Transgendered Woman Beat Up In McDonald's; Employees Do Nothing

[CrystalShadow]

I've been dealing with this particular story for over a week now.

First things first; The available evidence, and later additions to the story (including statements by the victim) show that this isn't a trans-related attack.

That's unfortunate, because the trans community has used the attack as some kind of symbolic sign of the abuse they suffer.
But claiming something is transphobic abuse when it isn't undermines the credibility of the group.
(Just as drawing attention to this being a racially motivated attack, which also wasn't the case would make the people insisting it was look rather stupid.)

To be sure, this is a horrible, messed up thing to do to someone whatever the reason, but this person suffered the added humiliation of being outed publicly, and having the very people that are supposed to be on her side abuse her misfortune in a misguided attempt to further their own cause.

That's just not right. And makes a bad situation all the more reprehensible.

This wouldn't be newsworthy without the transphobic angle to the story, (fights like this between women are sadly, more common than you might think. Especially when teenagers are involved, as is the case here.)
So to find out the attack wasn't motivated by that kind of discrimination, but that everyone leapt to that conclusion anyway, just makes us all look like a bunch of paranoid whiners.

 

[Craorach]

The biggest problem with the fast food industry as a whole is that people (customers and upper management) expect perfect service, behavior and work ethic from staff being paid less than many people are willing to get out of bed for. Most of the staff in these places are teenagers, so reasonably expecting them to be entirely understanding of different cultures/sexualities/etc is abit silly.

Further, as many people have mentioned.. the best a fast food team member can expect if they get involved in a customer conflict is to be reprimanded or even fired.. worst scenario, they become a victim or are convicted of assault themselves. Not just the staff, but many managers, are barely out of their teens. Even those of us are older need to primarily concern themselves with protecting themselves and their coworkers, and calling the authorities.

Hell, in the Fast Food store I work in we actually have security on Friday/Saturday nights, and those security guards are not even allowed to get involved directly unless there is a threat to staff.

Now, if staff members activity contributed to this stuff, they should be dismissed. If a staff member records anything at all which takes place within a business and publishes it they should be dismissed immiedately, regardless of what it is. The appropriate response to anyone being assaulted in a business is to protect your staff and call the authorities, providing any first aid or assistance once it is safe to do so.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

that's fucked up, but by law, sitting back and doing nothing is not a crime. beating up on a person? that's a crime. beating up on innocent bystanders? that's a crime. beating up on someone who wants to help the person getting beat up? that's a crime.

watching the beating taking place and doing nothing? not a crime (sad, but true)

It's a good thing I don't take my ethics from what's legal or not then!

Since when did "Sorry, I'm lawful stupid, my alignment won't let me intervene" become a defense, anyway?

well, it's the law, and getting involved could actually have some legal ramifications,

unfortunately it would be impossible to make laws very specifically stating when and where it is okay to get involved in human beatings (and all the other situations where being a good samaritan could be okay)

and yes, the "i'm lawful stupid" is a real defense people have used to get out of any ramifications from not stopping a shooting to not stopping a little girl from getting raped and strangled (true story, the latter that)

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

It's kind of upsetting to me looking at all the people on this site who are defending the staff for not doing anything. But, I guess that's the world we live in now. These days, being an employee of McDonalds is as much as a reason as you need to let someone be degraded and assaulted in public.

The nerve of those people, wanting to keep their only means of making money.

 

[Sudenak]

I always told myself whenever I was in a minimum wage job that I would intervene. I don't care about a minimum wage job, there's fifty others that will hire you if you get knocked out of that one. There's always a crappy place to work where some people are just not desperate enough to apply there yet.

Standing by and doing nothing because that $7 an hour is -so- worth watching another human being nearly -die- is just disgusting. Bunch of greedy capitalists that'd sooner be paid $300 every two weeks than save someone and be a generally -good- person.

It bothers me how many people are defending that sort of action. Just standing there doing nothing. There's laws against doing that in states like Vermont, btw; if you just stand by and do nothing while a crime is committed, you're just as guilty as if you'd been the one beating them up.

I know that it's hard enough for transgenders in this country as it is; hell, it's hard enough for gays and lesbians, but transgenders are treated as inhuman in most parts of the country. I've often considered the surgery myself, but it's the fear of being disowned and having my life ruined that holds me back. Which is just disgusting.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

that's fucked up, but by law, sitting back and doing nothing is not a crime.

Incorrect. It is indeed a crime, especially when things get serious. We all have a duty of care - a legal one.

Correct. But I don't think that there is a duty of care for a employee in this case.

The plaintiff must be able to show a duty of care imposed by law which the defendant (or defender) has breached

 

[OtherSideofSky]

You know how the LGBT community has cut itself off from any kind of religion? Do you think everyone who falls in that spectrum wants to cut themselves off from their religion?

Think about it.

In my experience of knowing a lot of LGBT people who have done this, it usually has something to do with forgetting that non-abrahamic religions exist. I'm not saying they all have to go and follow the Dao or whatever, and I've seen first hand how hard it can be on people to separate from the religion they were born into and that their family practices, but it also kind of pisses me off when people forget that not all religions are like that. This usually leads to the even worse people who act like refuting Christianity is the same as refuting religion. Before anyone responds to tell me about how much I don't understand them, let me just say that I can still be pissed off at trends I observe within a group even if that group is a persecuted minority because their status as such does not justify doing stupid things. Additionally, I am hardly without firsthand experience when it comes to suffering in silence and getting beaten up every day for something beyond my control (mental conditions are actually worse for this because your fellow sufferers aren't usually in a position to offer help or community).

Also, a lot of people here are really down on the employees, but psychology suggests most of you wouldn't have done any different, no matter what you say now. Additionally, a lot of people working those jobs need that little bit of money a lot more than people here seem to think. For some of them it probably wasn't a choice of 'a bit of spending money vs. a human life' so much as 'the continued wellbeing of myself and/or my family vs. a person I don't know'. Additionally, while the manager's comment was incredibly insensitive, it could have been an honest mistake. Transgendered people don't project a magical aura identifying themselves as such and transvestites do exist. He could just as easily have been a virulent bigot, but my point is that we have no way of knowing at the moment. I think much more thorough information would be necessary to draw a definite conclusion on that score.

 

[Serenegoose]

that's fucked up, but by law, sitting back and doing nothing is not a crime. beating up on a person? that's a crime. beating up on innocent bystanders? that's a crime. beating up on someone who wants to help the person getting beat up? that's a crime.

watching the beating taking place and doing nothing? not a crime (sad, but true)

It's a good thing I don't take my ethics from what's legal or not then!

Since when did "Sorry, I'm lawful stupid, my alignment won't let me intervene" become a defense, anyway?

well, it's the law, and getting involved could actually have some legal ramifications,

unfortunately it would be impossible to make laws very specifically stating when and where it is okay to get involved in human beatings (and all the other situations where being a good samaritan could be okay)

and yes, the "i'm lawful stupid" is a real defense people have used to get out of any ramifications from not stopping a shooting to not stopping a little girl from getting raped and strangled (true story, the latter that)

Don't you think that sort of makes the world a worse place? That we OK that activity in law? Don't you think that setting the system up so that it punishes you for intervening when someone is being destroyed is a flawed, inhuman system, and that any system that deals with humans being inhuman is inherently bad? The lawful stupid argument holds no ethical weight. It is a poor excuse, and can never be any more. We should stop pretending otherwise.

 

[Kerra]

It's kind of upsetting to me looking at all the people on this site who are defending the staff for not doing anything. But, I guess that's the world we live in now. These days, being an employee of McDonalds is as much as a reason as you need to let someone be degraded and assaulted in public.

The nerve of those people, wanting to keep their only means of making money. Losing your livelihood is so worth it.

Its nice to know that a few weeks of possible hardship until you get another shitty fast food job wouldn't be worth standing in to defend another human being who may be seriously injured or killed

 

[Azaraxzealot]

that's fucked up, but by law, sitting back and doing nothing is not a crime.

Incorrect. It is indeed a crime, especially when things get serious. We all have a duty of care - a legal one.

where in the world does it say (in any constitution) that if someone is getting attacked i need to help them?

if it's not in the constitution or a law is not constitutional, then i don't have to follow it.

besides, i'm not defending these people who did nothing. no, i WISH they could be lawfully punished VERY severely

but unfortunately, by law, they were exercising a constitutional right. the right to not be involved. to do nothing.

like it's a right to sit back and do nothing when millions of people are dying in genocides all over the world, it's also a right to watch a beating and do nothing. though, the fact that they were doing nothing because it was a transgendered woman is going to bring "hate crimes" into this and the situation will get sticky beyond anything i can deal with

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

It's kind of upsetting to me looking at all the people on this site who are defending the staff for not doing anything. But, I guess that's the world we live in now. These days, being an employee of McDonalds is as much as a reason as you need to let someone be degraded and assaulted in public.

The nerve of those people, wanting to keep their only means of making money. Losing your livelihood is so worth it.

Its nice to know that a few weeks of possible hardship until you get another shitty fast food job wouldn't be worth standing in to defend another human being who may be seriously injured or killed had you been employed there

Not everything is as black & white as you make it out to be; some people simply can't afford to lose even a job like that, if only for a few weeks.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

My two cents are being thrown in.

First off, the two people beating the woman (and she is a woman, no matter what she was born as) are horrible people, no matter the justification. Even if they only beat her for supposedly hitting on a boyfriend, that would be something you'd maybe expect in a bar after a few drinks, not a fucking McDonald's.

Secondly, I am glad that the employee laughing and recording the incident on his cell phone got fired. Seriously, he is little better than those giving the beating.

Thirdly, the comment made by the manager is jaw-droppingly ignorant, and he needs to suffer some form of repercussion from his superiors, although any legal punishment isn't really warranted, in my opinion.

Fourthly, good on Vicki for doing what no other employees or customers were doing and helping out a woman who was obviously being beaten.

Fifthly, I don't blame the employees who were uneasy about stepping in and worried about your jobs. You can stand there and say "I would risk my job because I am a human" and "If I lost my job, at least I'd look good because of it". Well, here's the thing. Looking like a hero doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't pay student loans. You don't get put through college on heroism.

Finally, I'm glad to see the women on here who are open about being transsexuals. I applaud you, and wish you the best in avoiding stupid prejudice by the ignorant.

 

[Craorach]

Its nice to know that a few weeks of possible hardship until you get another shitty fast food job wouldn't be worth standing in to defend another human being who may be seriously injured or killed

I can see you've never had to depend upon fast food for your income.

Get fired from a job and it becomes increasingly hard to get a similar job. Fast food companies opperate with very strict, and similar, procedures and policies. One of the biggest red flags when you try to get a job in this industry is being fired from another one.

 

[Kerra]

that's fucked up, but by law, sitting back and doing nothing is not a crime.

Incorrect. It is indeed a crime, especially when things get serious. We all have a duty of care - a legal one.

where in the world does it say (in any constitution) that if someone is getting attacked i need to help them?

if it's not in the constitution or a law is not constitutional, then i don't have to follow it.

besides, i'm not defending these people who did nothing. no, i WISH they could be lawfully punished VERY severely

but unfortunately, by law, they were exercising a constitutional right. the right to not be involved. to do nothing.

like it's a right to sit back and do nothing when millions of people are dying in genocides all over the world, it's also a right to watch a beating and do nothing. though, the fact that they were doing nothing because it was a transgendered woman is going to bring "hate crimes" into this and the situation will get sticky beyond anything i can deal with

Its more about ethical and moral responsibility than constitutional rights or laws

 

[Azaraxzealot]

that's fucked up, but by law, sitting back and doing nothing is not a crime. beating up on a person? that's a crime. beating up on innocent bystanders? that's a crime. beating up on someone who wants to help the person getting beat up? that's a crime.

watching the beating taking place and doing nothing? not a crime (sad, but true)

It's a good thing I don't take my ethics from what's legal or not then!

Since when did "Sorry, I'm lawful stupid, my alignment won't let me intervene" become a defense, anyway?

well, it's the law, and getting involved could actually have some legal ramifications,

unfortunately it would be impossible to make laws very specifically stating when and where it is okay to get involved in human beatings (and all the other situations where being a good samaritan could be okay)

and yes, the "i'm lawful stupid" is a real defense people have used to get out of any ramifications from not stopping a shooting to not stopping a little girl from getting raped and strangled (true story, the latter that)

Don't you think that sort of makes the world a worse place? That we OK that activity in law? Don't you think that setting the system up so that it punishes you for intervening when someone is being destroyed is a flawed, inhuman system, and that any system that deals with humans being inhuman is inherently bad? The lawful stupid argument holds no ethical weight. It is a poor excuse, and can never be any more. We should stop pretending otherwise.

i hope you don't think i'm advocating that it's a good thing that we punish those who involve themselves. i'm sure we'd all like a batman or daredevil to clean up those who are technically doing "legal" things but are just sickening to us, but like how it is in school, so it is in life

you get involved? you share the consequences.

i hate it. and i REALLY wish this wasn't the way life was, but what can we do about it?
they've tried instituting "good samaritan" laws before and all it ends up being is a bunch of assholes who abuse the law or don't follow it because it's "not written clearly enough"

the world is a fucked up place. people are fucked up things.

 

[hyrulegaybar]

There's a psychological theory at play here. It's called "Diffusion of Responsibility".

I'd look it up and give an exact definition, but I'm sweepy...

Yep, that's the one. Also called the 'bystander effect'.

I'm not sure if that's the case here though. It seems like the employees really didn't care, or were rooting for the attackers.

Hard to tell without more facts.

*Edit* To see the bystander effect in gruesome action, take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese#Psychological_research_prompted_by_the_murder

38 witnesses, several attacks over a half an hour, 0 calls to the police, 1 dead body.

Want to know something funny about this crime? They never talk about it, but Kitty Genovese was a lesbian. I'm not making any point other than pointing out the parallel between that crime and this. I'm not saying that gays and lesbians are being killed and people are looking on heartlessly. But to me, it is a very interesting thing to note.

 

[Kortney]

snip

Ehhhhh. Shoosh.

If you were to walk down the street tomorrow night and see a man being beaten to death and lying in the street - yet you keep on walking, you would be charged with serious offenses due to failure to act and negligence. Sorry. Same deal if this girl was seriously hurt. But she wasn't, so yeah, you wouldn't be charged in this particular incident - but your view of "I don't have to do anything" is completely wrong.

But yes, your faultless logic of "If it ain't in the constitution, I ain't have ta follow it!" is awesome. Keep trying to defend it, doesn't matter what you say, it's still illegal to not uphold your duty of care.

 

[Kerra]

Its nice to know that a few weeks of possible hardship until you get another shitty fast food job wouldn't be worth standing in to defend another human being who may be seriously injured or killed

I can see you've never had to depend upon fast food for your income.

Get fired from a job and it becomes increasingly hard to get a similar job. Fast food companies opperate with very strict, and similar, procedures and policies. One of the biggest red flags when you try to get a job in this industry is being fired from another one.

Actually yes I have had to, I was fired from that job for talking back to a customer who called me a freak. Im well aware or the rules and regulations

 

[Kortney]

It's kind of upsetting to me looking at all the people on this site who are defending the staff for not doing anything. But, I guess that's the world we live in now. These days, being an employee of McDonalds is as much as a reason as you need to let someone be degraded and assaulted in public.

The nerve of those people, wanting to keep their only means of making money.

Yes, because calling the police and/or trying to stop the fight would have automatically resulted in them being fired?

You really believe this? You think this is company policy? Really?

I can't believe the amount of people who have fallen for that awful excuse.