure.

If he was, as most of us feel he was, long-winded, then we also have to accept that there was method to his writing, it was all very deliberate and precise... He knew what he was doing.

 

[NeutralDrow]

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

Odd. I'm the total opposite. That's exactly what draws me into it.

I'm an intensely visual person. The more I know about the sensory aspects of a scene, the more totally real it feels to me. Tolkienesque imagery is my favorite standby.

 

[GrimTuesday]

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

Odd. I'm the total opposite. That's exactly what draws me into it.

I'm an intensely visual person. The more I know about the sensory aspects of a scene, the more totally real it feels to me.

I'm a visual person as well but I like to be able to put my imagination to work. I like having some brief description, George RR Martin's work is a perfect example of this. With Tolkien it's like he draws you a picture and say this is it, You really can't have much of a different mental picture of the people and places of his world.

 

[Frotality]

its not so much hes overrated; its just that LOTR is 80 years old. its perfectly understandable if it doesnt age well for some (or indeed, most). his style might be considered overwrought with detail today, but some point between then and now it was considered compellingly descriptive. personally, im the kind of guy who couldnt be concise to save his life, so i can appreciate tolkien, but its very understandable that someone would consider him overrated.

as we know, Tolkien is pretty much the forefather of all fantasy, which means that ALOT of stuff expanding upon his books has been made since then. so, spoiled by more modern fantasy, he just doesnt seem to be nearly as great as he really is. example: General Relativity was a groundbreaking scientific theory when einstein proved it, but its common knowledge today, and is mostly just the groundwork for all the black holes and supersymmetry that occupy modern physics. you have to consider the times to truly appreciate the forefathers; they arent nearly as engaging when compared to decades of evolution in the genre.

 

[voetballeeuw]

I really enjoy his writing, and his novels. There are parts that can be boring, but I just push through them, and admire the world that he created.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

Overrated? No, just dated. You have to remember what he was writing was extremely fresh in his time. The market wasn't saturated with high fantasy, dark fantasy, whatever fantasy styles that were derived or heavily inspired by his work. These days though not only has our tastes in writing styles changed, but there are much more refined works out there that sit in a similar concept.

 

[Hader]

I'm a pretty big fan of fantasy yet I hate the Lord of the Rings books and most of Tolkien's other books. To many of my friends who are also fantasy fans this is like blaspheme and I have on quite a few occasions had to defend my opinion in heated argument form.

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

How do you feel about Tolkien? What other writers do you feel are overrated and why?

It is strange how he underdevelops some points yet overdevelops others, but honestly that has never been a problem that took away from he experience for me. I was quite drawn into the stories regardless, and those his style may be weird, it was still unique and fun.

 

[d3structor]

Tolkien has a very... unique style. I can certainly understand people not liking it. the face that you don't hear from main character for hundreds of pages sometimes is something that no other author would do.

On the other hand no one else has managed to create a fictional world like tolkien and so we forgive his strange writing style

 

[Canid117]

We all have our dislikes, but you still should acknowledge major figures. Tolkien was practically the father of modern fantasy stories, just like how Shakespeare was for theatre or Freud was for psychology. You may think their works are crap, but you can't deny their influence.

Ooooo /thread.

Without Tolkien, we'd have no elves at all! And maybe even less!

Elves? Yes but they would all be Santa style elves. Though we wouldn't have orcs because those were pure Tolkien.

 

[Fumbleumble]

+1 internets to the first person who says what his biggest literary influence was.

(..and no googling )

 

[[Gavo]]

I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Is Tolkien that guy who ripped off Gary Gygax?

 

[Fumbleumble]

]
If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

More like the biggest conceit ever, took him 20 years to get where he got, had the audacity to start a prequel before it's completion and finished neither.

It's only success was failure on a grand scale.

 

[s0m3th1ng]

There is a reason he is considered not one of the best Fantasy writers of all time (Which he most certainly is) but one of the best writers, period.
Take away the fact that he pretty much invented modern fantasy (If he hadn't done it, someone else would have shortly after)
And remove from this discussion the huge tide of fans associated with his world.

What we are left with is a literary masterpiece that can stand next any classic or modern work of fiction. I don't care if you don't like the story, or his style, but in order to not sound like a complete cretin, I sure hope you understand just how good his books are.

It's more than just elves, orcs, and dwarves. It's an entire world built around dualities and Antithesis. Good, evil. Fate, Free Will. Death and Immortality and many more. And the way he does it is near poetry.

 

[swaswj]

Tolkien is a master of world-building. I have yet to see any other author in any other genre able to create a world with as much detail and history and cohesion as Tolkien has -- that means the world itself, the races inhabiting it, the rules that govern their world, wars and kingdoms, etc. That alone merits him quite a bit of accolade.

Does that make him my favorite writer? Not really. The Hobbit is and always will be one of my favorite books, but the rest of Tolkien's work reads like very intriguing history and mythology. Personally, I'm a fan of more character-centric work. Authors like Terry Goodkind, RA Salvatore, and Daniel Hood do a much better job of capturing characters and motivations. That's the style of writing I prefer.

So, no, Tolkien is not overrated: he was and still is the best at what he does. That doesn't discredit the skill or style of other writers, though.

 

[Thaius]

I agree.

Tolkien was a genius. He was also a terrible writer. His ideas, his stories, the development of the world... all that stuff was absolutely amazing. But his books are simply not well written. He has no concept of story movement; the plot can barely move an inch before he decides some random scenery is more important. Books like Dune, the Sword of Truth series, heck, even Eragon all develop very full and detailed worlds by developing the details within the context of the story. That is how it is supposed to be done. Tolkien's writing is akin to a very well-organized child; brilliant and creative, capable of creating entire fantasy worlds, but far too easily distracted by his own creation.

I recognize that Tolkien did not write Lord of the Rings to be published and read, but rather just as a personal project. I get that. It does not change this fact.

 

[archaicmalevolence]

It all depends on personal taste as some of the fantasy features Tolkien used could be linked to more present day things for his and our time and less imagination but knowledge. His books always (except for the Hobbit) seemed more like poetry in some bits, but just my opinion.

 

[Fumbleumble]

It's more than just elves, orcs, and dwarves. It's an entire world built around dualities and Antithesis. Good, evil. Fate, Free Will. Death and Immortality and many more. And the way he does it is near poetry.

You are actually quite wrong.

All of what you have mentioned is allegory and Tolkien stated a number of times that he abhored allegory.. it was, in his words, quite simply a good story, anything else is purely in the mind of the reader and unintentional.

 

[GrimTuesday]

]I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

I've been told it's good but I've also heard that it's a little... predictable. Rand uses balefire... and goes and eats his lunch.

 

[NeutralDrow]

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

Odd. I'm the total opposite. That's exactly what draws me into it.

I'm an intensely visual person. The more I know about the sensory aspects of a scene, the more totally real it feels to me.

I'm a visual person as well but I like to be able to put my imagination to work. I like having some brief description, George RR Martin's work is a perfect example of this. With Tolkien it's like he draws you a picture and say this is it, You really can't have much of a different mental picture of the people and places of his world.

I guess that's the difference, then. I want the author's picture. I can fill in the details myself if I absolutely have to, but it'll usually be half filled-in and unfocused. It's their story, after all.

]I liked the Hobbit. The other books...I got bored.

If you like fantasy, READ THE WHEEL OF TIME BY ROBERT JORDAN.

Best fantasy series ever IMO.

Ever try reading the Silmarillion? Took me three tries to get through the book. I kept getting hopelessly lost around the second section (just after the creation of the dwarves and the ents).

I don't know if I'd call the Wheel of Time the best series ever, but mainly because I don't like calling anything the "best ever." Love the series, myself, and I can't wait for A Memory of Light to come out March 2012.