Trailers: Hitman: Absolution - Saints Trailer

[geizr]

While partly true, the ones that still wear the more traditional style habit (aka, what this trailer shows) tend to be located in more isolated locations that rarely, if ever, interact with the outside world.

I think it depends a lot on the church and not on location in many places. I live in the city and you see both attires, and we are hardly isolated.

And this is why video gaming will never be taken seriously.

>implying we are insecure to the point we need people to take our hobbies seriously
>implying that the Hitman trailer isn't a lot more serious than 70% of the videogames released

I hope you were using that sentence in a sarcastic way or that I took it out of context, because it really rustled my jimmies.

You took my statement out of context.

 

[ElPatron]

You took my statement out of context.

Okay.

Then care to elaborate? Because looking at the games released in the past 30 years I would be somewhat of an hypocrite by considering this trailer the flagship of immaturity.

Or is the fact that people are over-analyzing things and judging the game before release?

Because without proper context your post seems like it's purpose was just rustling jimmies.

 

[Podunk]

I guess the point is that even when faced with incredibly retarded enemies, Agent 47 is still a ruthlessly efficient killer? You know, it would have made sense if they were actually nuns, considering he has a past with that one missionary. I know everyone is supposed to hate this with the entirety of their being, but I can't help but think 'yup, that's what I would do if I was playing the game, distract a group of enemies with an explosion to take them out sneakily, using my pistol because it's small, deadly, and efficient.' I hope this game will be good.

 

[hippo24]

You see, on the surface you might think that the trailer is silly. But Scantily clad nuns would be a perfectly reasonable weapon to fight a man who survives by subtly infiltrating the ranks of his enemies...I think they are really on to something here.

 

[=Doc=]

Right..

First off, I am glad David Bateson is not involved with this game. It will make it a lot easier to just not think of it as a Hitman game if I decide to play it.

It doesn't look like a bad game based on what I've seen so far, but it is too much of a shift for me to think of this as a Hitman game.

But my skepticism has more to do with the story rather than the gameplay.

I don't need 47 at his 'lowest point'. I don't need to have one of two recurring support characters killed off. I don't need his former employers to turn on him.

I do not need these stupid changes in my beloved franchise!

ICA, Diane and agent Smith where there to give 47 a purpose and a place in the world. Taking them away will not help you tell a better story.

Then again, telling a better story is probably not what they are going for. Telling a brand new story, on the other hand..

You know what? This should have been a reboot, not a sequel.
They should have rebooted this fucker. I'm not saying I would be less disappointed if they did, but it would make several things a lot easier to swallow.
New voice actor, new face, no Diana, no ICA, more over-the-top action than usual.
In a reboot, no problem. In the existing franchise, big problem!

Or, even better, Make it a remake!
Remake the first game, make ICA an untrustworthy organization from the git-go, build up Dianas character in such a way that it will make great sense to kill her off, maybe drop that Asian prostitute that kinda didn't fit into the first game because she was kinda silly and tried to kiss 47 after he rescued her?
Also, if we're remaking, how about tying the game closer to the movie? We could remove the 'super clone assassin' bit and replace it with an organization training orphans as assassins! Maybe we can have him team up with that prostitute from the film and have her be a love interest as well!

 

[geizr]

You took my statement out of context.

Okay.

Then care to elaborate? Because looking at the games released in the past 30 years I would be somewhat of an hypocrite by considering this trailer the flagship of immaturity.

Or is the fact that people are over-analyzing things and judging the game before release?

Because without proper context your post seems like it's purpose was just rustling jimmies.

It's not a matter of secure or insecure; it's more a matter whether video games will be used as a form of expression that is enabled to explore concepts, philosophies, socio-political issues, or to explore other modes of the human experience, hence more fulfilling its potential as a medium, rather than always reducing to base "violence porn". It's not so much whether the rest of the world is seeing it this way; it's a matter of whether the game developers themselves, as well as gamers, are seeing the medium such to elevate the hobby to a more life-enriching level. It's not so much that this trailer is the pinnacle example, but more that it is a continuing example of the long history of video games tending to not venture past this kind of shallow, base pandering to 14-year-old male hormone. It's a question of whether video gaming will ever go past this such people (by which I mean gamers and non-gamers alike) can think critically and converse rationally about video games without devolving into arguments and conflicts resulting from prejudices, distorted perceptions, and misinformed preconceptions which are derived from such constant tasteless, tacky presentation.

Honestly, as far as jimmy rustling, it seems to me that jimmies should be more rustled at the fact that this trailer presents the perception of what the game developers and their marketing team think of gamers. Again, this is not a matter of being secure or insecure. It's a matter of determining the desired mode of interaction with others and performing the actions and presenting oneself in a manner that achieves the goal of realizing that desired mode. If one desires to be treated as a child, then one acts like a child. If one desires to be treated as a responsible adult, then one acts as a responsible adult. It has nothing to do with being secure in oneself and more to do with simply controlling the social environment such to achieve a particular goal.

More clearly, is this the kind of game we want developers to continue creating, or do we want developers to think beyond this and produce games that go beyond this kind of mere pandering? If no effort is made to change the perception of game developers that this is only kind of game that will appeal to games (and, hence, sell), then this kind of game is all they will continue to produce. If the gaming community is fine with that, then carry on. However, if the gaming community is not fine with that, then it is up to the community to change the perception and interaction such that a wider gamut of games will be considered to be viable for production. Again, this is not a matter of being secure or insecure in oneself; it's a matter of determining how the interaction proceeds and what we get out of it.

My statement was not to "rustle jimmies", in any way. It was more a expression of my own desire to see video gaming go beyond its current very narrow bounds to realize a potential of expression and exploration that can be more educational, thought-provoking, and informative than base pandering to the lowest common denominator. This is not to say that there can not be games that are just "violence porn"; it is more to say that we should throw other things into the mix. Let's get away from the steady diet of just one kind of thing and diversify to a wider pallet of possibilities.

That's what I mean by taking it more seriously. I just didn't want to write a wall-of-text on the issue. However, my being pithy is causing you to misinterpret my meaning and intent; so, since it is my own desire to avoid such miscommunication, I am forced to generate this wall-of-text in an effort to clarify my position (that is, achieving my own goal of avoiding miscommunication and the resulting conflicts that can occur). If I had not responded in this manner, how would you deal with my words in future communications? Would you take them seriously?

 

[ElPatron]

Snip Hard 2: Snip Harder

The problem is that your post partially assumes that gaming is still inside narrow bounds. It is not. Maybe it's easy to forget that many games have shattered the "bounds".

Just because you or me were 14 year olds a few years ago, doesn't mean that no new 14 year olds are playing. They also have a place in this industry, for better or worse they actually consume M rated games.

Which reminds me... Only a small percentage of games released actually have the M rating.

There is stupid, shitty music and stupid, shitty movies. Gaming is no different. Machete absolutely sucked, doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy it as the over the top self-parody it was. "Violence-porn"? Suit yourself. I judge entertainment content for the entertainment value.

You can't make gaming the equivalent of books or movies. People have tried and they have failed.

 

[geizr]

Snip Hard 2: Snip Harder

The problem is that your post partially assumes that gaming is still inside narrow bounds. It is not. Maybe it's easy to forget that many games have shattered the "bounds".

Just because you or me were 14 year olds a few years ago, doesn't mean that no new 14 year olds are playing. They also have a place in this industry, for better or worse they actually consume M rated games.

Which reminds me... Only a small percentage of games released actually have the M rating.

There is stupid, shitty music and stupid, shitty movies. Gaming is no different. Machete absolutely sucked, doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy it as the over the top self-parody it was. "Violence-porn"? Suit yourself. I judge entertainment content for the entertainment value.

You can't make gaming the equivalent of books or movies. People have tried and they have failed.

And yet, many more have not tread outside those bounds. It's not about an M rating; a game rated G can have a lot of depth and expression. It's about the approach that is taken to themes and subjects within the game. Also, if you read my response carefully, you will see that I admit that games such as Hitman are allowed to exist. I do not have a problem with the occasional panderous or silly or "violence porn" type game, per se. That's simply spanning the gamut of possibilities. My problem comes when that seems to be the only kind of thing that, at least, the larger developers and publishers are willing and able to produce. The gaming diet becomes too monotonous.

Yes, there are going to be shitty games and panderous games, as well there will be more enlightened games. That is a given. The question is to what percentage of mixture of each do we strive. My perception is that the game industry is striving to much toward a greater mix of the panderous games. However, if you feel that my perception on that is wrong, then that is simply a point where we have a disagreement of viewpoint.

I don't desire for gaming to be like books or movies because the medium does not operate like a book or movie. However, it is a mode of expression and communication that has a potentiality that transcends the type of medium and is much greater than what I have seen done. However, I do not perceive the game industry as really striving toward realizing that potentiality. Again, if you disagree with that, then it is simply a point on which we have a difference of opinion.

 

[ElPatron]

And yet, many more have not tread outside those bounds. It's not about an M rating; a game rated G can have a lot of depth and expression.

I was just saying that those games stay fresh in our minds even though most games are not violent.

It's about the approach that is taken to themes and subjects within the game. Also, if you read my response carefully, you will see that I admit that games such as Hitman are allowed to exist. I do not have a problem with the occasional panderous or silly or "violence porn" type game, per se. That's simply spanning the gamut of possibilities. My problem comes when that seems to be the only kind of thing that, at least, the larger developers and publishers are willing and able to produce. The gaming diet becomes too monotonous.

Don't expect publishers to take risks.

What do you think it would make more revenue? A making new Micheal Bay movie or funding a guy that might be the next Lars von Trier but who can't guarantee you profit?

Hey, I hate the fact that Call of Duty has been released under different names for years as much as anyone can possibly hate. But I just have to accept it that it's what people are willing to pay for.

Yes, there are going to be shitty games and panderous games, as well there will be more enlightened games. That is a given. The question is to what percentage of mixture of each do we strive. My perception is that the game industry is striving to much toward a greater mix of the panderous games.

But like I said, M rated games are a minority. The percentage is very low.


I still think that violence-porn isn't the right way to characterize the trailer or the Hitman game itself. Hostel is torture/violence-porn. Hitman glorifies stealthy/creative kills and glamorizes assassinations.

In the trailer you see strangling, punching, nose-breaking and shooting. It's hardly violence porn, and it's stretching a lot compared to previous Hitman games.

 

[RJ Dalton]

That looks incredibly stupid. Who is this trailer aimed at? 13 year olds?

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

I don't get why people are offended by this, but I find it delightful that they are. I love it when mere video game trailers are enough to shake people's fragile egos.

Most parts in Hitman don't go down like this, at least not when I play. Normally the nuns would walk up to the hotel all ready to unleash hell saying "Aw yeah, we're fuckin' badass" and would pay no mind to the kindly janitor walking by them. They'd blow up the hotel, and in the confusion of the explosion, notice that their car and all of it's stuff was missing.

See, its true that this trailer misrepresents the game. I love the stealth aspects of Hitman, because there are a ton of third person shooters out there, but not one of them lets you do what you've been able to do in the past Hitman games. Hopefully Absolution will do the series justice - some of us have been waiting for this sequel for a long time.

 

[Taunta]

Slutty assassin nuns....ugh, you're serious, aren't you? I'm sorry, I must have taken a wrong turn and ended up in middle school.

 

[geizr]

--snip--

I'll give you that calling it "violence porn" was probably an exaggeration on my part; however, I still feel the trailer is in poor taste and is a continuing example of a bad precedent.

EDIT: had to clean up the snipped quote.

 

[BenEEeee]

This is why you don't hire strippers to do an assassin's job.

 

[ElPatron]

Slutty assassin nuns....ugh, you're serious, aren't you? I'm sorry, I must have taken a wrong turn and ended up in middle school.

Some people are in middle school.

continuing example of a bad precedent.

The "bad precedent" has been established. The Hitman trailer did nothing special at all, it was just released in a time everyone is hung up on how hung up games are "art" and how many times they can say "misogynistic" like if they were playing "Zitch Dog".

I remember when it was Fox News bitching about the ability to punch prostitutes in GTA. Now it's gamers themselves.

Nobody complained when Prince of Persia Warrior Within had flexible girls in leather moaning "There is so much pleasure in pain..." while you were trying to slice them in half.

Maybe we can have him team up with that prostitute from the film and have her be a love interest as well!

Hitman... Love interest...? Does not compute.

 

[Taunta]

Slutty assassin nuns....ugh, you're serious, aren't you? I'm sorry, I must have taken a wrong turn and ended up in middle school.

Some people are in middle school.

continuing example of a bad precedent.

The "bad precedent" has been established. The Hitman trailer did nothing special at all, it was just released in a time everyone is hung up on how hung up games are "art" and how many times they can say "misogynistic" like if they were playing "Zitch Dog".

I remember when it was Fox News bitching about the ability to punch prostitutes in GTA. Now it's gamers themselves.

Nobody complained when Prince of Persia Warrior Within had flexible girls in leather moaning "There is so much pleasure in pain..." while you were trying to slice them in half.

And the some people in middle school should not be playing this game.

This has nothing to do with games as an art form. No, it didn't do anything special, but it should be called out because these attitudes are not acceptable anymore. The times, they are a-changin.

 

[ElPatron]

And the some people in middle school should not be playing this game.

And they shouldn't be playing Modern Warfare either! I admit that I played +18 games since I was 12, it would be highly hypocritical of me to say that it's unacceptable to let them play.

This is something I have said on other threads. I refuse to say anything against pirates (not piracy as a whole) because I know that during the 90's it was socially acceptable to rip tapes and later CD's. Heck, they used to have labels saying that lending cassettes or showing them in schools was prohibited - and we did it anyway. I know that many people who rail against pirates in this forum are complete hypocrites because they stole music when they were younger and they know it. They just think "it's different now".

This has nothing to do with games as an art form. No, it didn't do anything special, but it should be called out because these attitudes are not acceptable anymore. The times, they are a-changin.

They aren't acceptable anymore... by your standards. I can't find anything on the trailer that is unacceptable except the fact that it shows Hitman in a more action-oriented fight.

 

[Taunta]

And the some people in middle school should not be playing this game.

And they shouldn't be playing Modern Warfare either! I admit that I played +18 games since I was 12, it would be highly hypocritical of me to say that it's unacceptable to let them play.

This has nothing to do with games as an art form. No, it didn't do anything special, but it should be called out because these attitudes are not acceptable anymore. The times, they are a-changin.

They aren't acceptable anymore... by your standards. I can't find anything on the trailer that is unacceptable except the fact that it shows Hitman in a more action-oriented fight.

No they shouldn't. No one's arguing that they should, so your point is irrelevant.

It's not just me. There is an overwhelming number of people who don't like this, so I'd say it's a wider standard than mine.

As for your last statement, if you can't see anything wrong with "hey, it's a woman, let's ogle her ass in the countless butt and tit shots, maybe jack off, and then watch her be brutally murdered FOR FUN!" it's because you are exactly the kind of person that this trailer is pandering to, and you can't possibly understand why it would be alienating to someone else from a different perspective. I have nothing more to say here, other than maybe you need to check your privilege. [http://kotaku.com/5868595/nerds-and-male-privilege]

 

[ElPatron]

No they shouldn't. No one's arguing that they should, so your point is irrelevant.

My point is not irrelevant because they WILL be playing the game. Underage gamers are still a big share of the market, and they are responsible for a respectable chunk of the profits of games like Call of Duty.

What about the Dead Space "the game your mother hates" campaign?

It's not just me. There is an overwhelming number of people who don't like this, so I'd say it's a wider standard than mine.

Many people said they didn't like it/thought it was in poor taste. You were the first to say it was unacceptable.

As for your last statement, if you can't see anything wrong with "hey, it's a woman, let's ogle her ass in the countless butt and tit shots, maybe jack off

I did not notice we traveled back to the 1800's. I must inform the local BDSM dungeons and peep-shows that what they are doing is immoral.

and then watch her be brutally murdered

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense

They were going to blast him to pieces with an RPG7. There was hardly any malice.

it's because you are exactly the kind of person that this trailer is pandering to

Hey.

I am not an asshole to the point of demanding that you should read all of my posts on other threads about this trailer where I obviously disagreed with the tone that the trailer was taking.

But I'm not going to jump at people when I have no idea of what their opinion is. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. You don't like it, fine.

But your http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem made it VERY personal, and just from that little bit of text I could understand that you're the kind of person that I don't argue with for obvious reasons.

Like Jim Sterling said on his recent video, you're one of those who are itching to reveal how they are aware of what the hot issues are. You're not gaining anything by insulting people on the internet.

and you can't possibly understand why it would be alienating to someone else from a different perspective. I have nothing more to say here, other than maybe you need to check your privilege. [http://kotaku.com/5868595/nerds-and-male-privilege]

Link to Kotaku? Ew.

Couldn't bother to read past the point he said "I am a white male". Yeah. THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING! That works when you're Chris Rock and you make fun of black people. Because Chris Rock isn't supposed to be taken seriously.

I don't want to disrespect the guy who wrote it mainly because I don't know him, but what he wrote made me lose all interest and respect I might have had for his anecdote.

And again thanks for judging me without even knowing my tastes. I despise comic books.

 

[Taunta]

-snip-

I don't care if underage people are playing the game. They shouldn't be, and this game is rated what it's rated for a reason. Bad parenting is a completely different subject. If game companies are pandering to an audience younger than what the game is rated, then that is irresponsible and mind-blowingly stupid advertising, and is insulting to the player base that cares about more than T&A. The "your mother will hate this" garbage was this mind-blowingly stupid, insulting, and irresponsible advertising campaign to a T.

"Unacceptable", "poor taste", is arguing over semantics. I could have said "poor taste" and it would have had exactly the same sentiment. The overall point is I'm hardly the only one disapproving of it. (And nitpicking, just because of probability, I hardly think I'm the first one to call it "unacceptable".)

I did not notice we traveled back to the 1800's. I must inform the local BDSM dungeons and peep-shows that what they are doing is immoral

Quote taken completely out of context, the qualifier is "and then murdered". Moving on.

I'd like to direct you to definition #5. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/murder?s=t]


If I misunderstood your standing on the matter, then I apologize. When you said

I can't find anything on the trailer that is unacceptable except the fact that it shows Hitman in a more action-oriented fight.

I understood it as "I can't find anything wrong with it."

If you're going to accuse me of ad hominems, then writing the article off because of the website it's on, the gender and race of the person who wrote it, and the nature of the anecdote that leads into it, are pretty big ad hominems themselves. All of those are irrelevant to the message of the article, and if you read it, you'd understand more why the author had to make that disclaimer, because if it was a woman writing it, it'd be written off.

Also, the article is not solely about comic books. That just happened to be the example leading into the main point. But you wouldn't know that, cause you just said "Kotaku, white guy, comics, didn't read". Stay classy.