Turn the Other Cheek
You can enjoy Grand Theft Auto IV and still be a good Christian.
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You can enjoy Grand Theft Auto IV and still be a good Christian.
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Turn the Other Cheek
- Thread starter BrittonPeele
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The priest of a Church in my home town apparently enjoyed playing Driver, and who could blame him? It was an ace game (partially because the physics were absolutely hilarious)
On topic, the trouble is that many Christians are also conservative, and conservatives in general are critical of new developments, such as the rise of video games in popular entertainment. The problem for Christians is that this attitude will only hasten the decline of Christianity in the West because it put's young people, most of who play video games, off the religion.
On topic, the trouble is that many Christians are also conservative, and conservatives in general are critical of new developments, such as the rise of video games in popular entertainment. The problem for Christians is that this attitude will only hasten the decline of Christianity in the West because it put's young people, most of who play video games, off the religion.
A good article, if I do say so myself (though the thought of Tingle as a church usher gives me the heebie-jeebies).
Speaking as a Christian, I don't have a problem with secular games at all. Indeed, games closely based on Christianity and/or the Bible are almost always terrible. When it comes to finding Christian symbolism in games, it really depends on the type of game and the person playing it. The Halo games are a good example of this. The series managed to strike a good balance of providing clever Biblical references without alienating those unfamiliar with the source material. A series like Assassin's Creed however is definitely more enjoyable if you're familiar with the spiritual beliefs and motivations of people in Medieval and Renaissance times.
However, some Christians go too far when it comes to finding the "hidden meaning" in games or restricting themselves from certain games. For example, a friend of mine wasn't allowed to play Mario Party as a kid because it supposedly "encouraged gambling." His parents also wouldn't let him play Paper Mario because there were a few fortune teller NPCs. It's like they couldn't reconcile themselves with the fact that the games were set in an entirely fictional fairy tale setting that had little to no grounding in the real world whatsoever. Unfortunately such people tend to be the most vocal about such things, which results in the labeling of all Christians as close-minded.
The way I see it, your spiritual relationship with your deity of choice (assuming you believe in one) should be on a different level from dealing with secular things. If you feel comfortable enough with your faith to play Saints Row: The Third, then nobody should try to convince you otherwise.
Speaking as a Christian, I don't have a problem with secular games at all. Indeed, games closely based on Christianity and/or the Bible are almost always terrible. When it comes to finding Christian symbolism in games, it really depends on the type of game and the person playing it. The Halo games are a good example of this. The series managed to strike a good balance of providing clever Biblical references without alienating those unfamiliar with the source material. A series like Assassin's Creed however is definitely more enjoyable if you're familiar with the spiritual beliefs and motivations of people in Medieval and Renaissance times.
However, some Christians go too far when it comes to finding the "hidden meaning" in games or restricting themselves from certain games. For example, a friend of mine wasn't allowed to play Mario Party as a kid because it supposedly "encouraged gambling." His parents also wouldn't let him play Paper Mario because there were a few fortune teller NPCs. It's like they couldn't reconcile themselves with the fact that the games were set in an entirely fictional fairy tale setting that had little to no grounding in the real world whatsoever. Unfortunately such people tend to be the most vocal about such things, which results in the labeling of all Christians as close-minded.
The way I see it, your spiritual relationship with your deity of choice (assuming you believe in one) should be on a different level from dealing with secular things. If you feel comfortable enough with your faith to play Saints Row: The Third, then nobody should try to convince you otherwise.
Not sure I have anything that needs to be added. Excellent article. Membership in a church, any church, need not force you to stifle most of society (unless that is a strict tenet of the church, such as Anabaptists), unless that's your own conscious choice.
I have to believe the Almighty has a pretty expansive view of "fun", after all.
I have to believe the Almighty has a pretty expansive view of "fun", after all.
Very interesting article. I'm glad that you alerted me to the image of Link praying, it definitely puts a new spin on the character.
I couldn't agree more with what you said about the gift of imagination that God gave to humanity. As a both a Christian and a (hopefully) future English Literature student, I've always believed this to be true.
I couldn't agree more with what you said about the gift of imagination that God gave to humanity. As a both a Christian and a (hopefully) future English Literature student, I've always believed this to be true.
Well, im a Roman Catholic, not a very good one (I only started going to church again because our old priest left, and the new one has mass done in less than 40 minutes... yes, I didnt go to church because it was longer than an hour, I said im not a good Roman Catholic.)
I never feel the need to justify to myself or other people my choices in videogames, largely because "well than, go fuck yourself" is my default response to any insults to my choice in games. As I see it, I paid my dues to the church, and I prefer the worship of God as a one on one deal, not something I have to go to a special building and listen to a certified "mouth of God" to do.
I never feel the need to justify to myself or other people my choices in videogames, largely because "well than, go fuck yourself" is my default response to any insults to my choice in games. As I see it, I paid my dues to the church, and I prefer the worship of God as a one on one deal, not something I have to go to a special building and listen to a certified "mouth of God" to do.
Your overanalyzing things.
I'm a Christian, and my basic summary is that all of this stuff is fantasy and I don't think god created the world purely for misery, and escapism is perfectly okay as long as you understand fantasy as fantasy. Personally I don't even think god has a problem with material where you kill him, or have The Devil as a good guy, in doing so there is usually a clear good vs. evil message within the story, and it comes down to doing the right thing under the circumstances. Simply put I think god would kind of want you to kill him if you could, and he turned out like he is presented in some of those stories.
I'll also go so far as to say that a lot of this stuff which has religious undertones raises some interesting questions about the faith and it's interpetations. Monks and priests spend lifetimes musing over The Bible and questions of faith a LOT like these, it's just that works of fantasy form those questions into more of a story than literal contemplation.
Of course then again I'm not a deeply spiritual Christian. I don't spend a lot of time pondering it. When you get down to it while I was a Baptist, I consider myself a Christian Agnostic, which is to say I believe in the basic tenets of Christianity (God, The Devil, Angels, Demons, and Christ as our savior and conduit/path to god), but I do not believe ANY church has it right, and I do not personally believe The Bible is a direct, mystically preserved, guideline from on high, any more than I believe The Pope is infallible. I respect people who dedicate their lives to spirituality, even those I don't care for, or believe one day will have to die because of it, it's not an easy thing to do. I see The Pope as a great man and leader, but not the literal right hand of god on earth for example.
The bottom line is you can kick back watch some horror movies, play some fantasy games, goof off with some black metal, and all of that and none of it effects you being a Christian. In the end you know it's fantasy and goofing off. It doesn't change who you are, or what you believe. Heck even if you get together and have kinky sex emulating a black mass or fun, or do seances on halloween, or play around with Oujii boards, it's just play, if you still believe in god and that's who you know you follow or want to follow inside, none of that matters.
This is just what I think, in the end when I close my eyes for good, we'll know if I was right, wrong and/or forgiven.
I don't think you need to really work that hard to justify entertainment you know is entertainment.
I'm a Christian, and my basic summary is that all of this stuff is fantasy and I don't think god created the world purely for misery, and escapism is perfectly okay as long as you understand fantasy as fantasy. Personally I don't even think god has a problem with material where you kill him, or have The Devil as a good guy, in doing so there is usually a clear good vs. evil message within the story, and it comes down to doing the right thing under the circumstances. Simply put I think god would kind of want you to kill him if you could, and he turned out like he is presented in some of those stories.
I'll also go so far as to say that a lot of this stuff which has religious undertones raises some interesting questions about the faith and it's interpetations. Monks and priests spend lifetimes musing over The Bible and questions of faith a LOT like these, it's just that works of fantasy form those questions into more of a story than literal contemplation.
Of course then again I'm not a deeply spiritual Christian. I don't spend a lot of time pondering it. When you get down to it while I was a Baptist, I consider myself a Christian Agnostic, which is to say I believe in the basic tenets of Christianity (God, The Devil, Angels, Demons, and Christ as our savior and conduit/path to god), but I do not believe ANY church has it right, and I do not personally believe The Bible is a direct, mystically preserved, guideline from on high, any more than I believe The Pope is infallible. I respect people who dedicate their lives to spirituality, even those I don't care for, or believe one day will have to die because of it, it's not an easy thing to do. I see The Pope as a great man and leader, but not the literal right hand of god on earth for example.
The bottom line is you can kick back watch some horror movies, play some fantasy games, goof off with some black metal, and all of that and none of it effects you being a Christian. In the end you know it's fantasy and goofing off. It doesn't change who you are, or what you believe. Heck even if you get together and have kinky sex emulating a black mass or fun, or do seances on halloween, or play around with Oujii boards, it's just play, if you still believe in god and that's who you know you follow or want to follow inside, none of that matters.
This is just what I think, in the end when I close my eyes for good, we'll know if I was right, wrong and/or forgiven.
I don't think you need to really work that hard to justify entertainment you know is entertainment.
I don't really have much to add to this, I just wanted to say now much I enjoyed the article. It's nice to hear about other gamers who happen to be Christians as well.
Personally though, I don't have any issues playing any games at all. My faith has never been challenged by the actions I made one pixel take towards another pixel. My brain just doesn't work that way. Even the most immersive engaging video game is just digital coding. And it's a great stress reliever so dealing with my anger and other negative emotions in a digital world allows me to stay positive and peaceful out here in the real world. So for me all games, even the most violent blood and gore fests, have an air of divinity to them.
Personally though, I don't have any issues playing any games at all. My faith has never been challenged by the actions I made one pixel take towards another pixel. My brain just doesn't work that way. Even the most immersive engaging video game is just digital coding. And it's a great stress reliever so dealing with my anger and other negative emotions in a digital world allows me to stay positive and peaceful out here in the real world. So for me all games, even the most violent blood and gore fests, have an air of divinity to them.
This article really raises some interesting issues, and that's part of why I love this site.BrittonPeele said:
For one, the Christian community often has this tendency to almost thoughtlessly tie themselves to any remotely-mainstream media that makes references to Christianity. And by "Christianity" I mean "God" -- which could actually be seen as advocating Judaism or Islam, which (historically speaking) come from the same "root God." Basically, they're quick to claim territory, without considering whether that territory has any value.
A lot of times, the mainstream appeal also dilutes the actual Christian parts of the message. When VeggieTales went from videos to TV, they dropped a lot of the Christian trappings. Bible verses? Largely gone. Bible stories? Same deal, even though that was the original point of the whole series.
It's as though the goal is to create a product that people like, and then inform them that (perhaps accidentally) they just watched and enjoyed something *gasp* Christian! It's like some ninja recruitment tactic. And on the other side, you're getting guaranteed approval from those already "on the team," because there's so little in the way of Christian entertainment that no one dares speak out against any offerings.
I've got a problem with shoehorning God into entertainment to make it "fit to consume," but there's even worse hypocrisy in attacking someone's entertainment choices because they don't "glorify God." If we are to take that approach, the only right way to live is the ascetic lifestyle lived by Jesus himself. We do some things that entertain us, too, because we are human.
We just like to be able to point to someone who's just a little less "holy" than ourselves as a way of feeling higher on the spiritual totem pole. If you recall, that attitude was what the apostle Paul railed against more than anything -- believing that slavish obedience to the law actually made you better, when (as Paul held it) the purpose of the law was to reveal how impossible it is to be perfect.
As long as you aren't stealing cars, doing drugs (or prostitutes), or cheering when real people do these things, I don't expect God is warming up a lightning bolt for you while you play Grand Theft Auto.
I don't either, which is how I ended the article. If there's a game I want to play, a book I want to read or a movie I want to see, then I play/read/see it, typically without issue. Sometimes I have to put some more thought into it purely because I'm in a position where it could come up (for instance, when all the controversy about The Golden Compass film adaptation was at its peak, I was one of the only people in my church at the time who had read the books and could analyze the religious aspects of them), but usually I digest my own entertainment, and no one around notices or cares.Therumancer said:
But I've also been the administrator of a forum for Christian gamers for half a decade, and these issues do come up for a lot more people than you might think. It's easy for you or me to say, "It's fantasy, God doesn't care," and I believe that to be true. But a lot of people don't accept that idea so easily, for a lot of reasons (some of them legitimate).
As a Christian video-game enthusiast myself, I highly enjoyed this article.
I had to often battle with other Christians who would raise questions, or out-right condemn, my favourite past-time because of 'mature' content. One of the popular questions asked of me was 'Do you think Jesus would play that game?'. I always loved that questions, because I would often ask the same question about something they enjoyed (I loved it when it was a girl in a dress..."Do you think Jesus would wear that dress?"). It wasn't until I was a bit more mature in my faith did I start answering that question with: "If Jesus is seriously mad because I play this video game, then we ALL have a lot more to be worried about."
See I'm also a layman theologian. And while at first I did feel I had to justify my being able to play the next GTA, or watch movies I love like 'Kill Bill', as you delve into the Christian faith, you begin to realize that those things don't need any justification from God, only yourself.
Some people might truly be upset about a game like GTA. The answer? Don't play it.
I, on the other hand, have enjoyed that series since it first came out, and look forward to number 5 with great anticipation for Rockstar's knack for great gameplay and storytelling in a sandbox world. The content doesn't bother me, given that it's not real. It doesn't make me want to hurt people, it doesn't make me question my devotion to my faith. It's a game played for fun, and I do like having fun.
So it's encouraging to see an article on here saying, essentially, the same thing. Especially given the amount of atheists on the forums (Which I have no problem with), as well as the vocal anti-theists (Which I DO have a problem with).
So thank you and God bless, Britton Peele, for the great article!
I had to often battle with other Christians who would raise questions, or out-right condemn, my favourite past-time because of 'mature' content. One of the popular questions asked of me was 'Do you think Jesus would play that game?'. I always loved that questions, because I would often ask the same question about something they enjoyed (I loved it when it was a girl in a dress..."Do you think Jesus would wear that dress?"). It wasn't until I was a bit more mature in my faith did I start answering that question with: "If Jesus is seriously mad because I play this video game, then we ALL have a lot more to be worried about."
See I'm also a layman theologian. And while at first I did feel I had to justify my being able to play the next GTA, or watch movies I love like 'Kill Bill', as you delve into the Christian faith, you begin to realize that those things don't need any justification from God, only yourself.
Some people might truly be upset about a game like GTA. The answer? Don't play it.
I, on the other hand, have enjoyed that series since it first came out, and look forward to number 5 with great anticipation for Rockstar's knack for great gameplay and storytelling in a sandbox world. The content doesn't bother me, given that it's not real. It doesn't make me want to hurt people, it doesn't make me question my devotion to my faith. It's a game played for fun, and I do like having fun.
So it's encouraging to see an article on here saying, essentially, the same thing. Especially given the amount of atheists on the forums (Which I have no problem with), as well as the vocal anti-theists (Which I DO have a problem with).
So thank you and God bless, Britton Peele, for the great article!
That was a great and interesting read, even for a non-religious like myself. I gotta praise even the slight mention of El Shaddai.
I find it slightly hard to believe that you would have to justify playing certain games because you are a christian, where I grew up I don't think there were any christians that take their religion that seriously.
Having said that, as an ex-art student, anything can be argued about symbolism as long as you're ready to dig really very deep.
What other mediums get criticized like this? Are there any books (aside from the obvious satanic verses and other things) that you aren't allowed to read due to offensive or anti-christian themes?
I find it slightly hard to believe that you would have to justify playing certain games because you are a christian, where I grew up I don't think there were any christians that take their religion that seriously.
Having said that, as an ex-art student, anything can be argued about symbolism as long as you're ready to dig really very deep.
What other mediums get criticized like this? Are there any books (aside from the obvious satanic verses and other things) that you aren't allowed to read due to offensive or anti-christian themes?
Wait, wait...Gary Gygax was a Christian? I did not know this.
Hello more ammo to defend D&D from the asshole fundimentalists I have to keep running into.
Hello more ammo to defend D&D from the asshole fundimentalists I have to keep running into.
One of my favorite articles a while back was some fundamentalist bible beaters saying that games like Shadow Hearts and anything in the Shin Megami Tensei series should receive a harsher rating for "Satanic content." My favorite was them citing Digital Devil Saga in which you kill God...
Geeze the stained glass in church was WAY off.
Geeze the stained glass in church was WAY off.
I tend to agree with your conclusion. In the end it's like the eating food sacrificed to idols thing, if you believe it's going to get between you and God, stop doing it and if you don't think it will, then in something like this, it probably won't.
Although I have to say, I go off random slaughter a bit quicker than I used to and I'm more likely to try and pacifist run a game than earlier. I'm not sure what that's about, maybe I just involve myself in character quicker these days or maybe it's something deeper
Although I have to say, I go off random slaughter a bit quicker than I used to and I'm more likely to try and pacifist run a game than earlier. I'm not sure what that's about, maybe I just involve myself in character quicker these days or maybe it's something deeper
At least in churches etc. I've been involved with, it's not usually that you're "not allowed" to do something, it's more that you're strongly advised that doing it will damage your relationship with God and make you a worse person. It's a pastor or someone else telling you "Do you think God would really want you reading Paradise Lost? Let's look at what the Bible says..." I don't say that as a blanket bash against pastors - I actually know several pastors who do things like play video games frequently and know what they're talking about, or at the very least they educated themselves on a topic before they decide to condemn it. Those pastors earn my respect easier.Veldt Falsetto said:
Harry Potter was an obvious example of Christians being "against" something for awhile, and it still gets flak sometimes from people who, for lack of a better term, are highly ignorant (you'd think J.K. Rowling coming out and saying, "I'm a Christian" would help people notice the Christian themes in those books, but whatever). His Dark Materials is a more appropriate punching bag (though I vehemently disagree with groups who try to ban it), but I think the awareness of its issues is actually pretty low with the common church member.
Sometimes you'll have something like a Da Vinci Code pop up that gets a lot of Christian groups riled up, and sometimes people who read/watch that content become villainized. Sometimes it's something that is actually harmless (Pokemon, for example, was being attacked at one point; a controversy that spread to other popular franchises at the time like Yu-Gi-Oh). But usually (in my experience) it's more isolated incidents. A lot of times it's not even people like pastors who bring this stuff up - it's holier-than-thou church members who hear you're excited about something called "Diablo" and want to either save your soul or kick you out of the church before you corrupt the youth. Here in America at least, the fear is more often than not a fear of magic (again, like the Harry Potter controversies), while sometimes it's just a fear of anti-theism.
And you know, a lot of the stuff that influenced my article is just the typical stuff wherevideo games are today's folk devil. People seem more inclined to bash Grand Theft Auto than The Sopranos just because the general public still doesn't "get" games, and for some reason they still think games are for kids.