Tsunami Wombat Considers: Superman

[TsunamiWombat]

So I got to thinking...

...How about a Teen Titans Regular Titans Batgirl Nightwing Robin Deathstroke Flash Superman Wonder Woman Captain Marvel Doctor Fate Green Lantern Green Arrow Hawkgirl Hawkman Justice League game?

...On second thought, I have absolutely no idea how I feel about it-- can you name another DC character that would be good in a video game?

Any of them really, if the story is good that is. Except maybe Superman, either the story will be unbelievable or they'll have to downplay his powers too much.

On a side note DCUO [http://dcuo.station.sony.com/], the one upcoming DC game I'll definately give a try.

The primary problem with Superman is his invulnerability, his localized telekinetic field makes him more or less industructible. His powers however are tied to his exposure to sunlight, so you can mess with this by mucking with his exposure to sunlight. Fill the sky with smoke, attack him at night, etc.

Let me design a mechanic right now.

Supermans powers are unlimited and rechargible, but are tied to his pool of Solar Energy. As long as he's in direct sunlight, his powers are almost limitless. But that energy is one of his limits. Fufill these objectives:

1. Set the game early in Supermans heroic career, thus ensuring he isn't too powerful and allowing for an EXP mechanic so you can improve and gain powers and ability as you play, a logical representation of Supermans exercise of his powers and the growing proficiency with them, as well as his countiued exposure to sunlight.

2. Supermans power pool should be seperated into two segments, Core Energy and Extra Energy. Extra Energy represents what Superman is absorbing from the sun, right then, and both regenerates (in sunlight) and burns up quickly. Core Energy represents power stored away in his body, and is a deeper reservoir then Extra energy- however, it regenerates much slower, and only regenerates when Superman has full Extra Energy. The trick is to balance this so Superman can remain constantly active but still run the risk of exhausting himself if he's getting overwhelmed. Flight and X Ray vision and Basic Combat should take little or preferrably no energy. Heat Vision and Super Breath should drain energy by the second used to an amount variable to it's level, gunfire should drain energy over time by small amounts as well. Feats of super strength such as lifting objects over 1 ton, super powered moves such as Supermans trademark haymaker o doom or air suplexes, and taking large amounts of damage (such as being shot by a tank or hit by a building) should take large chunks of power. Beneath these layers of power should be Supermans health, which can only be damaged when his core energy is drained (core energy regeneration should be stacked in a way that it regenerates slower the more full it is, and vice versa, to prevent getting stunlocked or unable to regenerate the energy to protect yourself for fairness).

3. Supermans enemies should exploit his weaknesses. Kryptonite exposure should increase power reduction by at least 50%, wether it be Kryptonite laced bullets or a Kryptonite Laser. But Kryptonite should not be the only crutch. Enemies should employ night fighting tactics (supermans energy regeneration should be reduced at night to maybe 75 or 60% because he's only absorbing whats reflected off the moon), they should employ magic to which Superman should be less resistant to ala Kryptonite and he is vulnerable to mental influencing confusion spells as well. More mundane options include airburst smoke grenades, creating a zone with drastically reduced or no energy regeneration forcing Superman to disengage and fly above the smoke OR blow the particle effects away with his superbreath/superspeed.

I totally gotta do another game design thread on this now.

Why are there no good Superman games? To hell with Prototype, a Superman game would be the ultimate power fantasy. And yet, and yet, none is forthcoming. But hope springs eternal, and the recent Arkham Asylum ends the run of abysmal Batman games. Why not Superman too?

My thoughts:

The Run Down

1. Game should be set early in Supermans career and highlight Metropolis' initial reaction to Superman, his rivalry with Lex, and a few other can't miss villains such as Bizzaro (failed superman clone by Luthor, in this story), Metallo (a petty thug injured after a conflict with Superman and rebuilt by Luthor, in this story), Brainiac (alliance of convienience/salvaged by Luthor?), and ultimatly General Zod (released from Phantom Zone by Luthor?)

2. Supermans solar energy mechanic (above) should play a large part.

3. Sandbox Metropolis with persistant, fully destructible environments and Day/Night Cycle.

4. Notoriety system: No morality choices, superman = hero. But if you go around destroying buildings, People will react negativly to you. Luthor gains public support = stronger enemies?(further thought)

Gameplay should consist of fighting basic crime in Metropolis (zz) until you run afoul of Luthor by not agreeing to work for him (This happened in the comics, Luthor is such a control freak he decided to destroy Superman). The situation should increasingly escalate to rediculous proportions as Luthor secretly funds and supplies attempts to destroy you (advanced weapons to gangs), leading up to a failed cloning attempt (Bizzaro), then allying with the alien Brainiac to destroy you (giving him the technoligy to create Metallo, a combat armor for Brainiac, etc) leading up to a fight with Zod as the final conflict, a Kryptonian warrior and Supermans Equal.

Feeling powerful is paramount, there should also be ample destruction as your enemies fling you around.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

No ones interested in discussing a Superman game huh? Oh well..

 

[Kermi]

The problem with Superman games is that there's a problem with Superman, period.

He's basically invincible, with his main weakness being kryptonite, to the extent that the phrase "kryptonite" replaces "Achilles' heel" in 99% of pop-culture referencing - so even in the comics, the only way to give Superman a challenge was to fuck up his day with kryptonite. Which makes everything predictable and boring. Granted, later on they nerfed Superman a little bit so other superpowered creatures could snot him good and proper, but then he died, came back, died again, and who the hell knows what.

Now it seems like an interesting system you've got there, and the notoriety system seems like a very good way to keep the player in check without bullshit morality that never works anyway.
As for Superman being solar powered... that's more of a Birdman idea - he literally couldn't sit in the shade without coming over all faint, but Superman has a little more longevity in how much exposure to the sun he needs - otherwise he'd be ruined every time the sun went down in the evening which is kind of pointless for a superhero in a cityscape when most urban criminals have the sense to work under the cover of darkness.
I suppose you could throw in the obligatory sewer/cave/lava level and have Supes get progressively weaker the closer you get to the end of the level, but you'd draw a lot of complaints.

 

[Syphonz]

I ask this: Why isn't there a game featuring Superman's lesser known side

I kid of course. but it unfortunate we'll never see Red Son beat up Batman with a ushanka.

 

[QuirkyTambourine]

The problem with Superman games is that there's a problem with Superman, period.

He's basically invincible, with his main weakness being kryptonite, to the extent that the phrase "kryptonite" replaces "Achilles' heel" in 99% of pop-culture referencing - so even in the comics, the only way to give Superman a challenge was to fuck up his day with kryptonite. Which makes everything predictable and boring. Granted, later on they nerfed Superman a little bit so other superpowered creatures could snot him good and proper, but then he died, came back, died again, and who the hell knows what.

This very much so. Who wants to play a game where God Mode is activated for you? I'd like to see a game in the fashion you described, but perhaps not as Superman. Also, morality systems can work they just have to be really really really deep into order for them to feel realistic at all.

I do love the idea of a fully destructible Metropolis that's fully functional as a regular city, but I think technology hasn't quite caught up to that yet.

 

[hypothetical fact]

The problem is convincing people that superman isn't invulnerable. Sure he's strong but he's fighting Darkseid, Doomsday, Brainiac and all he regular villains that can beat him if they get the jump on him, like parasite. But the moment you make an accurate game with them in everybody will whine, "I'm superman why can't I just punch them into next tuesday?".

 

[TsunamiWombat]

The problem is convincing people that superman isn't invulnerable. Sure he's strong but he's fighting Darkseid, Doomsday, Brainiac and all he regular villains that can beat him if they get the jump on him, like parasite. But the moment you make an accurate game with them in everybody will whine, "I'm superman why can't I just punch them into next tuesday?".

Also point of order, Darksied has mopped the floor with Superman before. Part of it is Supermans inability to really let himself go, he's mentally conditioned himself to a signifigant degree to ALWAYS hold back so he won't kill people. At least until he feels like he's in a World of Cardboad. ...[/youtube]If Superman ever went batshit crazy...well...Thats why Batman has contingencies.

It's important to also note Supermans vulnerability to magic, to which his invulnerability is greatly reduced- mentally, he's still just a normal man, albiet one with tremendous discipline.

Superman definatly has Solar Longevity, but I didn't say his powers would stop working, just regenerate slower. And if he's at the beginning of his career, it also makes sense for him to be weaker.

 

[minoes]

No ones interested in discussing a Superman game huh? Oh well..

How about this:

1. Make the game about "Clark Kent becoming Superman".

2. Then put him against something apocalyptic (something along the lines of Darkseid or Imperiex), that way we have a situation where this young man is mankind only hope, a classic video game scenario.

 

[Magnatek]

The problem with Superman games is that there's a problem with Superman, period.

He's basically invincible, with his main weakness being kryptonite, to the extent that the phrase "kryptonite" replaces "Achilles' heel" in 99% of pop-culture referencing - so even in the comics, the only way to give Superman a challenge was to fuck up his day with kryptonite. Which makes everything predictable and boring. Granted, later on they nerfed Superman a little bit so other superpowered creatures could snot him good and proper, but then he died, came back, died again, and who the hell knows what.

What if the game had a few levels where Superman was on a planet with a red sun? People never get that Superman has more than one weakness. He has his power through the light of a yellow sun, and a yellow sun alone. If under a red sun, I think he's just like a normal human(I think. I don't breath too much into Superman comics).

 

[scotth266]

There are two reasons that there haven't been a good Superman game yet: first, the stigmata in the game design industry associated with the character, and second, the problems inherent in the character's various powers.

I actually like the system that you've introduced with health, energy, and plotlines: the issue then is to work out the controls. Powers such as super-breath and heat vision are easily handled, as is physical combat on the ground, but what about flight, and the principles of air combat? Those are not so easily handled.

Oh, and I recommend you try the game The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction. It showcases the perfect way to do super-strength hero combat on the ground.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

There are two reasons that there haven't been a good Superman game yet: first, the stigmata in the game design industry associated with the character, and second, the problems inherent in the character's various powers.

I actually like the system that you've introduced with health, energy, and plotlines: the issue then is to work out the controls. Powers such as super-breath and heat vision are easily handled, as is physical combat on the ground, but what about flight, and the principles of air combat? Those are not so easily handled.

Oh, and I recommend you try the game The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction. It showcases the perfect way to do super-strength hero combat on the ground.

Played it, Loved it, wish they had countinued on that path.

To me, air combat is simple, See Zone of Enders where you zip around and do air combo's, or a dash n smash attack. Flight should be something toggled on and off with the click of a button.

Assign up to RT and down to LT and there you go. Obviously you should be able to steer anywhere you want in the air using dual analog, but if you want to add up or down impetus or go straight up or down, you use the triggers. Map Heat Vision to RB, super breath to LB. Right analog click enters a detailed aiming mode so you can heat vision snipe. Square/X is light attack, Triangle/Y is heavy, hold for different powers. Superman doesn't fight like batman mind you so there shouldn't be zippy Arkham Asylum combat, more traditional brawler with combo's or special moves. Oh, and O/B is grab/lift. Certain heavyier objects can require mini QTE that make you tap the button, such as lifting say A BRIDGE (the whole goddamn bridge). Oh and A/X should be dash/air dash. No real need for a jump button when you can fly, but tapping A/X can make you jump off the ground if you really need it. Clicking left analog activates X-Ray Vision (see Detective Mode, AA)

Lifting such heavy objects should drain energy, using super grab in the air should increase that consumption too. You should be able to lift pretty much anything thats not rooted to the ground though, such as grabbing a tank by it's turrent, then spinning around (by holding Triangle/Y) and hammer tossing it.

No ones interested in discussing a Superman game huh? Oh well..

How about this:

1. Make the game about "Clark Kent becoming Superman".

2. Then put him against something apocalyptic (something along the lines of Darkseid or Imperiex), that way we have a situation where this young man is mankind only hope, a classic video game scenario.

Well thats what I suggested, though I only got as apocolyptic as General Zod (which is pretty goddamn apocolyptic when you consider he has all of Supermans powers and the willingness to use lethal force every time)

1. Game should be set early in Supermans career and highlight Metropolis' initial reaction to Superman, his rivalry with Lex, and a few other can't miss villains such as Bizzaro (failed superman clone by Luthor, in this story), Metallo (a petty thug injured after a conflict with Superman and rebuilt by Luthor, in this story), Brainiac (alliance of convienience/salvaged by Luthor?), and ultimatly General Zod (released from Phantom Zone by Luthor?)

 

[minoes]

Well thats what I suggested*, though I only got as apocolyptic as General Zod (which is pretty goddamn apocolyptic when you consider he has all of Supermans powers and the willingness to use lethal force every time)

But there is only one Zod, if you want to balance Superman strenght and resistance, you need an army of super villians that are at least as strong as him.

Another option would be making a new continuity just for the game, one in wich Superman is still super strong and can fly (but only at subsonic speeds), but is not nigh invulnerble.


*[small/][I/]And yes, I was only bumping your thread[/I].[/small]

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Well thats what I suggested*, though I only got as apocolyptic as General Zod (which is pretty goddamn apocolyptic when you consider he has all of Supermans powers and the willingness to use lethal force every time)

But there is only one Zod, if you want to balance Superman strenght and resistance, you need an army of super villians that are at least as strong as him.

Another option would be making a new continuity just for the game, one in wich Superman is still super strong and can fly (but only at subsonic speeds), but is not nigh invulnerble.


*[small/][I/]And yes, I was only bumping your thread[/I].[/small]

I dunno, I think legions of weak opponents could do the job too with the energy system. Save Darksied for a sequel