Except this third part will be about female characters that subvert the trope, and she has mentioned that these tropes don't carry across every game ever, and the fact that violence towards women in of itself in games isn't the issue; rather its the context as a plot device and the underlying things it suggests. Not only that, but she did state how some of these tropes also depict negative connotations towards men.Tenmar said:
Great, at least the "villain status" of those disputing her narrative has been reduced from "bloodthirsty woman-haters" to "know-it-alls". I suppose that's at least some progress in crushing this annoying polarization thing that has been going on around the topic.Mick P. said:
That's something that was promised for the second part (this one), actually, so I won't hold my breath. But, well I did say this is less "part 2" than it is "part 1, v2.0", on the other hand...Voulan said:
No. No no no no no. I call false equivalency, false equivalency. You can't just go and compare a trope in a creative medium to the selling and owning of Human beings. They're two different things.Shamanic Rhythm said:
So you would consider that the torture porn genre and the diverse horror exploitation films represent a take on violence and death that is full of gravity and respect? Because I don't consider "Oh, we need something shocking in this part of the game. Uh... just slice open a girl and call it a day" to be respectful at all.Father Time said:
The game isn't acting like it's a big deal for the woman. It acts like it's a big deal to the male protagonist. Anita makes an excellent point when she says that the games frame the context of violence against women not as a terrible thing unto itself, but as an attack on the player's sense of masculinity, due to the patriarchal ideas of "men as the protector" that are still clinging in most people's heads. The violence inflicted against the woman is treated as a terrible thing for the male protagonist, not for the woman. Whatever the woman feels or does in response to this violence is given a token representation, depending on the game, and then you're supposed to fill in the blanks on your own; while the male hero gets to monologue about his manpain to a greater or lesser extent.Father Time said:
Not comparing the two explicitly - more just pointing out that I find the idea that large markets self-regulate on any level to be absurd.erttheking said:
Well, I'm still not sold on this one. I mean, of course having a loved one pummeled and kidnapped is going to be a horrible thing to you. Gender-flip it, and I'm pretty sure in case a female protagonist getting her boyfriend pummeled and kidnapped is a horrible thing for her.Darken12 said:
Well, I'd argue that the cause of that is that she isn't the protagonist, not that she's a woman. It's obviously a terrible thing for both. In and of itself, this isn't a problem, after all, the protagonist is the focus of the story, naturally the impact on them will be the one in the spotlight and the plight of others will act more as a plot device.
Agreed on this point.
"Because if there's one thing we at DOW want you to remember today, it's that the only good skeleton is a gold skeleton."Shamanic Rhythm said:
pewdiepie has every other video flagged. Get a grip.Ronack said:
That's the point, though. It doesn't happen nearly as often. It's very rare that a man has to rescue a male loved one (and I've yet to see a single case where that man isn't a son or much younger brother), or a woman has to rescue a man (especially with the dearth of female protagonists). The tool becomes a trope because it has so many examples backing it up, and she specifically points out Wreck-It Ralph's case as an example where the gender subversion itself is the punchline of the joke, because it happens so rarely so as to be funny when it comes up.Vegosiux said:
Pay attention to the actual game examples. There are plenty of cases where some bad guy taunts the male hero as if the woman was a possession that he has just stolen or destroyed. There are also plenty of examples in the video where the male hero says something along the lines of "it was my job to protect her/keep her safe". That's where the "attack on the character's masculinity" comes from, it's either subtext or even sometimes explicitly stated by the game.Vegosiux said:
Yes, but when the protagonist is almost always male and the character who gets kidnapped, murdered and so on, is almost always female, that's a problem. I personally don't much care for the fact that it's poor storytelling, my main concern is that the genders of these two character archetypes are distressingly unchanging. This whole issue wouldn't be a problem if we had a more or less equal distribution of stories where a man rescues another man, a woman rescues a man, a man rescues a woman, and a woman rescues another woman. While I would agree that the overuse of the trope itself is trite storytelling, the main problem is that it continues to be used in overwhelmingly gendered ways.Vegosiux said:
In the Divine Comedy, Beatrice is in Heaven, looks over Dante, and appeals to the angels to help him. She's the one who pops down into Hell to fetch Virgil to be his guide. At the top of the mountain of Purgatory, she presides over a court for Dante's sins and lays such a smack-down on him that the angels feel sorry. She then serves as his guide through Heaven. He never describes her with anything less than awe and is completely compliant and subservient to her. I mean, at the end, it's all still sexist towards both genders, but at least Dante gives women plenty of agency and an equal share of the afterlife.Ronack said:
C'mon, you post this in every controversial thread. How about be part of that change you seem so desperate for? Have a rational discussion with someone, instead coming into the thread and getting annoyed at everyone.erttheking said:
Several of his Alice: Madness Returns lets plays were taken within hours after he posted them. And by several, I mean 3 or 4 out of the 13 that were made at the time. Do you think a highly visible and controversial figure would be immune?Ronack said:
I've been doing a little bit of chatting in this thread, but mostly I formed a group centered around this concept and take my talking there.General Twinkletoes said: