Tomb Raider writer expressed an interest in making Lara gay?

[ZLAY]

So, the only way to write a lesbian character is to pander to horny male audience and/or to grab media attention?
The way some of you think is down right insulting.

If they do decide to portray romance sub plot well, I'm all for it.

I agree some of them think a gay character can't be written unless you make a big deal about them being gay.

My problem is there aren't enough tough straight female protagonists, not that it would be implausible/ ridiculous.

Same can be said with tough gay female protagonists.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

In the game you can find Sam's diary where she talks about her and Lara on a trip unexpectedly meeting cute young men to Lara's surprise and them having fun therefore. Rather on the nose really, they both like boys.

That's probably because they decided to not make her a lesbian for whatever reason, I'm pretty sure there'd be some changes in little details like that if they actually went with it. And, not having played the game, did this journal say that she was busily trying to fuck one of the cute young men, or just that the group had fun hanging out with each other? Because, if people in this thread are to be believed, a character doesn't have a sexual orientation unless it's shoved into the audience's face.

EDIT:

My problem is there aren't enough tough straight female protagonists, not that it would be implausible/ ridiculous.

Can you name all the tough, female, lesbian protagonists please? While I can't really think of any straight ones (though delving into some JRPGs would probably solve that), I can't think of any lesbian ones either

Well there are plenty of games where you can flirt with females or the female npc flirt with you just because the devs are lazy and didn't change the dialogue for the female character. In Kingdoms of Amalur your character even marries a woman because of this.

As an example: Vampire: The Masquerade ? Bloodlines, the player is able to play a female character and have implied (off screen) sexual relations with Jeanette, another female character. Also there is generally the possibility to flirt with same sex partners throughout the game and additionally there are also some more hints, that different characters have been involved in same-sex-activities.

JRPG's also have a lot of lesbian characters or imply that the female protagonist is gay.

Lesbians are much better catered to on average than straight female gamers.

 

[JediMB]

So if Sam's journal entry about her and Lara meeting some cute boys had also mentioned that Lara seemed more interested in the girls, that would have made the character more sexualized?

Yes.

Like it or not a character being gay or lesbian remains a character trait in a way that being heterosexual is not. Think of any popular entertainment medium - film, television, video games,comics - gay and lesbian characters are usually designated as The Gay Character (unless it is a specifically LGBT-interest piece) whereas hetero characters are never described as The Heterosexual Character. Alluding to Lara being a lesbian would make that her sexuality one of her distinctive character traits in a way that being heterosexual would not.

I'm not saying that's how it should be - I'm saying that's how it is.

That doesn't make the character more sexualized: it would just make her stand out from the perceived norm, which is something she already does simply by being a female protagonist.

The idea that straight, male, white, etc., are all unlisted default states, and only deviations from those are considered traits, is exactly the type of thing we need to fight. The first step is to not accept that view as reality.

 

[Glaice]

Lesbian, bisexual or straight, it wouldn't matter to me one bit.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Yep, exactly. This reboot has been about getting away from the tropes and cliches that have defined much of Lara's character in the past. If Lara was a lesbian, it would just be moving into that other hold trope that "bad-ass women are butch." UNLESS the writers REALLY know what they're doing and were able to introduce Lara as homosexual while dodging that trope, which is possible, but would be very difficult; as much as I enjoyed the new Tomb Raider and give credit to the writers, I don't think that Ms. Pratchett et. all are quite up to that task.

Wait, what? How would being a lesbian suddenly make Lara butch? Not that I give a damn about traditional definitions of masculinity or femininity. Either way, the reboot has already established Lara as an introverted archaeology geek, through Sam's journal entries. (Those same journals also heavily imply that both Sam and Lara are straight.)

And, of course, the true problem at hand is that video games don't have enough proper female protagonists. If there were more to begin with, we wouldn't have to spend this time discussing what sexual/romantic preferences are in most need of representation.

I didn't mean to say that making her a lesbian would automatically make her butch, I was trying to say that by making her a lesbian they would run the risk of venturing into the silly trope of "if a women is physically tough and capable, she's probably gay." I suppose I should have said it that way the first time, but "bad-ass women are butch" was a lot shorter. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

True,there's one game coming out in a couple of months called Remember Me that has a straight woman (has a boyfriend and everything) so if you're interested I recommend getting it when it comes out. I know I'm buying it because it looks to be a fun game and playing a game with a female lead that is'nt eye-candy is a bonus.

Yes I plan on buying it. Also Toki-Towa or (Time and Eternity) with a reasonable looking straight (or at least bi) female protag looks good too.

I wouldn't suddenly hate Lara if she was gay (that would be awful) but I do feel like straight women are a minority in video games and I would be sad if they changed her.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

So, the only way to write a lesbian character is to pander to horny male audience and/or to grab media attention?
The way some of you think is down right insulting.

If they do decide to portray romance sub plot well, I'm all for it.

I agree some of them think a gay character can't be written unless you make a big deal about them being gay.

My problem is there aren't enough tough straight female protagonists, not that it would be implausible/ ridiculous.

Same can be said with tough gay female protagonists.

Not really... there are plenty of gay women in videogames. Please see my post above. Lesbians are much better represented than straight women although that isn't saying much.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

So if Sam's journal entry about her and Lara meeting some cute boys had also mentioned that Lara seemed more interested in the girls, that would have made the character more sexualized?

Yes.

Like it or not a character being gay or lesbian remains a character trait in a way that being heterosexual is not. Think of any popular entertainment medium - film, television, video games,comics - gay and lesbian characters are usually designated as The Gay Character (unless it is a specifically LGBT-interest piece) whereas hetero characters are never described as The Heterosexual Character. Alluding to Lara being a lesbian would make that her sexuality one of her distinctive character traits in a way that being heterosexual would not.

I'm not saying that's how it should be - I'm saying that's how it is.

That doesn't make the character more sexualized: it would just make her stand out from the perceived norm, which is something she already does simply by being a female protagonist.

The idea that straight, male, white, etc., are all unlisted default states, and only deviations from those are considered traits, is exactly the type of thing we need to fight. The first step is to not accept that view as reality.

I hate to come off as contrary for the sake of being contrary, but that IS the reality. If one doesn't understand the reality one operates in, how can one change it?

Maybe it's philosophical semantics, but I think that the most effective activists are those who recognize, "This is the reality. This other approach is the way it should be. And I will do what I can to make the way it should be the new reality."

 

[cerebreturns]

A gay woman going around killing almost solely men.

Yeah...if this was reversed there would be scream of hate killings.

 

[JediMB]

I hate to come off as contrary for the sake of being contrary, but that IS the reality. If one doesn't understand the reality one operates in, how can one change it?

Maybe it's philosophical semantics, but I think that the most effective activists are those who recognize, "This is the reality. This other approach is the way it should be. And I will do what I can to make the way it should be the new reality."

I'm saying that there's a difference between a character actually being more sexualized and that people may perceive a character as being more sexualized.

EDIT: And not letting that perception control one's writing.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Well there are plenty of games where you can flirt with females or the female npc flirt with you just because the devs are lazy and didn't change the dialogue for the female character. In Kingdoms of Amalur your character even marries a woman because of this.

As an example: Vampire: The Masquerade ? Bloodlines, the player is able to play a female character and have implied (off screen) sexual relations with Jeanette, another female character. Also there is generally the possibility to flirt with same sex partners throughout the game and additionally there are also some more hints, that different characters have been involved in same-sex-activities.

JRPG's also have a lot of lesbian characters or imply that the female protagonist is gay.

Lesbians are much better catered to on average than straight female gamers.

First off, isn't Kingdom's of Amalur a game where you can choose to be straight or gay? If it is it applies to the same rules as Bioware games; if you can choose whether they're straight or gay, then they shouldn't count towards this.

After that, you listed one game and then said that plenty of JRPGs have lesbian characters or imply that the protagonist is gay. The thing is, I'm pretty sure that straight women outnumber lesbians if we're going to refer to all characters, not just the protagonist, and implying homosexuality isn't the same as being homosexual; if it's really heavily implied (because, as people have said, you don't have to make homosexuality a big deal unless you apply to bullshit logic about how you have to) I'll give it to you, but that requires some actual evidence and not just your interpretation.

Also, you shouldn't assert your conclusion like it's a fact after only providing one valid example.

No it isn't an rpg where you can choose your sexuality. It's be a lesbian or nothing (and you actually have to do it to be able to finish a questline). One of the major female NPC constantly implies you had a relationship and flirts with you also. Straight women maybe out number lesbians if you count every npc under the sun but when it comes to protagonists there are definitely more lesbians or at least implied lesbians than straight women who have an on screen relationship.

(I'm not saying the devs do this deliberately for gay women by any means but it's a side effect of them catering for the male audience)

To be fair both type of protagonist are vastly outnumbered by straight guys and the poor gay guys hardly even get a look in.

 

[m19]

Why, actually it implied Lara and Sam were meeting "cute boys" (in Sam's words, not Lara's), in which Lara was initially uninterested in and it came with no reference to what happened with them.

That's just needlessly convoluted when it's easily evident why cute boys are in there at all.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

I hate to come off as contrary for the sake of being contrary, but that IS the reality. If one doesn't understand the reality one operates in, how can one change it?

Maybe it's philosophical semantics, but I think that the most effective activists are those who recognize, "This is the reality. This other approach is the way it should be. And I will do what I can to make the way it should be the new reality."

I'm saying that there's a difference between a character actually being more sexualized and that people may perceive a character as being more sexualized.

EDIT: And not letting that perception control one's writing.

If one writes with no regard for how one's audience perceives it, one's message will probably be lost.

 

[ZLAY]

So, the only way to write a lesbian character is to pander to horny male audience and/or to grab media attention?
The way some of you think is down right insulting.

If they do decide to portray romance sub plot well, I'm all for it.

I agree some of them think a gay character can't be written unless you make a big deal about them being gay.

My problem is there aren't enough tough straight female protagonists, not that it would be implausible/ ridiculous.

Same can be said with tough gay female protagonists.

Not really... there are plenty of gay women in videogames. Please see my post above. Lesbians are much better represented than straight women although that isn't saying much.

In KOA Reckoning the devs were lazy as all hell and didn't fixed the dialogue for female character, and yes you are basically forced to marry a girl and sleep with her in Dead Kel dlc - on this we can agree on. But the thing is just that: They were lazy. They didn't try to write lesbian protagonist and make a relatable gay character.

Also, in games like Dragon Age, Fallout, Amalur and Vampire the Masquerade, you make your own character that is often a blank slate.

Name at least one full fledged, well written and relatable lesbian protagonist in video games.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Saying those things don't count is a bit of a fallacy though isn't it since it's still catering to lesbian gamers albeit indirectly. (which in my defense I pointed out above) Straight women don't get that perk.

Fang and Vanille from Final Fantasy 13 where heavily implied to be in a relationship. I think I feel pretty confident providing them as an example.

Make a new gay female character by all means but don't start depriving straight women of the few we have.

 

[JediMB]

I hate to come off as contrary for the sake of being contrary, but that IS the reality. If one doesn't understand the reality one operates in, how can one change it?

Maybe it's philosophical semantics, but I think that the most effective activists are those who recognize, "This is the reality. This other approach is the way it should be. And I will do what I can to make the way it should be the new reality."

I'm saying that there's a difference between a character actually being more sexualized and that people may perceive a character as being more sexualized.

EDIT: And not letting that perception control one's writing.

If one writes with no regard for how one's audience perceives it, one's message will probably be lost.

Thank you for completely removing my statement from its context, and making generalizations from that.

EDIT: If I ever write anything involving gay characters, I'll make sure to take into account that a lot of people see them as abominations against their god.