Extragorey said:
In a wierd twist of fate you would be completely wrong...
Set as spoiler cause well it kind of is.
Trailers: Mass Effect 2: Arrival
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Set as spoiler cause well it kind of is.
Yeah I see your point. It's a little too "easy" a twist.poiumty said:
I think the idea behind it (if there is one, it's probably just lazy design) is intriguing though. It kind of emphasizes the danger that we have to use every slightest advantage we get to stop the invasion. It doesn't just focus on the one and only solution, but shows the efforts to stall the invasion in order to make time to find one. I got that feeling at the end of the first game already, when in the end it was still all yeah we killed Saren but the Reapers are coming anyway.
That is not to say, however, that ME2 as a whole was not pretty pointless plot-wise. If the Reapers could've just started going the distance quietly instead of telling us with fanfares and Collectors that they're still there, the whole thing would've been much more surprising.
I can totally see why you'd find that premise uninteresting or even boring, but in my twisted mind the anticlimactic nature of it kind of works, because I was already thinking the Reapers could just take some time and get their asses over here. So now they do, and we're trying to hinder their progress until we find the inevitable Deus Ex Machina/McGuffin device you mentioned.
I dunno I guess I just think it's nice that they actually make the Reapers out as this unstoppable force that will inevitably destroy us no matter what. Only they won't of course. But they still tell it that way. You get the idea.
After playing this, this is my educated guess for the plot of Mass Effect 3. Reapers delayed=War with Batarians. Soon after/during said war, reapers come, attack earth. You have to swing by the citadel wrangle up council fleet. Save earth. Reapers move to citadel. Ultimate final battle with councils anti reaper weapon/strike force, which you lead. You fuck up the reapers Shepard style. Council kisses your/humanity's ass. Then you have repeated intercourse with many alien wimminz, Shepard style.
Hint: I did play it. I wouldn't complain if I hadn't. If I hadn't played the game I wouldn't care at all.CJ1145 said:
I'm not mocking anything, I'm not insulting anyone. What I'm doing is pointing out something I dislike in a game. I was not aware that only positive opinions where allowed.
Why do you make me wear the fanboy pants mummy? I don't want to wear the fanboy pants!
*le sigh*
I made the mistake of scrolling over /v/ before downloading Arrival, and it terrified the hell out of me. I honestly thought Bioware had completely jumped the shark. However, being the lore-addict I am, I still downloaded and played it, and to be honest, I think a lot of the criticism lore-wise is completely unfounded.
Spoilers for all games incoming.
So now we come to invasion plan D. Drop straight in and flotilla the fuck out of everything from one galactic rim to the other. "Hurr, but how did the reapers get out of deep space?" some people who have been blissfuly not paying attention may bleat. "Simple, like your mum." I answer. Mass effect already has a macguffin which gives the middle finger to Einstein's bullshit cramping our alien-shagging style, whilst simultaneously making Sir Isaac Newton the deadliest son of a ***** in space. Element Zero.
In case you came in late, eezo lowers the relative mass within a field when a negative current is applied, and vice versa. The stronger the current, the bigger the shift, and the more eezo, the bigger the field. The lower the mass, the faster the object has the potential to go, relativistically speaking. This is how we travel between planets in hours, and between stars in days. The relays are just there to provide instantaneous travel between 'clusters', given enough fuel, supplies, and time, any ship capable of FTL travel could cross the galaxy under its own power.
"But the protheans said it would take them centuries to do it under their own power." they will add. To which I reply "Fuck the Protheans in their insectile eye-sockets." Have we ever been provided an upper limit as to the speed capable of an eezo-enabled drive? Human ships run on deutrium(H3) fuel cells. Who's to say the Reapers aren't running matter/antimatter anhillation drives, so just turned their shit up to 11 when the collectors humped the bunk? Also, the Protheans might have known more about the reapers than current galactic civilization, but they're not sages of the fucking universe on the subject.
"But why didn't the reapers just do that (plan D) in the first place?" The argumentative will shriek. "Because your face." I wittily retort, my stable of nubile love-slaves clasping at my legs and moaning their admiration. And also, for the same reason people on the east coast of a country don't circumnavigate the globe to get to the other side. It's fucking inefficient. No doubt the reapers want to be in and out and birthing their grotesque spawn fueled by the collective matter of destroyed civilizations without having to fuck about too much with last stands in every goddamn cluster and endless transmissions of "Why are you doing this?" and "Ow my face oh god it burns."
What I will agree on is that endless shooty corridor play was a hell of a lot harder solo. I promise Garrus, I will never make fun of your shitty AI ever again.
Wow... Wall of text huh.
*le sigh*
I made the mistake of scrolling over /v/ before downloading Arrival, and it terrified the hell out of me. I honestly thought Bioware had completely jumped the shark. However, being the lore-addict I am, I still downloaded and played it, and to be honest, I think a lot of the criticism lore-wise is completely unfounded.
Spoilers for all games incoming.
Firstly, the Alpha Relay is not the macguffin everyone seems to think it is. The citadel is not primarily a means of travel from dark space, though it does serve that purpose. Any relay can serve to transport the Reaper fleet around the galaxy. It is, however, the hub of the network, having the power to activate and deactivate the other relays at will, thus killing rapid interstellar travel. That instawin card got taken off the table with the death of their vanguard Sovereign.
Invasion plan A averted. (ME1)
The collectors were seemingly rigging up a secondary vanguard with the terminator baby, which you rudely abort by killing it in the face and blowing up/irradiating the station. Assumedly Shepard's body was to be Saren mk II, hence the Collectors' interest.
Invasion plan B averted.(ME2)
So with the fleet forced now to attack by main force, the only special things about the Alpha Relay is that it is 1) right on the galactic rim, and 2) connects directly to all the other relays, thus enabling the reapers to hit critical points quickly. Why was this developed? Fuck, the keepers are biologicals, maybe they were worried about a stray gamma burst killing them all or something, maybe sovereign was the red-headed stepchild of the Reaper family, maybe they're paranoid, who knows? In any case, Blowing up the alpha relay on the outer rim denys them this quick attack option.
Invasion plan C averted.(Arrival)
Invasion plan A averted. (ME1)
The collectors were seemingly rigging up a secondary vanguard with the terminator baby, which you rudely abort by killing it in the face and blowing up/irradiating the station. Assumedly Shepard's body was to be Saren mk II, hence the Collectors' interest.
Invasion plan B averted.(ME2)
So with the fleet forced now to attack by main force, the only special things about the Alpha Relay is that it is 1) right on the galactic rim, and 2) connects directly to all the other relays, thus enabling the reapers to hit critical points quickly. Why was this developed? Fuck, the keepers are biologicals, maybe they were worried about a stray gamma burst killing them all or something, maybe sovereign was the red-headed stepchild of the Reaper family, maybe they're paranoid, who knows? In any case, Blowing up the alpha relay on the outer rim denys them this quick attack option.
Invasion plan C averted.(Arrival)
So now we come to invasion plan D. Drop straight in and flotilla the fuck out of everything from one galactic rim to the other. "Hurr, but how did the reapers get out of deep space?" some people who have been blissfuly not paying attention may bleat. "Simple, like your mum." I answer. Mass effect already has a macguffin which gives the middle finger to Einstein's bullshit cramping our alien-shagging style, whilst simultaneously making Sir Isaac Newton the deadliest son of a ***** in space. Element Zero.
In case you came in late, eezo lowers the relative mass within a field when a negative current is applied, and vice versa. The stronger the current, the bigger the shift, and the more eezo, the bigger the field. The lower the mass, the faster the object has the potential to go, relativistically speaking. This is how we travel between planets in hours, and between stars in days. The relays are just there to provide instantaneous travel between 'clusters', given enough fuel, supplies, and time, any ship capable of FTL travel could cross the galaxy under its own power.
"But the protheans said it would take them centuries to do it under their own power." they will add. To which I reply "Fuck the Protheans in their insectile eye-sockets." Have we ever been provided an upper limit as to the speed capable of an eezo-enabled drive? Human ships run on deutrium(H3) fuel cells. Who's to say the Reapers aren't running matter/antimatter anhillation drives, so just turned their shit up to 11 when the collectors humped the bunk? Also, the Protheans might have known more about the reapers than current galactic civilization, but they're not sages of the fucking universe on the subject.
"But why didn't the reapers just do that (plan D) in the first place?" The argumentative will shriek. "Because your face." I wittily retort, my stable of nubile love-slaves clasping at my legs and moaning their admiration. And also, for the same reason people on the east coast of a country don't circumnavigate the globe to get to the other side. It's fucking inefficient. No doubt the reapers want to be in and out and birthing their grotesque spawn fueled by the collective matter of destroyed civilizations without having to fuck about too much with last stands in every goddamn cluster and endless transmissions of "Why are you doing this?" and "Ow my face oh god it burns."
What I will agree on is that endless shooty corridor play was a hell of a lot harder solo. I promise Garrus, I will never make fun of your shitty AI ever again.
Wow... Wall of text huh.
If someone already responded to you, then sorry for this post, I haven't read the whole thread; I think the whole thing about the Citadel was that it was the only means for the Reapers to quickly access our galaxy from dark space. When the ability for them to use it was cut off in Mass Effect, the reapers had to physically enter our galaxy by way of non instantaneous travel. (Which we see at the end of Mass Effect 2) Because they don't have the convenience of using the Citadel, they have to instead reach a Mass Relay in order to spread through the Galaxy. Had they been able to use the Citadel, they would have arrived already and presumably killed off everyone.poiumty said:
So it really isn't just a convenient plot portal, it's simple logic: can't take the short cut, so you take the long way.
I don't really understand your point here, Mass Relays exist to connect the galaxy - an easy way of getting from point A to point B, or point F, R, X etc...poiumty said:
I'll put the rest in spoilers for those who haven't played the Arrival DLC.
In the arrival, you're at the far edge of the galaxy; the whole point of the DLC is to hammer out the fact that even though you've stopped the Reapers from invading via the Citadel, they are still determined to reach our Galaxy - it's just taken them a few years. If you can disrupt their ability to use the closest Mass Relay available to them, then it will take them even longer to spread through the galaxy.
Everything thus far has been about disrupting/delaying the Reapers. That's all you can really do when you don't have a solid means by which to destroy the threat presented to you.
To all the people crying "Ruined FOREVER!" about this DLC, may I address one small flaw in your reasoning: you are assuming that the events of ME1 & ME2 provide the full story, or even hint at the full capabilities of the Reapers.
The Reapers are not stupid megalomaniacs. They know exactly what they're doing and why. They make contingency plans. They can get annoyed and they're dismissive of lesser life forms, but they don't lose focus and they are thorough. They've been doing this stuff for a long time while leaving no evidence.* One can safely assume they have a tendency to ensure that, one way or another, they achieve what they set out to achieve.
What they most definitely would NOT do is only have one plan, or leave anything to chance. If you can operate on their time-frame, you have plenty of opportunity to make sure there are no convenient holes in your overall plan which would undermine the end goal. A few delays here and there will make no difference, so long as you succeed in the end. Plan A (ME1) was Plan A because it would be impossible for the opposition to come back from. Plan B (ME2) was Plan B largely because it made a re-run of Plan A possible. Both were more efficient than anything else they could do.
The existence of Plans C onward SHOULD just be met with a response of "Yay, more Mass Effect!"
But, if you still don't like the DLC, then don't play it. Simple. Please just don't waste time whining or trying to start an argument about it.
* = props for anyone who got the Invader Zim reference
The Reapers are not stupid megalomaniacs. They know exactly what they're doing and why. They make contingency plans. They can get annoyed and they're dismissive of lesser life forms, but they don't lose focus and they are thorough. They've been doing this stuff for a long time while leaving no evidence.* One can safely assume they have a tendency to ensure that, one way or another, they achieve what they set out to achieve.
What they most definitely would NOT do is only have one plan, or leave anything to chance. If you can operate on their time-frame, you have plenty of opportunity to make sure there are no convenient holes in your overall plan which would undermine the end goal. A few delays here and there will make no difference, so long as you succeed in the end. Plan A (ME1) was Plan A because it would be impossible for the opposition to come back from. Plan B (ME2) was Plan B largely because it made a re-run of Plan A possible. Both were more efficient than anything else they could do.
The existence of Plans C onward SHOULD just be met with a response of "Yay, more Mass Effect!"
But, if you still don't like the DLC, then don't play it. Simple. Please just don't waste time whining or trying to start an argument about it.
* = props for anyone who got the Invader Zim reference
I never claimed traveling from dark space to a galaxy would be quick, but I was under the assumption the Reapers were ridiculously resourceful and powerful beings; I don't see why they couldn't have some method of travelling faster than say, an Alliance ship could.poiumty said:
I must have missed that part then. The Reapers having access to any Mass Relay seems like a scenario that would end in mass devastation, regardless of whether they could spread through the galaxy instantaneously or through a few relay jumps. Either way, as other people have pointed out, the Alpha Relay was likely in place as a contingency plan in case the Citadel failed.poiumty said:
Your dislike for this all seems to be rooted in the fact you don't like Bioware making things simple or easy, but in reality wouldn't it make sense for the Reapers to have things set up that way?
I feel the same way but it will be. For some reason Bioware have decided to focus Shepard's story on humanity rather than the galaxy as a whole. Shepard even specifically mentions that "humans" will fight the Reapers, he doesn't mention the other races at all (which he did in Mass Effect 1), I don't get why they think we need another cliché "humans save the day" plot, I really don't.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
My Business ... Is Done!Haagrum said:
I agree, just because they said in Mass Effect 1 that they used the Citadel to get into normal space, does not mean that it's the only way, the people in the game who said these things were basing it off of assumptions and what little information they had to go on. It does not mean the Reapers were not capable of doing anything else.
I really cannot fathom how people don't get this is a trilogy, where we don't know everything from the start.
It would render Paragon Shepards pretty non-canonical. Seeing as Paragon=pro-galaxy and Renegade=pro-human. But with the missteps Bioware has been making recently, I wouldn't doubt it.Legion said:
Remember that we were forced to work with Cerberus in Mass Effect 2 (which my Paragade Shepard would never have done given the choice) so it isn't that far fetched really, and they are an anti-alien group.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
I don't see Bioware forcing us to not care about other races, but I believe that the game will be spent recruiting the others to save Earth. This has been hinted at quite strongly so far, and when they accidentally leaked the release of ME3 on the EA site, it mentioned this.
I'd set up a trap for the Reapers and sacrifice Earth. I just feel like we should be given a choice. Save your own planet, but all other races take a huge hit or sacrifice Earth and focus on protecting the galaxy.Legion said:
With any luck, Bioware will remember that they are a company that supposedly make RPG's, and will give us some choices, I cannot fathom the lack of choices (with consequences) that they have been including in their recent games.RedEyesBlackGamer said: