Toxic Game Designers and Publishers

[Saelune]

Judging the entirety of people who play video games is like judging the entire internet, or everyone who watches TV or movies, or everyone who reads books.

Some books are Green Eggs and Ham, some books are Atlas Shrugged, some books are Harry Potter, some books teach you how to cook.

More hot take though, people who 'reject the gamer label' aren't helping, cause the gamer label is as descriptive as 'someone who likes books'.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

snip

I didn't want to do this, but...

5. Is THAT [https://i.redd.it/92pzrok960e31.png] charged question your definition of legitimate? (Penguin seems less concerned about being able to get the game, and more about calling him out in bad faith) If that's the case, then we better wrap up this discussion, because we'll never agree.

Gamers may need to be defended from many things; but not from Ben.

PS: "Rust red horses" isn't shorthand for "all horses are rust red".

Ok, I hate to do this as well, but perhaps this is where the impasse must be drawn.

I literally read the words "I wanted to by the game, but now I'm 100% unable since I don't have the means to do so, does not wanting to support Epic Games make me an entitled angry child just because my country isn't allowed to buy games in my own currency?

... That seems to me to be that he's concerned about not being able to get the game due to EGS's practices. This man literally can't buy games from EGS. Yes, that's a completely legitimate reason to be upset. "Epic Game Store isn't Steam" isn't that valid of a reason, even though I get the sentiment. "Epic Game Store does not accept the only currency I have" is a very legitimate reason to be upset over the move to making the game an Epic Game Store exclusive if he was going to buy the game before.

I absolutely agree with you that Gamers don't need to be defended from Ben. But Ben isn't above reproach just because he's apart of a small team of developers. He was condescending and (in other posts) maligned gamers. He got called out for it. Like anyone condescending will be. Like you and I would if we did the same. You shake a Hornet's nest, don't call the more feisty Hornets 'entitled babies' if they sting.

But really, back to my point. There's a gulf between perception if you can look at that exchange and not see someone upset that he can't get the game because Epic Game Store won't allow him. We can continue if you'd like, but at that I doubt understanding can be reached between us.

Hell, I'd be interested in other people's takes on it as well. Very well, I could be wrong. But if that's so, my entire perception will need to be re-calibrated.

 

[Hawki]

More hot take though, people who 'reject the gamer label' aren't helping, cause the gamer label is as descriptive as 'someone who likes books'.

I refuse to call myself a gamer. However I felt about the term before, Gamergate saw to that.

But even if it never happened, I doubt I would. People can call themselves "gamers" if they want - certainly people base their lives around the medium in some cases. But I do far more than just play games.

 

[CaitSeith]

snip

I didn't want to do this, but...

5. Is THAT [https://i.redd.it/92pzrok960e31.png] charged question your definition of legitimate? (Penguin seems less concerned about being able to get the game, and more about calling him out in bad faith) If that's the case, then we better wrap up this discussion, because we'll never agree.

Gamers may need to be defended from many things; but not from Ben.

PS: "Rust red horses" isn't shorthand for "all horses are rust red".

Ok, I hate to do this as well, but perhaps this is where the impasse must be drawn.

I literally read the words "I wanted to by the game, but now I'm 100% unable since I don't have the means to do so, does not wanting to support Epic Games make me an entitled angry child just because my country isn't allowed to buy games in my own currency?

... That seems to me to be that he's concerned about not being able to get the game due to EGS's practices. This man literally can't buy games from EGS. Yes, that's a completely legitimate reason to be upset. "Epic Game Store isn't Steam" isn't that valid of a reason, even though I get the sentiment. "Epic Game Store does not accept the only currency I have" is a very legitimate reason to be upset over the move to making the game an Epic Game Store exclusive if he was going to buy the game before.

I absolutely agree with you that Gamers don't need to be defended from Ben. But Ben isn't above reproach just because he's apart of a small team of developers. He was condescending and (in other posts) maligned gamers. He got called out for it. Like anyone condescending will be. Like you and I would if we did the same. You shake a Hornet's nest, don't call the more feisty Hornets 'entitled babies' if they sting.

But really, back to my point. There's a gulf between perception if you can look at that exchange and not see someone upset that he can't get the game because Epic Game Store won't allow him. We can continue if you'd like, but at that I doubt understanding can be reached between us.

Hell, I'd be interested in other people's takes on it as well. Very well, I could be wrong. But if that's so, my entire perception will need to be re-calibrated.

If Penguin's post had been just the first sentence, I would totally agree with you. But it isn't; it goes from "I'm worried I won't be able to buy this game" to "who are you calling entitled manbaby!?". If it isn't a bad faith question, it's a very least a rude one that was just answered in kind.

Being how he has always been referring to the harassers and enablers, Ben never maligned the majority of gamers. I'm tired of people insisting that I got maligned when it wasn't the case. Have a nice day.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

If Penguin's post had been just the first sentence, I would totally agree with you. But it isn't; it goes from "I'm worried I won't be able to buy this game" to "who are you calling entitled manbaby!?". If it isn't a bad faith question, it's a very least a rude one that was just answered in kind.

Being how he has always been referring to the harassers and enablers, Ben never maligned the majority of gamers. I'm tired of people insisting that I got maligned when it wasn't the case. Have a nice day.

Hey, you as well. Thank you for taking the time out to discuss this with me.

 

[BrawlMan]

More hot take though, people who 'reject the gamer label' aren't helping, cause the gamer label is as descriptive as 'someone who likes books'.

I refuse to call myself a gamer. However I felt about the term before, Gamergate saw to that.

But even if it never happened, I doubt I would. People can call themselves "gamers" if they want - certainly people base their lives around the medium in some cases. But I do far more than just play games.

While I do more than just play games, I am not afraid to call myself a gamer. I don't give a shit about the gamergate/anti-gamergate bullshit. That whole fiasco solved nothing and made things worse for everyone. The only "good" thing out of it was that it showed shitty gaming journalism (not that I needed gg to figure that out) and that Anita Sarkeesian was later discovered to be a fraud. But that is less gamergate and more she kept fucking up, failed to deliver on her promises, and took all of her supporters money wasting it.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

Ah yes, the game industry, the people who treat gamers, and devs alike like shit.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Frankly, I wish more figureheads and spokespeople in the gaming industry would finally put their foot down and start advocating gamers to say "they're not entitled to your money or your feedback, speak with your wallet and stop feeding the beast". Spreading the word of industry and media toxicity is as far as this should go, but with the urging at every level to not engage or buy.