Turn Based Combat

[pablogonzalez]

in many RPG's you generally see a turn based combat system
some take place in turns
some (most) final fantasy games have that arbitary recharge time system (unsure what the name is)
now consider the gameplay of say Oblivion, as it is an action system it creates a sort of realtime feeling and in general ends up becoming a very immersive expierience, however turn based combat is so broken up so arbitary so slow so....well its not AS good as an real time system.

the basic question is: How can a turn based combat system be immersive or work in sync with story?

 

[Flames66]

I personally don't think it can. I don't enjoy it and avoid it like the plague. However I understand that there are people who enjoy it and I don't begrudge them their fun. I also like VATS mode in Fallout 3 which is kind of leaning towards turn based.

 

[repeating integers]

Well, I recall that there have been some Yu-gi-oh games in the past...

 

[Rabish Bini]

I thought it worked well in KotOR..

 

[Smooth Operator]

It can't because our perception of time just doesn't work that way.

The closest thing is going in the middle and do old school pause based combat, time still flows coherently it just gives you that extra bit to get all your tactics in.

 

[Phishfood]

Turn based combat was great in X-Com.

The "pausing RTS" combat in the later ones was better.

I think I agree, having real time control is much nicer for a single character. The arbitrary "I hit him then he hits me" is odd. Why can't I hit him 3 times? Why can't he hit me 3 times?

However in the X-Com type games where you could be controlling 14 characters, turnbased adds different elements.



Bringing in the point about story... How the game runs has very little to do with the story. You could have a turn based game stuffed with cutscenes or you could do the whole "plot is explained by the environment" just as easily as you can in an fps.

Or, you know... you could have a game with a self-aware plot where a wizard has cursed the land so everyone moves in turn and all the characters stand around bored waiting for the next guy to move.

 

[kingcom]

the basic question is: How can a turn based combat system be immersive or work in sync with story?

They already solved this problem. Its called continuous turned based. Rounds of combat are performed based on the users last input automatically continue until the player manual pauses the game to set subsequent actions. See Infinity Engine (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment) games, Kotor etc.

 

[RemuValtrez]

Having immersion with turn based combat is almost impossible unless it's something you are meant to have turns in (Yu-Gi-Oh). But it can work well into story such as Fire Emblem, where you are playing a tactician trying to make it so your army will win the war. It's a fairly light version of role playing, but I still count it in!

 

[Llil]

A game doesn't have to be "realistic" or real time to be immersive. It's enough that the world and characters are well built. For example, the first 2 Fallouts have turn based combat, and an isometric view, and they still managed to get me immersed in the world and the story.

What turn based combat does is that it shifts the focus from the player's reflexes and dexterity with the controller to optimising your cahracter's skills and figuring out the best strategy to beat an enemy. Real time is about how well you can do something, and turn based is about how well you can make use of what your character can do.

 

[Cavan]

I have to say that Oblivion is a particularly bad example for you to choose from to argue your point, the combat in it being that trademarked form of broken and idiotic that many have come to know and a few to love with rabid affection. I would actually count that as a point against Oblivion because the entire system feels flat and stupid and broken to use, like you're playing an FPSMMO after both you and your enemy have stopped to get drunk.

Anyway, I sorta get where you're coming from, i'd suggest grabbing frozen synapse, it does turn based in a decent way, bioware games tend to blur the line between turn based and action rpgs.

 

[Zhukov]

Turn-based combat is fine when there is actual strategy involved, when you have to deliberate over your actions.

However, it all falls apart when you're just taking tuns to attack one another.

 

[No_Remainders]

I thought it worked well in KotOR..

That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.

 

[Still Life]

Once upon a time, I played a strategy game called Steel Panther II, and I think I still have a modded version of it on my laptop. It was hex-based play and half the fun was thinking up your next move.

I still think there's plenty of room for turn-based gameplay, so long as it's fun and rewarding.

 

[BanicRhys]

Turn based games work well when there is a decent amount of strategic thinking in it. The problem with final fantasy is that there is very little to think about outside of character customisation.

Valkyria Chronicles for instance is a very immersive game.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Oblivion combat...immersive?

How is swish, swish, block ad infinitum, immersive?

OT: Personally I find the turn-based combat of Dynasty Tactics 2 to be much more fun than Oblivion. When it comes to turn-based combat it really depends on what you prefer, whether that be strategically thinking out your next move and properly preparing yourself, or to just charge in and kill everything.

Turn-based combat can be good or bad, depending on how well it is implemented.

Real-time combat can be good or bad, depending on how well it is implemented.

As for how to make it work, back to Dynasty Tactics 2, in that game you are commanding your army, and the turns are decided by morale, the more morale you have the faster your turn and everyone else is decided by how high or low their morale is.

 

[Rabish Bini]

I thought it worked well in KotOR..

That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.

But you attacked an then the other guy also attacked, or am I missing something?

Other than that, Worms is awesome (2D Worms that is)

 

[Zach of Fables]

My go-to example for RPGs is "Arcanum," and the difference between real time and turn based was huge. When playing in real time mages and other classes that casted "spells" never had much of a chance because by the time you were able to point and click to hit two spells the combat was practically over. But of course it wasn't Final Fantasy style. I thought in that way the combat worked pretty well with the story.

 

[No_Remainders]

I thought it worked well in KotOR..

That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.

But you attacked an then the other guy also attacked, or am I missing something?

Other than that, Worms is awesome (2D Worms that is)

Well, it wasn't turn-based in the traditional sense of the term.

Final Fantasy would be turn-based. KotOR isn't really, especially as it allowed you to play without using the pause mechanic.

 

[subjectseven]

Final Fantasy XIII has the best turn based combat system that I've ever experienced. The features and design keep it fast paced and strategic enough that it gives it a sense of real time combat as well. Turn based combat with real time elements. I think it's quite an excellent system, possibly the best that turn based combat can ever get.

If we swapped it around, real time combat with turn based elements? I'm not so sure that would work out as well, off the top of my head at least.