I'm 16 now and have been programming off and on (due to school and what not) for about a year now, yet all the time I see people who have been programming since they were 12 or even something like 8, obviously having a much larger lead on me. I'm wondering, will I always be behind these people? I one day hope to be a Game programmer/designer but I hope that the fact that I didn't start at an early age doesn't mean that I'll always be behind those that did.
Too old to begin the training?
- Thread starter Cranyx
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No. You are never too old to pick something up. You will not always be behind them.
It may seem initially frustrating that they have such a head start on you but that doesn't mean you won't be able to catch up with them.
Trust me, in the grand scale of life their slight advantage won't mean much of anything. As you build your skill set, you'll be able to compete with them as a peer. You just have to believe in your skills and be willing to invest the effort into learning.
/sappyinspirationalspeech
It may seem initially frustrating that they have such a head start on you but that doesn't mean you won't be able to catch up with them.
Trust me, in the grand scale of life their slight advantage won't mean much of anything. As you build your skill set, you'll be able to compete with them as a peer. You just have to believe in your skills and be willing to invest the effort into learning.
/sappyinspirationalspeech
You are not too old to begin. I wouldn't worry about it. Also, you won't always be behind by any means. Another thing is no matter how skilled you are at something there is always a multitude of people better than you. Just improve your skill at your own pace and don't compare yourself to others.Cranyx said:
A lot of it is a time and effort thing. You won't necessarily be behind them, and if you're 16, you probably haven't even missed any chances for formalized education on it, either. (My HS had precisely one CS class offered, for example.) The real thing is that a lot of those people tinker with computers for fun and/or program for fun and, like, that's their primary hobby. You probably won't catch up completely with the "primary hobby" folks unless you do that yourself but, frankly, you really don't need to. Besides, I've found that, if programming makes sense, you will have an easy time until you get to the really hard concepts that they have classes devoted to in college.
As was observed earlier Java is a reasonable place to start. It has a lot of boilerplate that it foists on you, but there are some reasons that it is often a teaching language. Also, making things with a graphical user interface is relatively trivial, which is an advantage over just about every other language out there, for toy projects, IMO.
I'd also recommend Python. It's powerful, but it reads sort of like plain English. It doesn't have the boilerplate that Java does, for one thing. Being a scripting language, it probably scales worse than Java, but that doesn't matter except for production code.
The radicals on the internet will tell you that you ought to learn a Lisp dialect (Scheme is a good choice, I hear) because Real Programmers know Lisp and it makes you a better programmer. The logic is sort of like that of "learn Latin because it will make your English better." It might be true, but functional programming is pretty cool in concept and rarely used for anything but toy functional programming projects. (The joke when I was in school was that the primary use for ML is to write ML compilers.)
Finally, come up with a not-too-ambitious project that actually interests you. Something you think you can achieve and you'd like to have. I find I don't actually practice a language without such motivation, and the only ways to do that are to take classes (have to use it) or come up with an application you really want and then work on it.
As was observed earlier Java is a reasonable place to start. It has a lot of boilerplate that it foists on you, but there are some reasons that it is often a teaching language. Also, making things with a graphical user interface is relatively trivial, which is an advantage over just about every other language out there, for toy projects, IMO.
I'd also recommend Python. It's powerful, but it reads sort of like plain English. It doesn't have the boilerplate that Java does, for one thing. Being a scripting language, it probably scales worse than Java, but that doesn't matter except for production code.
The radicals on the internet will tell you that you ought to learn a Lisp dialect (Scheme is a good choice, I hear) because Real Programmers know Lisp and it makes you a better programmer. The logic is sort of like that of "learn Latin because it will make your English better." It might be true, but functional programming is pretty cool in concept and rarely used for anything but toy functional programming projects. (The joke when I was in school was that the primary use for ML is to write ML compilers.)
Finally, come up with a not-too-ambitious project that actually interests you. Something you think you can achieve and you'd like to have. I find I don't actually practice a language without such motivation, and the only ways to do that are to take classes (have to use it) or come up with an application you really want and then work on it.
Ditto on my Alma Mater. And my adviser when I was there is an avid Magic the Gathering fan. Suffice to say, we hit it off really well. Java is confusing at times, but it's a lot cleaner than other programming languages. C++, I'm looking at you over there...endnuen said:
Also, if you want to get into game design, find a subset to focus on. Do you want to be programming physics engines? Or do you want to be making levels? There's multiple paths you can take. Rendering and modeling would fall more on the graphic design class tree, while Comp Sci is more building the framework that a game needs to thrive.
Believe me you aren't too old, i did my first bit of programming (low level machine code, and visual basic) for a few college assignments, this is when i was 17/18, i'm now 20 and at university doing a Computing Science BSc doing pretty much all programming and a few forensic modules. You'll be fine, it's hard to start with but once you understand the concept and the basics it gets easier.
I graduated with a Comp Sci major/Math minor. Tbh, the programming skills will help you with getting on the same page as the engine developers, but will teach you little to nothing in the way of level design. If you go for Graphic Design, you would handle more of the level layout, character modeling, and that sort of stuff. Now, you can take this next bit with a grain of salt, but the level design positions I've seen available want a prior portfolio to look at. Having worked on a mod in the Unreal engine or done custom maps in Starcraft goes a long way in this regard. A GD major/minor will at least help you start a portfolio, though you'll need to slog through the drawing and other stuff to get to the rendering and photoshop side of things. The more projects you've worked on, the better. If you lurk on /b/ or /w/ and make wallpapers or shoops, those could almost qualify if they're done really well. You also have to watch out for copyright infringement with that stuff. You have been warned.Cranyx said:
From what you've told me about what you want to do, I think you should be looking into Graphic Design over Comp Sci. Going Comp Sci not necessarily a bad course of action, mind. You'd be fighting for jobs from better qualified people. It's doable, though it's probably not what you wanted to hear.
For programming, the choice of language isn't the issue, it's understanding the logic behind how computers operate, making the best use of it in the fewest steps possible, and making your code easy to read and understand for future maintenance.
While a lot of game programming is in C/C++, good programmer types can adapt to any language and some will pick up Lua, UnrealScript or Python since many game engines or tools make use of them.
Some good notes to keep in mind are: make it efficient, Keep It Simple, Stupid, and review your code as if you were a new person six months from now.
Another thing to remember is that we program because we like to do so - making the time and coding something up til 4am, JUST BECAUSE. We are driven by two things: a) when encountering a problem, understanding what the problem is, and b) mastering the problem with a solution, in the form of a tool, code, bug fix, whatever.
A lot of days I've stayed late to complete some task, and often when walking around the halls at Bioware or Volition, I'll see other programmer types also staying late working on stuff. And when striking up a conversation with them about work or personal projects, it often ending up with "I've been playing game X/working on OUR game, it does this and this, and has an interface for that, so I'm gonna write a tool to help me do that in an easier manner."
... like writing a Minecraft importer for the toolset.
... Or a Max to TF2 map exporter.
While a lot of game programming is in C/C++, good programmer types can adapt to any language and some will pick up Lua, UnrealScript or Python since many game engines or tools make use of them.
Some good notes to keep in mind are: make it efficient, Keep It Simple, Stupid, and review your code as if you were a new person six months from now.
Another thing to remember is that we program because we like to do so - making the time and coding something up til 4am, JUST BECAUSE. We are driven by two things: a) when encountering a problem, understanding what the problem is, and b) mastering the problem with a solution, in the form of a tool, code, bug fix, whatever.
A lot of days I've stayed late to complete some task, and often when walking around the halls at Bioware or Volition, I'll see other programmer types also staying late working on stuff. And when striking up a conversation with them about work or personal projects, it often ending up with "I've been playing game X/working on OUR game, it does this and this, and has an interface for that, so I'm gonna write a tool to help me do that in an easier manner."
... like writing a Minecraft importer for the toolset.
... Or a Max to TF2 map exporter.
There is always going to be someone better but if you can make good grades in the college courses and apply what you know to your job then whats the point of saying they started earlier. If they want to enter the working world with a good start they have to go through the same college courses.
i felt the same way when i started learning martial arts at 18, i was always pessimistic that i'd never be as good as other's who started such things when they were kids. If your determined enough to do the work then you can do itCranyx said: