Transhumanism and you

[Daaaah Whoosh]

Meh, I'm prepared to exchange just about everything for robot parts, except my brain. I already believe that he who is me will be dead by the time I finish this message, replaced by another me that will be dead an instant later, and so on, but I still don't want to test this belief by jumping ship onto a hard drive.

 

[waj9876]

I am all for this. Whether by digital, mechanical, or even biological means, I am always interested in becoming immortal. (I'm not going to be the very first volunteer for digital immortality, that one carries the most risk. It has to be really, REALLY, REALLY fucking secure before I'll try it.)

 

[Anatoli Ossai]

SNIP

But it is the same, presuming the technology is sufficient, it physically will be the exact same person. If the program that simulates your brain is made correctly it will be the exact same person as you. Not a clone, not a copy, you. The same person whose body died. Like I said, as long as you bridge the gap, so that your memory/thoughts maintain the narrative you will be the same person.

Of course it's not.

No matter how good a copy is, it's still a copy.

You can't transfer your consciousness, all you could do is replicate it.

Well not yet. The biggest problem isn't transferring your consciousness, since that's really just dependent to the configuration of your brain but replacing your brain tissue with more durable stuff.

 

[Anatoli Ossai]

What is even the point of uploading your brain to a computer?

The point? I don't understand...
Scientists do what they do for one thing...
FOR SCIENCE!
Doesn't matter if it's bad or good, all must be done in the name of SCIENCE!
...
(please note I'm not a scientist)
Seriously though, I like the idea of being able to transfer human thought into a computer run body (That specifically, as I think that's what the OP was really trying to get at rather than the entirety of transhumanism, which as others have mentioned is far more than that). Whether it turns out to be a good or bad idea I can't really say, I'm just immensely interested in the implications of such a move. Will our future be more utopian, or dystopian? Who can tell, but either way I bet it would be interesting to watch. I just hope I'll be alive to see it, but then I am only young.

Like Ian malcom said in Jurrasic park - just because you can doesn't mean you should. Still I am all for it even it's just for the philosophical conundrums involved.

 

[The Lunatic]

To be honest.

It sounds fucking awesome.

Let's do that, seriously guys.

We could have like, laser eyes, super strength.

Jetpacks! We could finally get jetpacks.

 

[Saltyk]

I don't know. I'm not really afraid of death, so the idea of immortality isn't something that I personally see as something that appealing to me. That may change in ten years, but at this moment, I have no fear of imminent death.

But, as others have said, I use this kind of thing all the time. I have glasses/contacts, a car, phone, and several other things.

The idea of transferring my soul/mind/consciousness into a machine or computer, isn't really something I have any strong opinion on one way of the other. So, cue the neutral response.

Let's see what things come about in time.
[sub]I would take those cool robotic shades like Adam Jensen, though.[/sub]

What is even the point of uploading your brain to a computer?

No more pooping.

You can also choose any spartan you want

Yeah, but all the good ones get taken first. You'll probably get stuck with some loser.

 

[Anatoli Ossai]

Will transhumanism give people the ability to use basic punctuation in their posts? If so i'm all up for it.

Transhumanism is more than being technologically able to upload consciousness into machines. In its entirety, it's all about enhancing our human abilities with the aid of technology to the point that we're "no longer" human- and hence transhuman. This is why i have problems with transhumanism itself- how do you define exactly when you're no longer human because of technology? There's also something rather narcissistic about the whole idea- there's an implication that transhumans are "better" or have more worth than ordinary humans and strikes me as being rather arrogant.

The philosophical argument here is what defines a human? How many body parts can you hack off before your definition changes? Is a feotus a human? or a brain dead man? Or a deformed baby? If humanity is defined by resembling a human Then humanity is simply the "ability" to be a human.

Lets take that another step. If deficiency doesn't make me less human then what about add ons? If i start off with a human core and upload into a cybernetic conciousness or change my base genetics to an ethereal form do I lose my humanity status? why? It reminds me of the Theseus paradox

I do not think arrogance is humanities problem. It's loneliness and boredom. The morbid idea that we might be alone in this vast and cold, indifferent universe. That our time will come and go and no one (if aliens exist) will even know we were here. The old gods we created (whom are simply personifications of mans fears and aspirations) are dead (I apologize if you're religious, I speak existentially); the next thing its to take our fates into our own hands and control our mortality and maybe even create life of our own.

 

[FancyNick]

In transferring your mind to a robotic body, wouldn't it be more of a copy of your mind sort of thing. It could recreate you sure but it would not be "you." It would be "you 2.0" the real you would still die. Consciousness, as far as we know, can't really be transferred in anyway. Your mind with your body would fade while a copy of you would live on in a similar manner to you... or not, whatever he/she felt like. Unless we make huge leaps in what we know of the human brain and even then the science would need to allow us to do this in the first place, I don't see this happening in 2040. The brain is just too complex and we know too little. Needless to say, our robotics aren't really up to snuff for this stuff either. But who knows, a lot can happen in 27 years.


Still If we can get this working than sign me up. I always wanted to be a robot. You'd have to watch out for hackers/government guys messing with your head though. An EMP would be like a mass murder tool and superhuman crime would be rampant. Needless to say the anti roboguy crowd that will most likely exist would make peoples lives a living hell.. Being a robot seems like a lot of work now.

 

[Angelous Wang]

The problem with Transhumanism is in order to achieve it, it first requires us to do something very problematic; 100% understand the the Human brain.

And in order to ever understand the Human brain it is going to take allot (hundreds of millions) very experimental and illegal medical procedures and tests (I'm talking dissecting a guys brain whilst he is alive).

We would need to understand what every piece of brain tissue controls, what every single electrical impulse does, where every single electrical impulse starts and ends, and so on.

Not to mention you can only run a single test on any individual because even if they survive a test, the brain never functions the exact same way a normal one does after it has been damaged (re-routing electrical impulse's). Which would be another thing than needs experimenting, testing and understanding.

... So unless an evil dictator decides to go scientific-mass-murderer on his own people I don't see us getting close any-time soon.

 

[The Lunatic]

In transferring your mind to a robotic body, wouldn't it be more of a copy of your mind sort of thing. It could recreate you sure but it would not be "you." It would be "you 2.0" the real you would still die. Consciousness, as far as we know, can't really be transferred in anyway. Your mind with your body would fade while a copy of you would live on in a similar manner to you... or not, whatever he/she felt like. Unless we make huge leaps in what we know of the human brain and even then the science would need to allow us to do this in the first place, I don't see this happening in 2040. The brain is just too complex and we know too little. Needless to say, our robotics aren't really up to snuff for this stuff either. But who knows, a lot can happen in 27 years.

The concept of conciousness has always interested me.

I kinda ended up pinning onto one point.


When you awake, how do you know the conciousness you're feeling is the same one as yesterday?


I mean, for all we know, the conciousness we feel could only last for one day, when we sleep, it ceases to exist and anything we remember feeling didn't actually happen to this conciousness, but, are just memories creative by a previous one.

Kinda curious to see if science ever gets much understanding of it, honestly.

 

[Reeve]

SNIP

But it is the same, presuming the technology is sufficient, it physically will be the exact same person. If the program that simulates your brain is made correctly it will be the exact same person as you. Not a clone, not a copy, you. The same person whose body died. Like I said, as long as you bridge the gap, so that your memory/thoughts maintain the narrative you will be the same person.

Of course it's not.

No matter how good a copy is, it's still a copy.

You can't transfer your consciousness, all you could do is replicate it.

I disagree. Do you realise that every particle that makes up your body right now is different from the particles it was a few years ago. Maybe even a few months ago. And yet you are still...you. If the entire composition of your body can be changed over time and yet you still survive then why should it be any different when it's digital or silicon?

The key thing is the structure. When all the particles are replaced in your body the thing that is preserved is structurally & functionally the same as before. A digital version of your mind just has to be structurally and functionally identical and so long as that criteria is met: It's you.

 

[Chaosian]

I did a 20 minute presentation in Grade 12 about Transhumanism, and a paper in University on it so I know a little of the ins and outs of the concept. People seem to be forgetting here that Transhumanism is not a new concept, in fact, it's a concept about as old as it gets. As Transhumanism is simply the enhancing of the human condition through means of technology, one trip down to Wikipedia will remind you that Transhumanist themes are present even in Gilgamesh and his journey for the Fountain of Youth.

As for what's cool about it, I can't wait to see a super-intelligence and the Singularity. Like one of those Daleks that can't wait to be exterminated by the better model, I can't wait to see AI life start evolving into a flawless neo-humaity with perfect order and harmony, and absolute reason and rationality.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I've read Neuromancer enough times to know I never ever would want to have my mind downloaded into a computer. Ever. Not appealing in the slightest to me. If you haven't read it yet, please do. William Gibson is the digital era's prophet, whether intentionally or not...

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

By 2040? Try within the next ten years.

Seriously I dont believe you. Medical testing is stringent. It takes years to even get a product moved from animal to human testing depending on the product. Moving a conciousness is something no one in their right mind (badum tish) would do without extreme amounts of testing to make sure it doesnt murder someone. It reminds me of the back to the future esque "FLYING CARS BY 2010!" thing. People always have unrealistic hopes for the future.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/biotechnology/first-bionic-eye-sees-light-130206.htm

We have one extremely expensive in development bionic eye at the moment, with VERY mixed results from a VERY small sample size. The fact the technology is inconsistent is also worrying. Does each individual need a tailor made eye? Why does it work for some and not others? Its not as easy as it seems. 30 people is almost so small a sample as to be laughable also. Until this is tested on thousands of people its almost a negligible test.

Dont get me wrong I'd LOVE to see this work. I think by 2040 we might have properly functioning eyes and arms for bionic implant. I dont think we will be able to move a consciousness properly. Mapping motor neurons and mapping memory and personality sections of the brain are different areas of study.

 

[furai47]

What you're describing is Technological singularity, Transhumanism deals with enhancing the capabilities of the human...everything really. Unless you're on Tumblr.

I'm all for it, it's the next step. People complaining about morality and god are but a bunch of pretentious old men, running the world. But the world left them behind long ago.

 

[bfgmetalhead]

As a long time Transhumanist, I support this tread and the attempt to educate people about Transhumanism. Whenever I try and tell people about it they think I am crazy, most people can't or won't accept the fact that human technological advancement is becoming extremely rapid. The Law of Accelerating Returns explains this, as our research develops new methods of computing and research the rate at which these developed will also increase leading to a spiral of technological discovery and eventually causing the Singularity.

As a sociologist, it's my job to prepare society for the future. Education is needed as quite a few people seem to think that all transhumanists just want to force everyone to be a robot or something. When I actually get someone to listen to what I have to say I tell them that we humans are tool based creatures, when you hammer a nail you wouldn't describe that action like "I am going to use this hammer to knock this nail in" you would say "I am going to hammer this nail". Our tools become an extension of our selves and to incorporate our tools into our bodies is the next logical step, evolution over the next millennium will not be directed by selection or nature but by mankind and our technology.

 

[afroebob]

You don't want to use technology to increase the ability of the human body? OK, fine, just give me all your glasses, your canes, your wheelchairs, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Gorden Springel]

Will transhumanism give people the ability to use basic punctuation in their posts? If so i'm all up for it.

Transhumanism is more than being technologically able to upload consciousness into machines. In its entirety, it's all about enhancing our human abilities with the aid of technology to the point that we're "no longer" human- and hence transhuman. This is why i have problems with transhumanism itself- how do you define exactly when you're no longer human because of technology? There's also something rather narcissistic about the whole idea- there's an implication that transhumans are "better" or have more worth than ordinary humans and strikes me as being rather arrogant.

If it didn't make you better than a normal human what would be the point?

 

[OneCatch]

Transhumanism is all about enhancing humanity's abilities beyond what is natural, it doesn't necessarily have to involve future technology. Given that life expectancy has doubled from what it was 50 years ago & we can communicate with anyone anywhere in the world using a smartphone, it's very easy to say we are already transhuman by ancient standards.

Not entirely sure about this. Ultimately things like medical care, corrective surgery and improved diet don't really constitute transhumanism in my view, because they don't really bring about a change in our basic physiology and more importantly, thought processes.
To take an example, the common fox lives for about 4-5 years, whereas in captivity they can live to 14. Would we call such foxes trans-vulpene? I wouldn't, because it's still a fox - indistinguishable in intelligence, instinct or physiology.
Whereas most transhumans in sci-fi I've read have entirely alien abilities and outlooks; in 2001 we get the starchild, in Childhood's End they become positively inhuman, in Ilium they ascend because they get bored of reality, in Night's Dawn they become a kind of hive mind and benefit from the perspective that offers.
Since this is a gaming website; Prophet in Crysis could be said to be transhuman because he's almost entirely beyond human emotion, predicts future events and seamlessly melds with computers by the time of Crysis 3.
Masterchief isn't though, because he's basically a fast human in a suit.

To take your example, we'd appear pretty godly to an ancient greek, but we have essentially the same physical abilities, and ultimately think in a very similar way. Yes, we can communicate all over the world in an instant, but the messages we send, whether bitching about work, flirting, making jokes, whatever; if appropriately translated, would make just as much sense to Mr Hypaspist as to us.
As a sidenote, I saw an Exhibition on Pompei the other day, and it's striking just how much we haven't changed in spite of literally a quarter of recorded history having passed since then. There are probably more significant cultural differences between me and a Saudi guy who's was born the same year as me, than with a guy who died 2000 years ago.

I do agree the main thrust of your post though - that transhumanism is somewhat amorphous, depends on perspective, and is difficult to do. I'm not sure where I'd explicitly draw the line. I guess that could be why they call it transhumanism though!

 

[Khannea Suntzu]

I am Khannea Suntzu and a longtime Transhumanism. Ask me anything.