Trope-a-Dope

TJF588

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Jan 29, 2009
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Zombie_Fish said:
To be honest, I've never really understood what's so addictive about TV Tropes that some people would regularly keep 300+ tabs open [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.155308-What-Do-you-expect-from-us#3786883] just for that site. ...
As informative and enlightening it may be, becoming that skilled in reading between the lines and ignoring the small details that make the scenes different from one another to tear apart the cliches is something I don't want to do.
1) It's because of all the links in the midst of an article that you right-click and open the tab in the background, then go on reading the page you're on, then continue with the next. It's like a Hydra of interest-relevance.
2) Usually it's all in fun, and there's humor in both just listing so many things by themselves, there's also the elaborations of any entry's particularities, since they're usually written by someone in such a way that you laugh at their anger, their dismay, their sadness (as in getting all teary), and their amusement on a subject. They point out the similarities and the defining factors.
 

CD-R

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Mar 1, 2009
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KNOCK IT OFF! YOU ARE NOT A JADED ACADEMIC! YOU HAVE NOT 'SEEN IT ALL BEFORE!' YOU JUST READ IT ON TV TROPES BECAUSE YOU HAD AN HOUR TO KILL BETWEEN LUNCH AND FIREFLY RERUNS! NOW SHUT THE HELL UP AND APOLOGIZE TO THE 10 YEAR-OLD YOU JUST SPENT TWENTY MINUTES CHEWING OUT FOR NOT REALIZING THAT KRULL HAD A GIANT SPIDER BEFORE HARRY POTTER DID!"
And on this day new copypasta was born.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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MovieBob said:
"Until the day that they would realize, with unfolding horror, the toll of their quest: That in seeking only the 'original' they had forgone the power to perceive all else. That they would never again be able to recognize 'beautiful,' 'moving' or even 'frightening'... unable to truly see anything but for the dust it was made of. That having 'seen everything before' means you never really see anything again."
"Aha", said the young man, "I can tell you the tale of a man captured by aliens who have seen everything, but he manages to tell them something completely original."

The aliens sighed and said "Twilight Zone - The New Series : I Of Newton."



"Bollocks" said the young man.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Nov 19, 2009
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I must say that's one helluva zinger. I do really wish people all over would stop acting like the cool, aloof, world-weary Aragorn-esque character and realize they're a bunch twenty-somethings working odd jobs while they procrastinate through higher education. Though I'm still not interested in Avatar, mostly because I wonder if Cameron is trying to feel less guilty than being a billionaire in these unsure times.
 

Sylocat

Sci-Fi & Shakespeare
Nov 13, 2007
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That... is... brilliant. Seriously, this was an amazing column. I think I'll link this on a few of those Avatar-bashing threads on the web.
 

lokidr

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Feb 19, 2010
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Dark Templar said:
lokidr said:
It was completely unoriginal in narrative. The visuals were stunning. The world details in the other materials [http://www.pandorapedia.com/doku.php] were fascinating but largely not included in the movie. The cultures were not original, they weren't supposed to be, it would have ruined allegory and message.

So, it's great eye candy with a wealth of details implied but not examined in the movie. I liked the movie but I prefer more originality in narrative so I didn't think it should be lauded as great movie. But that's why it's art, people can disagree.
Indeed, our differences in opinion are what make for interesting conversation.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the it may not be original as a whole the shear amount of depth was stunning enough to make me like the movie.

I may just be biased though. I'm part native american and just love a good FUCK YOU WHITE MAN type movie XD
Where you see depth, I see plot holes. You like Avatar for other reasons but what does that really say about the movie as a whole? The line between "classic" and "cliche" is how often I've seen it and how much I still like it. Bob panned Book of Eli as unoriginal but I liked it but I just like post-apocalypse movies. That doesn't mean Bob was wrong.
 

Knoxy

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Aug 12, 2009
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A teensy bit preachy in the end there, but still an awesome article definitely laying down some "needed-to-be-said" stuff. Nice One!
 

TheGreatCoolEnergy

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Aug 30, 2009
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Excellent article. I love Tv Tropes by the way, although your article was correct. But I would like to cite you (and everyone who uses tropes to bash stuff) this perticular trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale

To summarize it quickly, it is litteraly impossible to write a story without a trope. The real trick is to take old tropes and make them new/exciting/moving again. Avatar did have an amazing fictional world, and I appluade them for that. But the plot not only failed at being interesting, it didn't even try. It was exactly like Pocahauntus/Dances with Wolves, which sucks because the world they created was so much better than a quick "Stop fucking the enviroment" lecture.
 

lokidr

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Feb 19, 2010
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Bob, can we talk?

MovieBob said:
As a critic, I see a lot of movies - often multiple films in a day, multiple days a week. And that's just at theaters; I see even more at home. In fact, on average I'd say I see at least one new-to-me movie every other day, and that's probably lowballing it. Most people, I'm well aware, don't consume movies this way. The majority of the public maybe sees a new movie each week, and maybe a handful at theaters.
Are you upset at others who put in less "work" than you do the same things you do or that they get it wrong? Seeing the 50,000th person to make a "dances with smurfs" joke does get old but that doesn't make the narrative original.

MovieBob said:
Is it really more satisfying to ignore/dismiss all of that innovation in order to roll your eyes about "The Hot Amazon" or Quaritch being a "General Ripper"?

And y'know what? Even if the answer is "yes," that still doesn't excuse being a douchebag about it - there's no greater abuse of nerdity than treating someone like crap because they've spent slightly less time cataloguing backstory minutia from Dragonball than you have. I'm aware that this is perpetrated mostly by "my people" . . . .
You know, Bob, you have panned your far share of movies for being unoriginal. Is this about movie watchers or Movie Bob watchers?

Every person who intends to reference TV Tropes should be required to link three pages first:
Tropes Are Tools [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad]
TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]
Just Relax [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra]
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
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Dammit Bob.

I have WORK to do today. But now I'm browsing TV Tropes. Thanks a lot.
 

Falseprophet

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Jan 13, 2009
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Zombie_Fish said:
I must say, I really like this article.

To be honest, I've never really understood what's so addictive about TV Tropes that some people would regularly keep 300+ tabs open [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.155308-What-Do-you-expect-from-us#3786883] just for that site. Sure it can be informative when looking into fiction across all forms of media, but it's just something I've never thought of being that interesting, or something that I would want to read addictively.
Well some of us are obsessive geeks fascinated by how many things in the world are connected to each other [http://xkcd.com/214/], and extend it to our entertainment as well. If you're not, or prefer to look into these things another way, that's cool too. To each his own.

My life has been ruined by TV Tropes as well, but I wonder at how many tropers forget Tropes are Not Bad [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad]. All houses are built with hammers and nails, but some are well-built but plain, some are beautiful masterpieces, and some are just disasters.

As for Avatar: Yes, the story was pedestrian. Yes, the visuals were stunning. Yes, the acting seemed flat at times. But it was the details that did win me over despite the hackneyed plot, most notably how the Na'vi could directly interface with the other lifeforms on their planet. (But surprisingly, not with each other during sex [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MissedMomentOfAwesome].) Hometree wasn't just a big plant, it was the repository of their culture. The humans didn't just burn down some trees, they destroyed the Na'vi equivalent to the Library of Alexandria, and as a librarian and student of history, that resonated with me.
 

The Philistine

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Jan 15, 2010
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Avatar catches alot of flak because it's 1) really frelling popular and 2) hyped to hell and back. Being popular it gets talked about alot. Being (over)hyped it's going to have a bunch of folks who are disappointed or unimpressed by the level of frothing fandom the movie has generated.

It's a stunning visual experience. It has a smooth if not original or intricate narrative. The acting was stellar for a sci-fi/eco flick, but certainly not the best out there. Avatar is a box office behemoth and no amount of internet psuedo-critics are going to change that.
 

ZeroMachine

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Oct 11, 2008
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*sticks his head in after months of absence*

That was beautiful, Bob... just beautiful. I've been trying to tell people this for YEARS. It's a real shame when they don't get it, especially when it comes to stuff like Avatar. Luckily, though, the only people that look at it that way are the pompous asshats who refuse to look at the WHOLE picture instead of just the overall.

*returns to the wilds of the internet*
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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Great article Bob.

This is what I am always telling my friends. You do not need to be original to tell a good story.

Avatar is just the modern example of this, its been happening for years.
 

the1ultimate

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Apr 7, 2009
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That's a nice story. Maybe <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanityOnTrial>not entirely original, but I still loved it.

I tend to think that the reason why people are picking on Avatar isn't necessarily because of the unoriginal story, but perhaps because they can't put their finger on some of the deeper issues bothering them about the film, like some of the strange disparities between the apparent amount of thought put into different parts of the film.
For instance, since Cameron had crafted the world in such detail, why didn't he really make the characters (including the bad guys) his own?

Of course it's like you say, <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreNotBad>tropes aren't bad, it all depends on what you make of them.
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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the1ultimate said:
That's a nice story. Maybe <a href=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumanityOnTrial>not entirely original, but I still loved it.
that's what you call a Meta-Joke.