Trying to Find a Certain Kind of Game

[Xangba]

So bear with me as I try to word this correctly. A few games I've played have had some kind of management system (NWN2 Keep, for a light example). I always found the idea of these interesting, but always lacking. Does anyone know of a game where this is a big part? Managing a keep, or town, or what have you, actually being able to see it grow, being able to interact with the people, and staff, and guards, and defend it, with that RPG aspect where I'm down there with my own character and growing with it. I want it to feel alive. I'd prefer it to be something along the lines of directly controlling a party or single character, assuming this even exists. I just don't want the detachment from it that comes with RTS games, where (aside from potentially a couple "hero" characters) all the people are lifeless pawns to order to their death

 

[TehCookie]

You mean like the Sims? Because you're describing the Sims.

In Recettear you manage a shop, even if it's not quite a whole town.

 

[Xangba]

No, not the Sims. Sims Medieval was kind of nifty but there's no real threat or story, plus I place buildings sure, but I don't actually grow the town if you know what I mean (probably don't considering I am failing hard at describing this lol). To be fair it is the right concept, just not quite the right gameplay or plot/conflict and considering I'm not able to properly put this into words I understand where you're coming from. And I own Recettear actually, neat little game. An example of something in the right direction that I remembered after posting is Hinterland, but that game is really lacking in every area aside from concept.

 

[shrekfan246]

There's still a degree of detachment, but Jagged Alliance 2, Divinity: Dragon Commander, and Spellforce 2 might offer varying degrees of what you're looking for.

Jagged Alliance 2 is a turn-based tactical strategy RPG where you basically control a mercenary force with the objective of liberating a fictional country from its tyrannical leader. From what I understand, all of the mercenaries have their own unique personalities and thus aren't subjected to the usual "cannon fodder" syndrome strategy games typically have.

Divinity: Dragon Commander probably has the most persistent "management" of the three, as you're the base-born dragon son of a dead king working from an airship to unite the kingdom under one rule, and throughout the game you're interacting with military and political advisers and making critical decisions that drastically alter some of the events you encounter or how your subjects might potentially view you. You don't see much of "the little guy", though, outside of amusing little headlines from a newspaper on every new turn; Most of your interactions with the various races comes through their political envoys on your ship. The combat is a bit simple and has "cannon fodder" syndrome for the basic combat units, though.

Spellforce 2 is somewhere a bit in between. It's an RTS-RPG, in a far-expanded version of the way, say, Warcraft III did it with leveling Hero units. You create your avatar and then go through the story of the game, meeting other Hero units that join you to form a party which you can level and equip while you undertake quests much like any normal western RPG, but various portions of each area tend to turn into base-building, resource-gathering RTS battles as well, where you lead your party alongside a horde of nameless soldiers against enemies, either defending areas or directly attacking bases. There's no one persistent base you always return to, however (or at least not as far as I've gotten in the game so far, which is admittedly only about ten hours or so).

 

[Xangba]

double post, ignore my fumbling ways

 

[Xangba]

snip

Hm, I have yet to look at Dragon Commander (I liked the Dragon Knight Chronicles, so I'm not sure why I never looked into it), but I didn't know about its management aspects, so I'll have to actually look into that. Years ago I started playing Spellforce a little, but got caught up in other things and it kind of fell to the side. From what I remember it's base building was your usual RTS with it just being the separated buildings instead of making an actual town but thank you for reminding me about it because it was a fun game. Jagged Alliance I've never heard of, but that sounds really awesome actually, I'll be checking that one out. I can already see this is going to result in me having a backlog of games lol

 

[Vern5]

Have you looked at State of Decay yet? It's another zombie survival sim with a focus on maintaining a small community of AI companions. The bulk of the game is you running around gathering supplies and killing zombies when you must. You then use those supplies to feed your companions or improve your current dwelling.

There are RPG elements as well. You only control one character at a time but their various skills (gathering, scouting, shooting, zombie-smacking, etc.) will improve with use.

 

[Xangba]

The bulk of the game is you running around gathering supplies and killing zombies when you must. You then use those supplies to feed your companions or improve your current dwelling.

There are RPG elements as well. You only control one character at a time but their various skills (gathering, scouting, shooting, zombie-smacking, etc.) will improve with use.

...you have my attention. Definitely checking this one out, thanks

 

[shrekfan246]

Hm, I have yet to look at Dragon Commander (I liked the Dragon Knight Chronicles, so I'm not sure why I never looked into it), but I didn't know about its management aspects, so I'll have to actually look into that.

There's little in the way of direct building and whatnot unfortunately, but you have to be mindful of the battle map a la Risk, constantly watching the territories you and your opponents own and where all friendly or hostile units might be positioned at any given time. And the political decisions you make require you to juggle which groups of people you want to appease, because of the five major races that make up your political cabinet, there will always be a majority that agrees or disagrees with whatever movement is brought up, and the choice you make causes either the minority to like you more and the majority to like you less or vice versa.

Much like most Larian games, it's a bit rough around the edges, but I've found it quite compelling so far, myself.

EDIT: It does bear mentioning that throughout the campaign, the enemy AI can be quite cruel to the player, though.

Jagged Alliance I've never heard of, but that sounds really awesome actually, I'll be checking that one out. I can already see this is going to result in me having a backlog of games lol

As far as Jagged Alliance 2 is concerned, it is a relatively old game at this point. There's an "unofficial" '1.13' patch/mod that has a whole host of fixes and updates for the game, but I think it's still one you'll need a bit of patience to really appreciate if you look further into it.

 

[Xangba]

snip

Even without the actual building aspect it still sounds rather interesting, plus just because I'm hoping to find a certain kind of game doesn't mean I'm closed to other things that sound very fun! I could never restrict myself like that lol. As for Jagged Alliance, age doesn't matter much to me. A solid game with a good experience isn't dictated by shiny graphics. Hell I still play the first Fallout haha

 

[Guffe]

Well in "Black and White" you make a town grow and you defend it etc.

Only you are the "guardian/God" of the town so you're not a character in the town...

Old game, was interesting, only I played it too young an age and didn't get that far due to not understanding everything. maybe I should give it a second shot myself

 

[Amaror]

Spellforce 2 is somewhere a bit in between. It's an RTS-RPG, in a far-expanded version of the way, say, Warcraft III did it with leveling Hero units. You create your avatar and then go through the story of the game, meeting other Hero units that join you to form a party which you can level and equip while you undertake quests much like any normal western RPG, but various portions of each area tend to turn into base-building, resource-gathering RTS battles as well, where you lead your party alongside a horde of nameless soldiers against enemies, either defending areas or directly attacking bases. There's no one persistent base you always return to, however (or at least not as far as I've gotten in the game so far, which is admittedly only about ten hours or so).

I second Spellforce 2. Plus rather early in the game you get your own "Fief" which is basically a map with a run down town on it. On your travels you can then recruit characters to join your town, collect ressources to build it back up to glory and improve it in various other ways. This gets supported by the fact that the manager of the town, only manages to "find" some of the treasures that the town owns, when you support it well enough. So the better you build the town up the more items he gives you.
There is no actual simulation like managment involved though.

 

[2xDouble]

It sounds like you're looking for some old-school Molyneaux. I would look into Populous or its modern "spiritual successor", Godus. It doesn't quite get down to the personal level for each individual character, but you do guide the civilization as it grows and matures, as well as defend it as needed.

Someone mentioned The Sims, which is pretty much what you described, but I would suggest going further back in the series, specifically to a game called SimAnt. The characters don't have personalities to speak of (because they're ants), but the game engenders a feeling of attachment to your colonies and swarms like no other RTS/management/god game I've ever played... though I admit I've never played the Black and White series, which I hear is also good at that.

Similar mention should go to classic SimCity as well. As you may or may not already know, SimCity's primary building method is through zoning rather than specific placement, you create an area where things can be built and the people build on their own according to the zone (residential, industrial, commercial). Sure, if you need a specific building, you'll have to place that yourself, but other than that it's automatic and scales to your city's prosperity. SimCity 4, specifically, expanded the series with a "street view" mode that lets you sort-of interact with the people, following them around and seeing life through their eyes.

Side Note: The most recent SimCity, if it ever gets its shit together, would be pretty much ideal based on your description... in theory. But, I simply cannot recommend that game in its current state.

Others have mentioned it before, but you might also look into the Divinity series, specifically the latest entry: Dragon Commander. Divinity: Dragon Commander focuses more on politics and story elements, with a heavy focus on characterization and grand strategy over physical building. (more Risk, less SimCity) The actual combat missions/mechanics can become rather tedious once the dazzle of being a freaking dragon with a jetpack!! wears off, but thankfully that's not the primary focus of the game.

For a slightly different perspective, why not look into Terraria? This is more literally a world-building game, wherein you gather resources and craft them into various useful and/or decorative objects. Unlike similar games, such as Minecraft, as you build your little shanty-town (and complete certain objectives), various helpful NPCs, each with distinct personalities, will move in and occupy any suitable homes you build. Terarria also boasts Zelda-style zones and boss fights, with high emphasis on crafting gear and weapons.

Obligatory mention of Fire Emblem... I know, you said you were looking for more city management and less RTS, but the Fire Emblem series (and pretty much any Atlus tactical games: Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre series, etc.) are just damn good games. They put some serious effort into making "you" a major part of the story, rather than the disembodied "Hand of God".

I can recommend a little indie title on Steam Greenlight called "You are Not the Hero". It's set in the stereotypical medieval fantasy RPG world, but casts you as a townsperson in one of those games, as opposed to the "savior/destroyer of the world". You are tasked with building a thriving NPC village and occasionally have to deal with the aftermath of epic battles between good and evil. This game is not quite finished yet, last time I checked, but the demo looks promising.

 

[Darknacht]

Haven and Hearth you build it they will come and by they I mean raiders.

Haven and hearth is a free online economy simulator with open world pvp and perma death true sandbox so you can build your settlement in a persistent world. Fend off real player character raiders or be a raider yourself team up to build your own village and try to take over the world become a high quality trader forage for rare materials and dig all the way down to level 5 mines choose your own goals in a fun world that is absolutely massive and brutally unforgiving.

This. Or Salem a newer, though less finished, game of a similar type by the same devs.

 

[Silver]

The Guild or it's sequel. You control a family in medieval town, trying to eke out a living as craftsmen or scholars. You can at any time control up to three members of your dynasty, marrying them off, get them houses, buy them places of work, upgrade and hire guards, workers or get involved in city politics, getting elected to a city official, all with special privileges; control of the city guard, the ability to steal from the treasury, diplomatic immunity, etc.

As your family members grow old, or useless you can voluntarily cede control of them in favour of younger members of the family, competing all the while against a bunch of other dynasties in the same city, village or region.

There are no sieges, and not very advanced combat unless you choose to take the robber baron route, establishing hideouts and ambushing caravans as your families business, but the rest of what you're after seems to be there.


A little less personal, but still a lot of fun would be Towns. At least in the beginning you'll (or I will at least, you might feel otherwise) form a personal connection to each of your rather few townies. You're in charge of the creation of the typical fantasy village that takes center stage in Diablo, or Neverwinter Nights, or any other RPG, but the roles are reversed. You play as the town, the villagers, and you have to attract heroes there with a nice tavern and by opening the road down into the scary dungeon below.

 

[mistahzig1]

Project Spark --> create the game you want yourself ;o)

 

[Jodah]

Have you looked at State of Decay yet? It's another zombie survival sim with a focus on maintaining a small community of AI companions. The bulk of the game is you running around gathering supplies and killing zombies when you must. You then use those supplies to feed your companions or improve your current dwelling.

There are RPG elements as well. You only control one character at a time but their various skills (gathering, scouting, shooting, zombie-smacking, etc.) will improve with use.

How is it for solo though? I've heard it's mainly a multiplayer game, which to me is a turn off.

 

[Xangba]

snip

Like I said earlier I have Sims Medieval, was actually playing it the other day. Just something about the Sims always left me detached, even from characters I made. I just end up imagining character interactions and stories in my head. I've been considering looking into Godus, but a friend has it so I'll probably end up trying it on his Steam (I've still got some old Molyneux games as well). I've logged quite a few hours on Terraria too lol, though the spectre armor kind of breaks it. When I can stand still and never die with a mana flower from all the health steal...yeah. And I have a fair few Fire Emblem too But You Are Not the Hero could be interesting, so I'll look into that. (didn't mention Dragon Commander because I'm already checking that out, someone beat you to it lol)

snip

Hm I'll take a look at The Guild, that sounds nifty. And I already own Towns

I know it's hard to find this exact mix, it's almost like what Inquisition is saying they'll do (which I'm skeptical about but we'll see) with their customizable fortress and outposts. I get the feeling their system will end up being rather shallow and it growing won't change more than a couple lines of dialogue, but we'll see. But thanks for all the great suggestions so far guys!