Trope-a-Dope

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I must say that's one helluva zinger. I do really wish people all over would stop acting like the cool, aloof, world-weary Aragorn-esque character and realize they're a bunch twenty-somethings working odd jobs while they procrastinate through higher education. Though I'm still not interested in Avatar, mostly because I wonder if Cameron is trying to feel less guilty than being a billionaire in these unsure times.

 

[Sylocat]

That... is... brilliant. Seriously, this was an amazing column. I think I'll link this on a few of those Avatar-bashing threads on the web.

 

[lokidr]

It was completely unoriginal in narrative. The visuals were stunning. The world details in the other materials [http://www.pandorapedia.com/doku.php] were fascinating but largely not included in the movie. The cultures were not original, they weren't supposed to be, it would have ruined allegory and message.

So, it's great eye candy with a wealth of details implied but not examined in the movie. I liked the movie but I prefer more originality in narrative so I didn't think it should be lauded as great movie. But that's why it's art, people can disagree.

Indeed, our differences in opinion are what make for interesting conversation.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the it may not be original as a whole the shear amount of depth was stunning enough to make me like the movie.

I may just be biased though. I'm part native american and just love a good FUCK YOU WHITE MAN type movie XD

Where you see depth, I see plot holes. You like Avatar for other reasons but what does that really say about the movie as a whole? The line between "classic" and "cliche" is how often I've seen it and how much I still like it. Bob panned Book of Eli as unoriginal but I liked it but I just like post-apocalypse movies. That doesn't mean Bob was wrong.

 

[thebackupfreak]

Excellent collumn! Gave me loads to think about, and far less to be paralysingly miserable about. Thanks!

 

[copycatalyst]

As I've come to expect with regard to discussing audiences, Bob, you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Knoxy]

A teensy bit preachy in the end there, but still an awesome article definitely laying down some "needed-to-be-said" stuff. Nice One!

 

[TheGreatCoolEnergy]

Excellent article. I love Tv Tropes by the way, although your article was correct. But I would like to cite you (and everyone who uses tropes to bash stuff) this perticular trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale

To summarize it quickly, it is litteraly impossible to write a story without a trope. The real trick is to take old tropes and make them new/exciting/moving again. Avatar did have an amazing fictional world, and I appluade them for that. But the plot not only failed at being interesting, it didn't even try. It was exactly like Pocahauntus/Dances with Wolves, which sucks because the world they created was so much better than a quick "Stop fucking the enviroment" lecture.

 

[lokidr]

Bob, can we talk?

As a critic, I see a lot of movies - often multiple films in a day, multiple days a week. And that's just at theaters; I see even more at home. In fact, on average I'd say I see at least one new-to-me movie every other day, and that's probably lowballing it. Most people, I'm well aware, don't consume movies this way. The majority of the public maybe sees a new movie each week, and maybe a handful at theaters.

Are you upset at others who put in less "work" than you do the same things you do or that they get it wrong? Seeing the 50,000th person to make a "dances with smurfs" joke does get old but that doesn't make the narrative original.

Is it really more satisfying to ignore/dismiss all of that innovation in order to roll your eyes about "The Hot Amazon" or Quaritch being a "General Ripper"?

And y'know what? Even if the answer is "yes," that still doesn't excuse being a douchebag about it - there's no greater abuse of nerdity than treating someone like crap because they've spent slightly less time cataloguing backstory minutia from Dragonball than you have. I'm aware that this is perpetrated mostly by "my people" . . . .

You know, Bob, you have panned your far share of movies for being unoriginal. Is this about movie watchers or Movie Bob watchers?

Every person who intends to reference TV Tropes should be required to link three pages first:
Tropes Are Tools [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad]
TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]
Just Relax [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra]

 

[John Funk]

Dammit Bob.

I have WORK to do today. But now I'm browsing TV Tropes. Thanks a lot.

 

[Falseprophet]

I must say, I really like this article.

To be honest, I've never really understood what's so addictive about TV Tropes that some people would regularly keep 300+ tabs open [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.155308-What-Do-you-expect-from-us#3786883] just for that site. Sure it can be informative when looking into fiction across all forms of media, but it's just something I've never thought of being that interesting, or something that I would want to read addictively.

Well some of us are obsessive geeks fascinated by how many things in the world are connected to each other [http://xkcd.com/214/], and extend it to our entertainment as well. If you're not, or prefer to look into these things another way, that's cool too. To each his own.

My life has been ruined by TV Tropes as well, but I wonder at how many tropers forget Tropes are Not Bad [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad]. All houses are built with hammers and nails, but some are well-built but plain, some are beautiful masterpieces, and some are just disasters.

As for Avatar: Yes, the story was pedestrian. Yes, the visuals were stunning. Yes, the acting seemed flat at times. But it was the details that did win me over despite the hackneyed plot, most notably how the Na'vi could directly interface with the other lifeforms on their planet. (But surprisingly, not with each other during sex [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MissedMomentOfAwesome].) Hometree wasn't just a big plant, it was the repository of their culture. The humans didn't just burn down some trees, they destroyed the Na'vi equivalent to the Library of Alexandria, and as a librarian and student of history, that resonated with me.

 

[The Philistine]

Avatar catches alot of flak because it's 1) really frelling popular and 2) hyped to hell and back. Being popular it gets talked about alot. Being (over)hyped it's going to have a bunch of folks who are disappointed or unimpressed by the level of frothing fandom the movie has generated.

It's a stunning visual experience. It has a smooth if not original or intricate narrative. The acting was stellar for a sci-fi/eco flick, but certainly not the best out there. Avatar is a box office behemoth and no amount of internet psuedo-critics are going to change that.

 

[qbanknight]

love the quote at the end, and it's so damn true

 

[ZeroMachine]

*sticks his head in after months of absence*

That was beautiful, Bob... just beautiful. I've been trying to tell people this for YEARS. It's a real shame when they don't get it, especially when it comes to stuff like Avatar. Luckily, though, the only people that look at it that way are the pompous asshats who refuse to look at the WHOLE picture instead of just the overall.

*returns to the wilds of the internet*

 

[Lord Thodin]

This was amazingly, and magnificently written. But very depressing.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Great article Bob.

This is what I am always telling my friends. You do not need to be original to tell a good story.

Avatar is just the modern example of this, its been happening for years.

 

[the1ultimate]

That's a nice story. Maybe <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanityOnTrial>not entirely original, but I still loved it.

I tend to think that the reason why people are picking on Avatar isn't necessarily because of the unoriginal story, but perhaps because they can't put their finger on some of the deeper issues bothering them about the film, like some of the strange disparities between the apparent amount of thought put into different parts of the film.
For instance, since Cameron had crafted the world in such detail, why didn't he really make the characters (including the bad guys) his own?

Of course it's like you say, <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreNotBad>tropes aren't bad, it all depends on what you make of them.

 

[Altorin]

That's a nice story. Maybe <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanityOnTrial>not entirely original, but I still loved it.

that's what you call a Meta-Joke.

 

[the1ultimate]

That's a nice story. Maybe <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanityOnTrial>not entirely original, but I still loved it.

that's what you call a Meta-Joke.

I wouldn't say so, considering the tone the end of the story seemed to have to me.

I'd call it irony.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Interesting article and far too true. One of the reasons I stopped paying attention to internet celebrity The Nostalgia Critic was because of his 'Chester A. Bum' review of District 9 (best movie I saw last year) where he said the film sucks because 'aliens on earth', 'robot powersuits', 'corrupt corporations', 'guys mutating into aliens', 'faux-documentary style' and 'exploding bodies' had been done in other films before and therefore District 9 had NOTHING original about it. This was the point where I just said "mate, you don't know SHIT" and decided never to take his word for anything ever again.

I love TV Tropes and it doesn't surprise me that Bob is aware of it (and probably a regular contributor) himself.

 

[Altorin]

That's a nice story. Maybe <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanityOnTrial>not entirely original, but I still loved it.

that's what you call a Meta-Joke.

I wouldn't say so, considering the tone the end of the story seemed to have to me.

I'd call it irony.

Ok, that's what I call a Meta-Joke