Tomb Raider: dear god...."the rape scene"...

[Kurt Cristal]

To anyone upset with the 'alleged' rape scene, here's a checklist:

1) Shut up.
2) Go watch "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" Either version.
3) Play the game.

In that order.

Still offended? I don't think so.

 

[thewatergamer]

I see

another thing that annoys me iis that since Lara is seen as a "strong" female protagonist...ANY indicent of her being seemingly "weak" was sort of blown out of proportion as sexist....when I feel (as I said) it all makes sense thematically and in in context

weakness is a GOOD thing..more game charachters should have it

Oh, agreed.

Notice I never got on board with the Lara controversy. I even made some dick-jokes in the Conan plays Tomb Raider thread.

Still, the fact that they immediately equated "weakness" and "men trying to rape her" is a bit disturbing. There are other ways to portray weakness in an otherwise strong character.

I could give examples, but I'd just be gushing about Parasite Eve (the first one) again.

While I agree with the whole weakness is a good thing
I Will say (And you said it perfectly) Rape was not the right way to portray Laura
Even though in my opinion the "handling" Wasn't the thing that I freaked out about (not a tomb raider fan here but do like Laura as a character)
I think most people freaked out about that dev making that post
And I say the freaking out was very well justified
Laura croft is one of the few strong female characters left
After Samus got wrecked in Metroid Other M
I think people may be concerned that Laura might be following suite
Once again though I had a problem with what the Dev said it was pretty sexist and was not a good move to denounce Laura like that

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

well the trailer showed what did happen in the game, I think it was accepted as in game footage

Yes, but the outcry was over the trailer attempting to motivate gamers to buy the game so they could "save Lara from rape" - which was judged to be a rather sexist and fucked-up motivation.

After all, you don't play God of War to prevent Kratos from being raped. (and yes, that example is meant to be absurd)

Again, I don't think this controversy deserved the press it got. Is it kinda sexist? Yeah. But compared to other issues, I don't see why it got the press it did. There are worse examples. Lots of them.

 

[Rednog]

So....you're telling me that so far we've had none of the giant outcries in the last 6 months of misogynistic games actually pan out.

can you re-explain that? what do you mean?

What I mean is that we've had all these outcries over trailers, developer interviews, etc where a hint of sexism was presented in a yet unreleased game. And people were absolutely losing their shit in each instance, and none of the stuff that people flipped out over was actually that bad. I mean the amount of omfg how dare this male use rape as a plot device he should lose his job, the game should sink, he's a misogynistic bastard! And it turned out to really be nothing of concern.
I don't know I think I'm just a little irked at the gaming community and how over reactionary. We get all these articles from different groups condemning video games when this kind of stuff hits the general public, but we never get the articles that are like "hey, we overreacted, it didn't end up being bad."

 

[KevinR1990]

Okay, I'm usually content to lurk, but I feel compelled to voice my opinion on this.

The advertising for this game did a terrible job of portraying Lara Croft. Every review I have read suggests that, by halfway through the game, Lara is back to being the badass heroine that we know and love. However, the trailers all hyper-focused on the early parts of the game, where Lara goes through abuse that would make John McClane say "whoa, girl, take it easy", with one of the main set-pieces in one trailer featuring the unstated but heavily implied threat of rape. (The developer's comments about it only made it worse.) Stripped of context, it made the game look like the Lara Croft Torture Experience. Since advertising is, by design, what most of us had to go off of, I don't feel it was unjustified to cry foul over what appeared at first glance (and second, and third) to be a game about breaking Lara physically, emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually.

Compare the E3 trailer [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd6kVMZgT4g] for Uncharted: Drake's Fortune. Nathan Drake is frequently in trouble, yes, but he also gets his moments to shine and act like a badass, making fearless leaps and getting into raging gunfights. In the Tomb Raider trailer [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3HfmcDRbn8], on the other hand, all we see is Lara getting abused, captured, tied up, attacked by wild animals, begging for help, and of course, that scene. The first minute feels like a torture-porn horror movie. Only near the very end do we get hints of the tomb-raiding badass that Lara spends much of the game as.

I commend Crystal Dynamics for delivering a game worthy of the Tomb Raider name, and curse their advertising department for so grossly misrepresenting the game they were trying to sell, whipping up a needless controversy in the process.

 

[Vault101]

snip

I feel like somtimes being over sensitive to thease things can be more harful than sexism itself

Compare the E3 trailer [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd6kVMZgT4g] for Uncharted: Drake's Fortune. Nathan Drake is frequently in trouble, yes, but he also gets his moments to shine and act like a badass, making fearless leaps and getting into raging gunfights. In the Tomb Raider trailer [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3HfmcDRbn8], on the other hand, all we see is Lara getting abused, captured, tied up, attacked by wild animals, begging for help, and of course, that scene. The first minute feels like a torture-porn horror movie. Only near the very end do we get hints of the tomb-raiding badass that Lara spends much of the game as.

it depends on how you interperet it, I understood what they were going for...survival, struggling and overcoming adversity..finding the strength within yourself to keep going even when youve been kicked down for the 10th time blah blah blah that kind of thing

mabye thye mishandled it but I think part of the reason was seeing a girl get hurt was part of it

compared to uncharted...as I said uncharted is not as realistic as tomb raider...nathan drake isnt surviving...he's just plodding from one set peice to another having adventures...overall it feels more shallow

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I don't think it was bad at all but I'll say one thing it was very 'odd' that the guy acted like that and then killed her.
The scene was fine though I think. I love the game, just finished it. It's a great new Lara in my book.

 

[Vault101]

I don't think it was bad at all but I'll say one thing it was very 'odd' that the guy acted like that and then killed her.
The scene was fine though I think. I love the game, just finished it. It's a great new Lara in my book.

I'd say its because they would not have an ACTUAL "pres x not to be raped" sequence,the interesting thing is if you get the QTE's right then you wouldn't know otherwise.....(I actually let it go just to see what would happen)..but if I were to explain the guys behaviour...mabye he gets off on strangling her more than he would raping her?..not that it matters

I'm not that far through (and judging by the fact you've finished it doesn't seem very long) but the only tiny "nitpick that isnt really a nitpick" is that her father is mentioned in the typical "your father would be proud" thing, I don't know if that fits with the original Lara croft but it brings about the "I want to do this because of my daddy" implying that a women wouldn't have the ambition/autonomy to chase suchs things herself without a strong male figure to...

....ah fuck it, I'm over analyzing

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I think it's okay for wanting to follow in your parents footsteps (Rhinna Pratchett IS the writer lol

To be fair the guy giving the presentation way back when was a total douche. I'm not surprised everyone spazzed out.

 

[Zhukov]

snip

I think it's okay for wanting to follow in your parents footsteps (Rhinna Pratchett IS the writer lol

Heh, I'd be willing to bet Rhianna Pratchett is really sick of being compared to her dad.

"It's written by Rhianna Pratchett."
"Who?"
"She's Terry Pratchett's daughter."
"Ohhhh. Cool."

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I think it's okay for wanting to follow in your parents footsteps (Rhinna Pratchett IS the writer lol

Heh, I'd be willing to bet Rhianna Pratchett is really sick of being compared to her dad.

"It's written by Rhianna Pratchett."
"Who?"
"She's Terry Pratchett's daughter."
"Ohhhh. Cool."

Yup lol. Although my love for Terry Pratchett is boundless and now his daughter is awesome too <3
She said he played the first Tomb Raider and died loads on the T-Rex rofl.

 

[Vault101]

Yup lol. Although my love for Terry Pratchett is boundless and now his daughter is awesome too <3
She said he played the first Tomb Raider and died loads on the T-Rex rofl.

this thing is written by pratchetss daughter?

well thats cool XD

I know...as I said its one of those things that bothers me enough to notice but doesnt bother me enough to actually "be bothered"

 

[elvor0]

Excuse me people. But...

-snip-

The scenes in Tomb Raider didn't even make me flinch. But these made me feel entirely uncomfortable. Until such time that something like this pops up in a video game, I will continue to be unfazed and label people as overreacting.

Or the actual rape scene from Clockwork Orange: If you've scene it, you'll know that that's properly uncomfortable.


The whole thing isn't even allowed on youtube so it sort of undermines my point but it'll have to do, but I mean it's not exactly /that/ horrific, but if it was more along those lines I could maybe understand the "controversy", but even then, they're the villains. They do villainous things...because y'know they're the FUCKING VILLAINS.

 

[Brainwreck]

It's not about the scene.
It's about how the studio threw it in a trailer (unless trailers are made by 3rd parties and the studio has no say over what gets put in?) and then handled the ensuing debacle with the all the grace of a cancer trainwreck.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I was really looking forward to that scene after all of Lara's moans and screams up to that point and he barely nudged her :/

Is there a creepiest forum post award? I think you should have it 5ilver. You've earned it.
[sub]Seriously though I would reword that comment before the FBI see it.[/sub]

I'm looking forward to playing this. Can't get on Steam atm 'cos I
stupidly forgot to bring my laptop charger back from uni with me,
so I've only got a shitty PC to work with. Lara now looks more
interesting than she was as mistress triangle-boobs.

 

[havoc33]

Play for just a leeeedle bit longer. It gets a tad worse in the rape department.

Which is really the worst department to work in, other than Human Resources.

Yeah, that controversy was stupid.

So many of them are. People just like to get angry about stuff, however ill-informed about it they actually are, and we end up with these flash-in-the-pan "controversies" that are really quite unimportant. I think it probably comes down to the internet, and the speed at which we receive and spread news. Without a forum or some other mass-sharing system, people would hear news and react at their own pace, but now all it takes is a few people to scream controversy and it'll snowball into a massive flamewar.

You hit it dead on. It really is embarrasing to see what kind of stuff causes 'controversy' and 'uproar' these days. Internet lends a voice to everyone, also the people who have nothing better to do than to complain and feed their own narcissistic selves by getting attention.

Also to blame is the media outlets themselves, who when it comes to their online editions show next to no editorial responsibility at all, and report ANYTHING to get hits on their sites in order to earn more money. But that's the internet for you, you got to take the good with the bad I suppose. I just wish people would be smart enought to see through these types of things for what it is instead of getting caught up in it. The internet should make people smarter and entice critical sense, but in many instances it would seem that the information overkill has the opposite effect.

 

[Legion]

So....you're telling me that so far we've had none of the giant outcries in the last 6 months of misogynistic games actually pan out.

can you re-explain that? what do you mean?

What I mean is that we've had all these outcries over trailers, developer interviews, etc where a hint of sexism was presented in a yet unreleased game. And people were absolutely losing their shit in each instance, and none of the stuff that people flipped out over was actually that bad. I mean the amount of omfg how dare this male use rape as a plot device he should lose his job, the game should sink, he's a misogynistic bastard! And it turned out to really be nothing of concern.
I don't know I think I'm just a little irked at the gaming community and how over reactionary. We get all these articles from different groups condemning video games when this kind of stuff hits the general public, but we never get the articles that are like "hey, we overreacted, it didn't end up being bad."

This is actually what I am beginning to get tired of. The gaming community is starting to feel like the target audience of Fox News or the Daily Mail. Where we are saturated full of stories and headlines of these most "terrible controversies" which almost always turn out to be borderline fabricated, or extremely over the top. Then people rage over them and make these things issues.

Apart from being irritating, they also take attention away from real issues that occur. I mean, on this website I hear about how Lara's non-existent rape scene is a sign that game developers have a problem with misogyny and sexism, yet have not seen anything mentioning the recent news that some British police have been encouraging victims of rape not to report it so the statistics look better. Or the fact that Amazon was selling 'Keep Calm' shirts that said things such as "Keep calm and rape a lot" until recently.

It's why I get so tired of discussions of sexism in gaming more than anything. When a fictional character having larger than average breasts is somebodies idea of a huge problem regarding sexism, I think they need to get a better sense of perspective.

Or to use another example. Remember the #1ReasonWhy campaign?. I wonder how many do. That discussed real controversies and real problems with sexism in the gaming industry, but people forget about that because it's much more fun to complain because some female characters are designed to titillate, rather than have a more important role.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Yeah I really don't get a lot of the criticism levelled at the first hour. I agree that the "rape scene" is just... nothing. If it weren't for the furore around it I wouldn't have given it a second thought. There are other criticisms I disagree with as well. For example you said you laughed at how sadistic the game is in the first hour. I've heard that a lot, but don't agree at all. I was playing the game and wondering when the "sadistic" parts I'd heard about were going to make an appearance. Then after a few hours I realised I must have passed those parts and not noticed. Maybe it's because I'm playing this just after finishing the fantastically gory Dead Space 3, I don't know, but I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about.

Critics have also almost unanimously panned Lara's transition from scared girl into headshot master in five minutes flat. Again, I'm at a loss as to what the problem is here. I think Lara's transformation is quite gradual by game standards. Nobody complained when Isaac Clarke (supposedly an engineer) first picked up a Plasma Cutter and instantly became a master at disecting necromorphs. Nobody complained when Gordon Freeman (supposedly a physicist) first picked up a gun and single-handedly fought off an entire special forces unit AND an alien invasion. Nobody complained... actually, need I go on? I think this new TR game is far more believable than most in this regard.

 

[Hiroshi Mishima]

weakness is a GOOD thing..more game charachters should have it

...yes, like Samus?

Also, regardless of the content in the game, it was a terribly handled incident at the time. I think some (or a lot) of you are either downplaying it due to the actual game's content not matching what everyone thought at the time. That's neither the point, nor is it necessary for it to have been so.

When someone releases a trailer implying a main character is going to be raped in order to show "oh, see, they have weaknesses" and "come on, boys, let's all protect her!" that's sending the wrong gods-damned message but also saying, "the only way we know to build female character development is to have her get be sexually assaulted".

Nevermind that Lara used to be quite promiscuous and flirted in the earlier games, her new background is "sexually assaulted, scarred forever, becomes gun-toting treasure hunter". It's almost laughably stupid, really. However, this is definitely the kind of thing we need to stamp out.

Controversial or not, offensive or not, it's still bad form and really needs to be dealt with.

EDIT: Oh yeah, as an afterthought.. did any of you even consider, for a moment, that the game's depictions were in any way .. changed, because of the massive outcry? It sounds like you didn't, which is perhaps another reason you're all failing to see why it was "such a big deal" at the time.

 

[Sexy Devil]

How the scene plays out is entirely irelevant.

The problem is that CD decided to put it right in the middle of the fucking trailer, then they decided to talk about it in an extremely creepy way.

Thing is, the controversy was never really about the scene itself. It's about the way that dev described it. You kind of got the feeling he was typing with one hand, if you take my meaning.

Exactly.

It was their choice to put it in the trailer. It was their choice to talk it up. They wanted to be edgy and adult and score some easy headlines and I'm glad it blew up in their faces.

Did the trailer really bother people that much though? I mean it was floating around for like 13-14 days before the controversy started (I may be wrong about that). It clearly showed Lara getting away without being raped. Seems like the real issue was, as you said, when the article with the creepy phrasing popped up. But the thing is that the developers posted a retraction like two days later saying that the producer was full of shit.

It's just that by that point all the major websites had reported on it, and everybody had already decided that they were angry.