Tropes vs Women SECOND VIDEO - "Damsel in Distress: Part 2"

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I can sum up my feelings in one sentence: stop stating the obvious. Seriously, these videos are so basic it's not really helping as I could just take a local women's studies class and probably get more done. That is until she did the domestic violence comparison at which point I think I'm going to not deal with this woman anymore. Really? You're going to compare this to a legitimate problem in the real world in order to demonize something? Bad form, Anita, bad form

 

[Aleksei Volchok]

This video is bad. Mostly cause her weak or sometimes outright invalid arguments may me want to argue and appreciate opposite view. Feels almost like a clever misogyny propaganda: look, there's some woman who got 160k and couldn't make decent research beside reading TVTropes page and quoting obvious observations of other people!.. Whatever is her position she's terrible in defending or presentating it. Hand joke is just... pathetic.

Also, I wonder if she knows that Dante's Inferno is (loosely) based on some, you know, old book. Or that all games she mentioned are either ironic, have excuse plot or are much more complex than she tries to show.

 

[Little Duck]

Yeah she's not the world's greatest speaker but she is pointing out flaws that do need to be addressed and the people rallying against her aren't helping their cause by doing it.

 

[Tony2077]

Yeah she's not the world's greatest speaker but she is pointing out flaws that do need to be addressed and the people rallying against her aren't helping their cause by doing it.

some of us knows she has a point but the flaws in the video don't help matters either. baseless comparisons, lack of context

 

[Angelblaze]

But you are automatically insisting that by your OWN OPINION, that that is a mercy and that the women actually always want to be killed.

did you not watch the video in question? Its not my opinion that the women in question wanted to be killed, it was literally the words that came out of there mouthes. Of course it could just be my opinion that "please kill me" in fact means please kill me... It'd be hard to determine this since in the feminist world of double speak yes means no, no means no, up means down, left means blue & bigotry means equality but only as long as it benefits women.

you also completely ignoring when she said that women in fighting games are basically not counted in this trope because they are on equal footing with the other characters

im ignoring it because it has nothing to do with this conversation... Kind of like how you ignoring the fact that the titanic sank in 1912, is evidence of chocolate pudding being the best pudding.

Not to get all tuatological on you but; Irrelevant data is data that is not relevant.

Also: To anyone getting upset that she disabled comments, did you see the comments on her first videos concerning this topic?

Oh hun, she's been disabeling comments long before she rightly got spammed for trying to spam 4/chan. An to be honest, its completely intellectually dishonest to keep on bringing that point up as a defense of her point of view. Her point of view is slimy & her disabling of comments is an attempt to strong arm her opinion into being the only opinion. No, the reason Anita blocks comments is so she can avoid anyone refuting her point of view... But of course she can't control other videos made by other people refuting her view... Thats why her followers recently went on a false flagging binge.

she seems to be getting much unjustified hatred and threats.

1. Not, I'm referring to your own post about saying that 'it isn't domestic abuse, its mercy' and how you would want to be taken out, it appears that you are implying that EVERYONE would consider that mercy - and despite that one vampire woman not seeming to want to be killed mind you - Not everyone has the same opinion you have.

No thank you. I'd like to be a monster before I die.

2. Actually it is kind of relevant when you ignore half of her point to strengthen your own, your post is worded such that you are saying that she is saying ALL beatings and battles are domestic abuse - but that's not what she's saying.
3. Don't call me hun. Thanks.
4. tautological*
5. It doesn't matter how 'slimy' and how shes 'strong arming' her own opinion. It doesn't matter even what her reasons are - I don't care what her reasons are. I'll agree with you under ANY other circumstances, it'd be unjustifiable to turn off the comments, but the fact of the matter is that after rape, assault and murder threats got involved, my belief was that any action taken to remove said threats were positive regardless of whether or not it was helping or hurting the intellectual freedom of her viewers - the rather sparse amount of said intellect being shown was already drowned out by the overwhelming amount of indecent, as someone else in this thread called them, Dude Bros.


And its Youtube 'hun'. You aren't going to find much intellect among the bunch.

 

[Mr. Q]

After watching the video (glad that its back after the YouTube scumbags tried to shut her up by voting her video down as "offensive"), I agree that the damsel in distress trope in its various forms has been beat the fuck to death and its something the industry needs to retire and try new ideas. Same applies to the "grim & gritty" path that has become far too consuming in the market and only panders to the teenage male demo. There are many other avenues to take other than hard boiling your story and world. I get enough of that junk in comic books, does it have to be in video games too?

That said, there are moments where these trope has been done in a proper manner. One example is first God of War, which was played as a Greek tragedy. Kratos is tricked into killing his family and then a Greek god and his actions during the game to avenge his loved ones only compounds his guilt as he slaughters all who stand in his path. Another is Shadows of the Colossus, where the main character tries to bring back his love but the task of killing the colossi only condemn his soul. Sometimes, a trope can be refreshed if given to storytellers that are given the freedom to express it in a new fashion.

My one complaint is that she has yet to offer any ideas or solutions she has to help fix the problem. She might be saving that for a future episode but I hope it comes sooner than later, especially with the long wait time between episodes.

As for the "charming" dipshits who act like she's the next Bin Ladin... I'd like to take the time to explain that your actions only bring more shame to this community and they just portray you as spoiled, pathetic children who truly believe that, if she's heard, the grown-ups will take away all your toys (which, I really wish would happen just because YOU ARE ACTING LIKE FUCKING SPOILED, PATHETIC CHILDREN). But, you know what, I don't have the time or energy to argue with the clueless fuckwits that lurk on the Internet. I've got better things to do today like mowing the lawn or refilling the bird feeder. Instead, I'm just gonna leave these two videos provided by Doug Walker and company to express my contempt for you mindless morons. Enjoy!

Spoiler

 

[LAGG]

Maybe it's too early to judge, let's see what she can do with the remaining $148.000.

 

[Little Duck]

Yeah she's not the world's greatest speaker but she is pointing out flaws that do need to be addressed and the people rallying against her aren't helping their cause by doing it.

some of us knows she has a point but the flaws in the video don't help matters either. baseless comparisons, lack of context

I'm gonna go ahead and play devils advocate here.

She hasn't really got a lot to compare to. Women only recently were considered equal citizens historically and these conversations need to happen in order for culture to change adequately. Now there are games and films and books where increasingly we are getting better and better female rolls. BUT her comparisons aren't baseless. They are pending, this is a series (not the best way to do it but you know nout can do now (and yes there are some sweeping statements)).

 

[Tony2077]

Yeah she's not the world's greatest speaker but she is pointing out flaws that do need to be addressed and the people rallying against her aren't helping their cause by doing it.

some of us knows she has a point but the flaws in the video don't help matters either. baseless comparisons, lack of context

I'm gonna go ahead and play devils advocate here.

She hasn't really got a lot to compare to. Women only recently were considered equal citizens historically and these conversations need to happen in order for culture to change adequately. Now there are games and films and books where increasingly we are getting better and better female rolls. BUT her comparisons aren't baseless. They are pending, this is a series (not the best way to do it but you know nout can do now (and yes there are some sweeping statements)).

some of the stuff she compares to make sense but some of it is like where the hell did you pull that out of.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

But some of these folks don't realize just how many people actively deny there's a problem at all. She's done some pretty exhaustive work to dig up examples (old and new) of these unfortunate plot devices, how and when they happen, and why they're harmful. What's more, she's done it in a very even-handed way, considering the subject matter.

Sometimes you can't rush into advising folks on how to fix a problem. Sometimes you have to chip away, bit by bit, at the wall they put up to hide the fact that the problem exists. That's all she's working on at this point. I imagine this will continue in the next video, when she (I believe) points out just how difficult it is to find gender reversals of these tropes -- and, inevitably, the fact that the games actually play that reversal for laughs, or otherwise paint it as outlandish.

Is this a problem? Sure. But, to be listened to and acknowledged is not a guarantee the audience will agree with the speaker. The presumption I've found among many feminists, but particularly those of a more radical bent, is their cause is so righteous, and their arguments so infallible, that they are to be accepted by default, and to disagree with them is to deny gender inequity exists and to argue with them is an attempt at suppression. Rational discourse does not work that way.

Saying "getting men to acknowledge the problem at all is the trouble!" is effectively meaningless, because there are two groups of men in this regard. There are those who already do listen, and there are those who will never listen. Arguing the former category should do more to marginalize the latter is fine, but patronizing the former category -- whose agreement is not guaranteed by simply having engaged in speech -- is not helpful.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Yet, I elected to single out Borderlands 2 because it's particularly egregious in the field of cherry-picking.

Well, no, not really.

Just about all of her examples are stripped of explanatory context which would be evident to someone who had actually played the game not just read about it on the internet.

(Also, did anyone else laugh and/or rolleyes when she said "and this happens in modern games as well" and lead with examples that are 12-15 years old?)

 

[Tony2077]

Yet, I elected to single out Borderlands 2 because it's particularly egregious in the field of cherry-picking.

Well, no, not really.

Just about all of her examples are stripped of explanatory context which would be evident to someone who had actually played the game not just read about it on the internet.

(Also, did anyone else laugh and/or rolleyes when she said "and this happens in modern games as well" and lead with examples that are 12-15 years old?)

i don't think there that old. i agree some of the stuff was so out of context it made the game seem as deep as a puddle. the male jabs didn't really help her point any

 

[Charli]

All that's ever need to be said about this woman, topic and project has been said.

If you wanna support women in the game industry, support the women. in. the. game. industry.

They're on social media websites, they're working hard and tirelessly to get their visions across to a place that is hard of hearing and they're strong but silent (Mostly due to working). Support a woman in the game industry, find out what they've done in projects and if you like it, just say so. Give them a tiny bit of self confidence ammo. And you've done a little bit of good.

See a female name in a list of credits on a game you enjoyed? Look em up, ask em what parts they played in, you could hate their contribution or they could have secretly developed or conceived your favorite part of the game. Who knows!

But this will help the ladies in the industry more than listening to someone wittering on about what IS wrong.
And she has points, don't get me wrong, she has a hell of a lot of points, but she also has an agenda attached. And that doesn't always lend itself to solving things the diplomatic way.

 

[Snowblindblitz]

An emulator? It only came out a few years ago. Supergiant games is working on their next game right now too, Transistor I think is the name? It is looking interesting. Have you seen anything on Bastion? Game narratives don't come better, and one of the only games I've seen to apply a narrator to a game, and it just delivers.

Yeah. It may be that long before I get around to playing it. If its still popular by then. No offense, but you don't want to get stuck in the trap of only getting to experience things (media) that just happened to happen when you were a certain age / receptive to it. You might be living in a dark age. And you'd never know

You just make some big claims, like gaming at an all time low, changing the face of gaming-I consider Bastion to have done all that. I feel nothing at so many games stories, because Bastion made me care about every character-it even subverts the DiD trope, and nothing else approaches it in quality. I always jump in Anita threads to bump this game, because it is a work of art that needs the attention. And to watch a "feminist" wave it off as another DiD is just insulting, like her misunderstanding of a Slutwalk.

You can't make those claims while waving off other games to come back to based on if it's popular. That is like saying I enjoy cubism, but don't think it's doing very good and don't want to check out that Picasso fella.

 

[samahain]

Ok... LOTS of CRAPPy games as example...

I'm done listening to her. The segment between 4:15 and 5:04 offends me. Abrasively.

I'm insulted as a man and as a gamer. I've been in a steady relationship for over ten years, I love my girlfriend, I care a lot about her. And YES saving the girl is an "empowerment fantasy" in occident WE HAVE NO HEROES! We will NEVER save the girl, not like that anyway...

We *SWOONED* me and her when I cleared the first level of ICO.

 

[GloatingSwine]

i don't think there that old. i agree some of the stuff was so out of context it made the game seem as deep as a puddle. the male jabs didn't really help her point any

Some of the ones she mentioned specifically by name are. Outlaws was 1998, Medievil 2 was 2000. These aren't exactly recent titles.

 

[NightmareExpress]

Feminism is a necessary thing for video games.
But Anita is the last person that we need to bring that onto the scene.
She does the wrong things, she does them in a wrong way and I don't think that she's a good person.
Another scumbag internet individual, big surprise.

What we need is more focus on female contributions to the field and a way of making getting into the industry more appealing in general. All of this depends on gender neutrality; undoing the typical stereotypes and roles traditionally ingrained into our minds. Saying "this being depicted in a video game is wrong" accomplishes next to nothing, there's a bigger push and realization that needs to be made.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

I know this is nitpicking but isn't one of the playable characters in borderlands female?

"Research shows"
What research? If you don't provide links or at least name the survey you might as well be lying.

I also feel like she's overstating how much "patriarchal roles" have to do with the emotions attached, and she at least consistently failes to come up with an argument as to why it's not just emotions of this person attached to this other person.

Men loving their wives and children and wanting to protect them has more to do with love, attachment and empathy towards your family than some bullshit societal pressure for christs sake.
Yes there's the overarching theme of patriarchy but the motivation stems primarily from empathy.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Just about all of her examples are stripped of explanatory context which would be evident to someone who had actually played the game not just read about it on the internet.

How many other games did she mention, build up over the course of the entire franchise (albeit by retcon in the case of the first game) a statement about misogyny, the actual trope in question, female empowerment, and defying patriarchal rule, that's delivered in a singular, defining moment -- the exact moment she calls out as inherently misogynistic?

That's not a throwaway moment or plot twist -- it's the defining moment of the plot's foremost theme, which is misogyny and the overthrow of patriarchy. It marginalizes and dismisses the entire goddamn game.

 

[Dastardly]

Saying "getting men to acknowledge the problem at all is the trouble!" is effectively meaningless, because there are two groups of men in this regard. There are those who already do listen, and there are those who will never listen. Arguing the former category should do more to marginalize the latter is fine, but patronizing the former category -- whose agreement is not guaranteed by simply having engaged in speech -- is not helpful.

While I understand what you're getting at, you've set up a false dichotomy. There are not just two camps of men, first of all. After all, how do you think the "already listen" camp got people in the first place? There were people in the "not paying attention" or "didn't see the big deal" camp, and something or someone got their attention and showed them the big deal.

But furthermore, an awareness campaign like this also serves to help women better understand the problem. Don't make the mistake of thinking this campaign is directed at men. It's directed at a problem. That problem is the treatment of female characters in relation to male characters. And there are plenty of women that contribute to the problem, too. The "men" being targeted by these arguments are the fictional ones (and, to a certain degree, the real ones behind the writing).

And yet another group this kind of thing helps are those people who want to fight the problem, but aren't sure how to express it. It helps give shape (and information) to their own understanding, thus making them better at supporting their chosen cause.

You've taken the basic approach that everyone already believes what they're going to believe. That's problematic, because no one is born racist or Christian or agnostic or speaking French or countless other learned behaviors. And if it can be learned, it can be unlearned and corrected. Otherwise, there's no point in your reply to my post -- after all, if you really believed what you're saying, you'd think I already believe what I'm going to believe, right?

I think you've touched on one of the big issues, though -- a lot of people develop problems with campaigns like this because they assume they are the target audience... or rather, some villainized version of themselves, as perceived by the speaker. We have a tendency to seek out offense, and then take it gladly.