Transgender Day of Rememberance

[isometry]

Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process. Done. If there if a chromosome cross, then they are inter sexed. Other than that, they are still technically men or women.

So you think women with androgen insensitivity syndrome are actually men because they have XY chromosomes? Even though they are assigned female at birth, have vaginas, develop breasts in puberty, etc?

For those who have not heard of this condition, these people have XY chromosomes but their cells do not respond to testosterone. This means that the XY chromosomed fetus does not develop any male features, so they seem to be born as normal females and their condition does not become apparent until they fail to menstruate.

 

[weker]

Seriously, folks - if the remembrance day helps a particular group and their relatives, and doesn't affect you in any way whatsoever, why bother commenting negatively on it?

It's a forum that's why, you post a thread it's there for a discussion and that reason alone.
If you want to make people know about an issue, use a blog site or news channel.
If they want a less "open" view on the topic they should post it on a transsexual promotion site, or at least a place where they don't want any form of discussion about what their doing.

All the people against this day, and against/deny transgender issues

WHAT!!!!! are against/deny transgender issues, your complete taking our comments out of context, this is a remembrance day, we are not dismissive they live constant threat, or in a world of hatred.
Please do not take other peoples comments complete out of context.

 

[CODE-D]

Theyre the male to female ones right?
so I refer to them as men seeing as I dont agree with transexuality and they still have their y chromosome, so technically, logically, biologically, anatomically they are still male.


Also phobia would imply fear or hostility, I have neither.

Well, obviously you have a fear of understanding transsexuality (That's with two S's, if you're trying to instill the idea you know what you're talking about, you may as well spell it correctly)

And a little heads-up, chromosomes can often lie, it's not as cut-and-dry as most seem to think, what about them? What about the women out there with chromosomes that don't match their sex? Are they men too? What about intersexed people?

Also, you claim that they're "logically" and "technically" still male... Well, after sex-reasignment surgery, in most places they are considered female, legally. Not to mention, that to transpeople, we've always logically, and technically been considered our genders (minds, sex is your body) among the relevant communities... So, basically, your views on it are based on a lack of knowledge on the subject, which means you're coming to conclusions on a topic you're not fluent on... or, what one would call prejudice... against transpeople... or... transphobia.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention, there are female brain structures in transwomen, this is caused by a quirk in the hormonal bathes we receive while in the womb. Also, transwoman develop certain male sex characteristics slower than cismen, which further supports it is in fact a biological issue.

Lack of interest ≠ fear
Well I dont major in trans sexuality, not that I want to especially with your tone
hopefully you dont represent all trans people. Im tryin to be polite about my views but you are very quick to write me off prejudice and transphobic so how would you expect to convince people who arent so open to discussion.

Reassignment surgery and what a government paper says they are doesn't really mean anything to me. What you think you are is fine but even with a female like brain you are still a man. Ive never heard of these women with mismatched chromosomes but i assume they are a rarity along with Intersexes but I doubt they are a perfect balance and they have to have more female or male distinguishment over the other and thats the one I see them as.

 

[ZeroHero3D]

Wow. Just wow.

And here i am thinking it's tough to be a Brony, and hide my love for a cartoon for fear of prejeduce. These trans/homosexuals have to deal with so much worse. I feel for them...

Why must we live in a world with so much hate?!?!

 

[Thaluikhain]

You can tell a group needs a day of remembrance when other people come in and say they shouldn't get one.

Personally, I think gender is imposed by society, it doesn't truly exist, which would make the transgender issue (amongst others) totally irrelevant, but I certainly can see the importance of the struggle for equality within society as it stands.

Um not really true on the first part (might be a joke can't tell) for instance people wouldn't want a remembrance day for all the frogs that have died crossing the road.

If someone wanted to have a Dead Frog day, nobody would care. Hell, I bet PeTA has a bunch of those days already, just nobody cares.

If someone wants to have a day for pretending to care about an oppressed minority, it's an outrage.

Nobody is forces to care that today is X Y and Z Day, it's for people that care about the issues...admittedly everyone is sorta supposed to care about oppressed groups like transexuals, but that's beside the point.

I'm just wondering when we'll have Heterosexual Caucasian Male Day, that's all.

That's everyday!

To celebrate, I'm going to drink scotch and fap to a pornographic movie featuring a white hetrosexual couple having sex in the missionary position.

I'm just such a rebel.

But...that's saying that only people suffering inequality can get to complain about how they are suffering from inequality. That's not fair, how is that equal?

...

Seriously, though, yeah, it's a fucking bandaid, it goes to the people who are bleeding.

 

[Mischa87]

Or possibly "Ally".

Critics claim this sort of thing is a bit silly, and you can see why, but any group that gets left out is fucked more fucked less unfucked.

Ah yes, totally forgot about the allies... please don't hurt me allies, you're wonderful people.

And one of the main reasons many transsexuals want to get out of the LGBTOMGWTFBBQ (That was a joke) acronym, is because much of society seems to take the views, and lifestyles of gay men as those of transsexuals (Namely transwomen) You can see this a lot in the media... Gay men are becoming much more prevalent in the media (which is good, as long as they're being realistically portrayed) Whereas transsexuals are not being portrayed well, or often... Which leads to people all over, who just don't understand the issues at hand, and sort mush together gay men, and transwomen (and all transsexuals to a lesser degree)

Also, another reason, like I mentioned earlier, is that LGB are sexual orientations, while the T, standing for transgender, has nothing to do with sexual orientation (In fact, transvestism is a fetish, a lot of people think it shouldn't be in LGBT anyway)

 

[thethird0611]

Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process. Done. If there if a chromosome cross, then they are inter sexed. Other than that, they are still technically men or women.

So you think women with androgen insensitivity syndrome are actually men because they have XY chromosomes? Even though they are assigned female at birth, have vaginas, develop breasts in puberty, etc?

For those who have not heard of this condition, these people have XY chromosomes but their cells do not respond to testosterone. This means that the XY chromosomed fetus does not develop any male features, so they seem to be born as normal females and their condition does not become apparent until they fail to menstruate.

Whew, alot of ignorance up in here. Good job, (even if that isnt a real disorder). Let me paraphrase if there was a misunderstanding.

"Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process." -If you born as a man and develop as a man, you are a man, and vice a versa.

"If there if a chromosome cross, then they are inter sexed. Other than that, they are still technically men or women." - If there is some biological malfunction, there is intersex.

Funny thing is, that AINT TRANSGENDERISM (At least in how TS is being defind here). Whole nother topic.

Wanna try to pick apart things again? I know how people try to 'discuss' and just try to discredit others when they are backed into a wall.

 

[FarleShadow]

But...that's saying that only people suffering inequality can get to complain about how they are suffering from inequality. That's not fair, how is that equal?

Maybe the scotch is getting to me, but I just can't figure out what point you're making.

 

[weker]

If someone wanted to have a Dead Frog day, nobody would care. Hell, I bet PeTA has a bunch of those days already, just nobody cares.

If someone wants to have a day for pretending to care about an oppressed minority, it's an outrage.

Firstly Peta is not the best example, but that's mostly because they are an absolute joke currently.

"it's an outrage."
Well no one here is saying "I DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN!" they just say they don't care for it and see it as pointless.

Also people care about this topic, most the stuff PETA are on about is bull crap half the time, such as the moaning about wanting Turkey, Texas to change it's name.

 

[isometry]

Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process. Done. If there if a chromosome cross, then they are inter sexed. Other than that, they are still technically men or women.

So you think women with androgen insensitivity syndrome are actually men because they have XY chromosomes? Even though they are assigned female at birth, have vaginas, develop breasts in puberty, etc?

For those who have not heard of this condition, these people have XY chromosomes but their cells do not respond to testosterone. This means that the XY chromosomed fetus does not develop any male features, so they seem to be born as normal females and their condition does not become apparent until they fail to menstruate.

Whew, alot of ignorance up in here. Good job, (even if that isnt a real disorder). Let me paraphrase if there was a misunderstanding.

"Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process." -If you born as a man and develop as a man, you are a man, and vice a versa.

I see, you are calling me ignorant and you think AIS doesn't exist even though it is a documented medical condition. Here is a link for you since your education has failed and you don't seem to be able to operate Google search:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

If you prefer peer reviewed references, there are over 100 of them in the reference section of that article. Here is a picture of a group of women who all have XY chromosomes, please educate yourself:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Orchids01.JPG

 

[Thaluikhain]

But...that's saying that only people suffering inequality can get to complain about how they are suffering from inequality. That's not fair, how is that equal?

Maybe the scotch is getting to me, but I just can't figure out what point you're making.

Well, that was sarcasm, but a lot of people seem to have an odd view of equality, where everyone gets the same amount of things intended to balance out inequality.

It's true that if one group needs more balancing than othere there is something unfair going on, but not in the way they mean.

 

[thethird0611]

Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process. Done. If there if a chromosome cross, then they are inter sexed. Other than that, they are still technically men or women.

So you think women with androgen insensitivity syndrome are actually men because they have XY chromosomes? Even though they are assigned female at birth, have vaginas, develop breasts in puberty, etc?

For those who have not heard of this condition, these people have XY chromosomes but their cells do not respond to testosterone. This means that the XY chromosomed fetus does not develop any male features, so they seem to be born as normal females and their condition does not become apparent until they fail to menstruate.

Whew, alot of ignorance up in here. Good job, (even if that isnt a real disorder). Let me paraphrase if there was a misunderstanding.

"Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process." -If you born as a man and develop as a man, you are a man, and vice a versa.

I see, you are calling me ignorant and you think AIS doesn't exist even though it is a documented medical condition. Here is a link for you since your education has failed and you don't seem to be able to operate Google search:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

If you prefer peer reviewed references, there are over 100 of them in the reference section of that article.

Who called it? Who called it?

I think the guy at the pub owes me 100 bucks for that one.

I was putting out there a scenario that didnt matter if you were making it up or it was real.

*clap clap clap* For once again trying to pick apart the words, getting off topic, and trying to discredit someone to seem bigger.

Can you please answer the ideas brought up in my last post if you so care to? Id much rather respond to that.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Wow, really guys? Grow the fuck up already, if you don't care about other people, then don't comment on them, easy as that. Way to step up and show how ignorant you really are, and setting an excellent example of the kind of behaviour that needs to be abolished.

To come into this thread, and spread this kind of hate, you are beyond scum, I could not wish horrible enough of things upon people like you.

Wonder if it's possible to be a bigot on bigotry. Hm...

Anyway. I think it's interesting how there is such a thing as a Gay Panic Defense and Trans Panic Defense. (For anyone who doesn't know, it's when someone on trial for the murder of a homosexual or transgendered person claims that they have Kempf's disease and entered a state of brief reactive psychosis which caused them to murder the gay/trans person. Basically, being gay/transgendered means that there are people who will uncontrollably try to murder you upon learning that you are gay/transgendered. The more you know!)

Edit: Like this.

In July 2009, Ferdinand Ambach, 32, a Hungarian tourist, was convicted of killing Ronald Brown, 69, by hitting him with a banjo and shoving the instrument's neck down Brown's throat. Ambach was initially charged with murder, but the charge was downgraded to manslaughter after Ambach's lawyer successfully invoked the gay panic defense.

That has to be BULLSHIT! I can't believe that, I DON'T accept that! That is fucked up beyond all logical reasoning. I call shenanigans. That is a bullshit defense, plain and simple.

OT: Wow, did not know that.... and those statistics sadden me. I have one thing I keep in mind in my life, let people do want they what in their life as long as it doesn't hurt anyone physically or mentally. Basically live and let live. The amount of intolerance I know of simply staggers me at times.

You don't have to accept it, but it's used and people have (and do) gotten off on it.

Wow. Just wow.

And here i am thinking it's tough to be a Brony, and hide my love for a cartoon for fear of prejeduce. These trans/homosexuals have to deal with so much worse. I feel for them...

Why must we live in a world with so much hate?!?!

Because not enough people watch MLP:FiM.

 

[Loop Stricken]

It's pretty grim really, studies show that one transgendered person is murdered every 3 days worldwide.

Wow, that certainly is grim. Days like this can really make you think.

Yeah man, that's pretty bad. It's not like normal people are murdered with anything NEAR that kind of frequency!
Oh wait.

-----

I've never understood why people feel the need to have National x Days. Obviously if it's in commemoration for an historic event, sure thing, go at it hammer and tongs; but for a specific type of persons? No, that's just daft in my opinion.

 

[weker]

Whew, alot of ignorance up in here. Good job, (even if that isnt a real disorder). Let me paraphrase if there was a misunderstanding.

"Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process." -If you born as a man and develop as a man, you are a man, and vice a versa.

"If there if a chromosome cross, then they are inter sexed. Other than that, they are still technically men or women." - If there is some biological malfunction, there is intersex.

Funny thing is, that AINT TRANSGENDERISM (At least in how TS is being defind here). Whole nother topic.

Wanna try to pick apart things again? I know how people try to 'discuss' and just try to discredit others when they are backed into a wall.

Mate while I have been enjoying your posts (I hope you post more on the forum, you seem fairly well versed) take care with your words, I don't want you getting over heated, as your comments are very insightful, but there seems to be one or two moments where you were bordering on insulting.
I don't mean to censor your words at all, just advising to take care as I don't want another ban/suspension/warning here if i can help it

 

[CODE-D]

Transgender Day of Remembrance? Serious? I'm sure all the veterans would feel super about this.

The veterans already have their own day.

Yeah they do, and they earned it.

Yes because we should remember only those who kill enough people for our government, not those victimized by out society.

Those people died doing/serving a duty to their country and providing for their family and on massive scale and over years.
They also probably experienced horrors beyond social rejection.

 

[thethird0611]

Whew, alot of ignorance up in here. Good job, (even if that isnt a real disorder). Let me paraphrase if there was a misunderstanding.

"Chromosomes are as cut and dry as people think. Your given your chromosomes by a biological process." -If you born as a man and develop as a man, you are a man, and vice a versa.

"If there if a chromosome cross, then they are inter sexed. Other than that, they are still technically men or women." - If there is some biological malfunction, there is intersex.

Funny thing is, that AINT TRANSGENDERISM (At least in how TS is being defind here). Whole nother topic.

Wanna try to pick apart things again? I know how people try to 'discuss' and just try to discredit others when they are backed into a wall.

Mate while I have been enjoying your posts (I hope you post more on the forum, you seem fairly well versed) take care with your words, I don't want you getting over heated, as your comments are very insightful, but there seems to be one or two moments where you were bordering on insulting.
I don't mean to censor your words at all, just advising to take care as I don't want another ban/suspension/warning here if i can help it

Thanks man, yeah, I understand. I should cool down, ignorance just does get to me here and there, and I love a real discussion other than 'who can pick apart the other persons words the most".

I appreciate it.

 

[weker]

Those people died doing/serving a duty to their country and providing for their family.
They also probably experienced horrors beyond social rejection.

To play devils advocate, those people are doing a "duty" which personal I do not value.
"duty" is a strange thing to me, that causes many to assume some form of responsibility to a mass of dirt.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah man, that's pretty bad. It's not like normal people are murdered with anything NEAR that kind of frequency!
Oh wait.

Only because people who aren't transgender vastly outnumber those who are, and who are thus considered "abnormal".

If someone wanted to have a Dead Frog day, nobody would care. Hell, I bet PeTA has a bunch of those days already, just nobody cares.

If someone wants to have a day for pretending to care about an oppressed minority, it's an outrage.

Firstly Peta is not the best example, but that's mostly because they are an absolute joke currently.

"it's an outrage."
Well no one here is saying "I DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN!" they just say they don't care for it and see it as pointless.

Also people care about this topic, most the stuff PETA are on about is bull crap half the time, such as the moaning about wanting Turkey, Texas to change it's name.

Admittedly, yes, there's a step between dismissing something as shouldn't be happening and getting and and demanding it stop, but though attitudes exist in wider society.

A lot of people would claim the transgender movement to be as fucked up as PeTA, though, but would be more likely to attack it than PeTA. I don't know of any murders committed because someone was advocating animal rights, for example.

Transgender Day of Remembrance? Serious? I'm sure all the veterans would feel super about this.

The veterans already have their own day.

Yeah they do, and they earned it.

Yes because we should remember only those who kill enough people for our government, not those victimized by out society.

Those people died doing/serving a duty to their country and providing for their family.
They also probably experienced horrors beyond social rejection.

That's not the point. No-one is saying we should replace days for commemorating wars with ones for murdered transexuals, they are saying as well as big official national days to commemorate fallen soldiers there is room for one day in the year for unofficial rememberance of murdered transexuals for people who want to.

 

[isometry]

I was putting out there a scenario that didnt matter if you were making it up or it was real.

You said AIS is "not a real condition", and I provided references to discredit you. Why would anyone take your biology information seriously after you made such a big error?

*clap clap clap* For once again trying to pick apart the words, getting off topic, and trying to discredit someone to seem bigger.

What are you talking about? You called me ignorant and made false statements, I corrected you with references. I'm not just picking apart your words, I am picking apart the false content of your words.

Can you please answer the ideas brought up in my last post if you so care to? Id much rather respond to that.

Sure, I'll do that as soon as you admit that androgen sensitivity syndrome is a real condition, and that women with AIS have XY chromosomes. As soon as you understand this you'll see why the ideas in your last post are completely wrong.