Turtles in RTS. Best tactic?

[DividedUnity]

I feel kind of obliged after everyone saw my other turtle thread yesterday but I've been thinking. In most RTS game I play I almost always play my style of turtle. And most of the time it works really well as long as you dont screw up. Why is it people are almost always opt for the rushing tactic? Its easily defeated as long as were not talking those little zergling things in Starcraft as they were a bit imbalanced.

Some games you cant turtle effectively like Company of Heroes. I swear to god the American infantry commander was designed to stop turtling. Anytime you try to build up a good defence, block off routes etc they just build a 105 howitzer and smash them to bits rom across the map.

The real point of this thread though is to find out what your views are on the tactic. Is being a turtle the best tactic or simply the least douchebag one. (im looking at you scorpion rush). Also if anyone has played the LOTRO Battle for middle earth what do you think about that tactic where the guy plays as men and builds streaks of walls across the map?

 

[Meggiepants]

I think turtling is a valid tactic. It can be overcome easily enough with the right counter tactics and I see nothing wrong with it. I don't know about the Company of Heroes turtling issue, because I couldn't play that RTS - the little dudes were too real to me. I couldn't send them off to be killed.

Usually I play with another person on my team, and one of us turtles and feeds resources to the attacking player. It works well with more than one player, I think. It's just a strategy, nothing wrong with it.

LOTR Battle for Middle Earth, I never played that online, only through the campaign. I don't understand why you would put streaks of wall across the map unless you were trying to trip up the PC on a comp stomp run. The PC AI is pretty stupid about this, and streaks of wall are a good way to buy yourself some time if you need it. The computer can't help but attack it.

But if it were me playing against this tactic, I would just bust through a small part of the wall and keep going. It seems like a waste of resources if you are playing against a human opponent. But maybe it works differently in LOTR Battle for Middle Earth. It's been a while since I played that one.

 

[Altorin]

In a good game, there is no uncounterable tactic, and everything you do is a valid tactic. Turtling slows the game down though and shows weakness.. I can't see how Turtling can win you a game though. You turtle. He's now surrounding your shell, looking for a crack in your armor. Once he finds it, you're dead.

Where is the "I win!" part?

 

[The Stonker]

I mix turtling and rushing.


It's called steamrolling n_n Well my kind of steamrolling.

 

[SeanTheSheep]

Well I think that a turtle's only weaknesses are speed, and getting rolled onto their back, so here's my theory:
Duct tape two turtles together face to face and attatch rockets to them.
They will be unstoppable...

Oh wait.
This thread is about the RTS strategy.

Never mind...

 

[DividedUnity]

I think turtling is a valid tactic. It can be overcome easily enough with the right counter tactics and I see nothing wrong with it. I don't know about the Company of Heroes turtling issue, because I couldn't play that RTS - the little dudes were too real to me. I couldn't send them off to be killed.

Usually I play with another person on my team, and one of us turtles and feeds resources to the attacking player. It works well with more than one player, I think. It's just a strategy, nothing wrong with it.

LOTR Battle for Middle Earth, I never played that online, only through the campaign. I don't understand why you would put streaks of wall across the map unless you were trying to trip up the PC on a comp stomp run. The PC AI is pretty stupid about this, and streaks of wall are a good way to buy yourself some time if you need it. The computer can't help but attack it.

But if it were me playing against this tactic, I would just bust through a small part of the wall and keep going. It seems like a waste of resources if you are playing against a human opponent. But maybe it works differently in LOTR Battle for Middle Earth. It's been a while since I played that one.

The wall tactic works simply by slowing down the enemys. if you build multiple layers of walls and defenses on the wall segements the even player units get trapped so they can be easily picked. off

In a good game, there is no uncounterable tactic, and everything you do is a valid tactic. Turtling slows the game down though and shows weakness.. I can't see how Turtling can win you a game though. You turtle. He's now surrounding your shell, looking for a crack in your armor. Once he finds it, you're dead.

Where is the "I win!" part?

When you turtle you dont do it enevitably. That would be stupid. You do it till your defences are sufficient then go all out attack once you know anything he sends will have hard time get anywhere near you before your units trample his base

 

[real life potato]

I never ran into turtling personally... In Starcraft all the fights were handled without turtle tactics

 

[Eliam_Dar]

Well, I don't exactly rush, but I like to be always on the move, taking key points and resources from my enemy, forcing him to figth me on my own terms, I have, however, used the turtle tactic from time to time, not a personal favorite though

 

[veloper]

turtling only works against the AI or possibly on really dull maps.

If you don't leave the base for the resources you will lose.

 

[Asehujiko]

In a good game, there is no uncounterable tactic, and everything you do is a valid tactic. Turtling slows the game down though and shows weakness.. I can't see how Turtling can win you a game though. You turtle. He's now surrounding your shell, looking for a crack in your armor. Once he finds it, you're dead.

Where is the "I win!" part?

Doing so right outside his base and denying map control/resources. At least, that's how I do it. Load up an overlord full of drones, dump them outside the enemy base, have the lord shit creep then put up a bunch of towers. If they set their rally point right on the other side of the map, they're in for a nasty surprise.

 

[ploppytheman]

I feel kind of obliged after everyone saw my other turtle thread yesterday but I've been thinking. In most RTS game I play I almost always play my style of turtle. And most of the time it works really well as long as you dont screw up. Why is it people are almost always opt for the rushing tactic? Its easily defeated as long as were not talking those little zergling things in Starcraft as they were a bit imbalanced.

Some games you cant turtle effectively like Company of Heroes. I swear to god the American infantry commander was designed to stop turtling. Anytime you try to build up a good defence, block off routes etc they just build a 105 howitzer and smash them to bits rom across the map.

The real point of this thread though is to find out what your views are on the tactic. Is being a turtle the best tactic or simply the least douchebag one. (im looking at you scorpion rush). Also if anyone has played the LOTRO Battle for middle earth what do you think about that tactic where the guy plays as men and builds streaks of walls across the map?

"zerglings are imba" /facepalm

This is how RTS should work. You have tech, economy, army, and defense. When you focus on one you lose on the others. If you sit on one base and defend your enemy takes the entire map and gains tech/army/economy. If you try to tech you lose army/defense and possibly economy. If you go army you lose the other three.

Its like you only have 100 beans and you gotta decide where to place your beans. Defense usually sucks as a human opponent can negate it easy. If you are playing vs computers then, well don't, it teaches you bad tactics that only work vs idiot machines lol.

 

[DividedUnity]

I feel kind of obliged after everyone saw my other turtle thread yesterday but I've been thinking. In most RTS game I play I almost always play my style of turtle. And most of the time it works really well as long as you dont screw up. Why is it people are almost always opt for the rushing tactic? Its easily defeated as long as were not talking those little zergling things in Starcraft as they were a bit imbalanced.

Some games you cant turtle effectively like Company of Heroes. I swear to god the American infantry commander was designed to stop turtling. Anytime you try to build up a good defence, block off routes etc they just build a 105 howitzer and smash them to bits rom across the map.

The real point of this thread though is to find out what your views are on the tactic. Is being a turtle the best tactic or simply the least douchebag one. (im looking at you scorpion rush). Also if anyone has played the LOTRO Battle for middle earth what do you think about that tactic where the guy plays as men and builds streaks of walls across the map?

"zerglings are imba" /facepalm

This is how RTS should work. You have tech, economy, army, and defense. When you focus on one you lose on the others. If you sit on one base and defend your enemy takes the entire map and gains tech/army/economy. If you try to tech you lose army/defense and possibly economy. If you go army you lose the other three.

Its like you only have 100 beans and you gotta decide where to place your beans. Defense usually sucks as a human opponent can negate it easy. If you are playing vs computers then, well don't, it teaches you bad tactics that only work vs idiot machines lol.

No where did I say turtling involved sitting in the area you started. Most times I build small defenses then capture resources then defend those then capture some more. Once Ive got enough layer up the defences. I disagree that it only works Vs computers. Many times Ive used it effectively in matches against players because theyve either tried to rush me and got destroyed or tried to steamroll me but by the time their force was great enough my defences were very strong

 

[Freshman]

best tactic is scout and respond, always. no instant win strategy, or at least there shouldn't be in an rts

 

[Iron Mal]

Turtling is fine until the enemy obtains a super weapon/super unit/method of indirect attack that can easily bypass or overpower any defence you can erect (such things are more common than you would think).

Rushing is popular because it's a quick and easy way of ending a battle (seeing as most players are probably more focused on building up their base at the beginning of the game rather than fending off early rushes).

I personally use a combination of turtling and steamrolling to win most battles, I focus on my defences until I have the biggest force I can muster, then I send it headlong into the enemy base (confident in the fact that no matter how good your defenses are, you won't be able to hold off an entire army of elite troops).

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

In my experience, most good RTS games have some way to make turtling less viable. StarCraft has the need to expand quickly, Dawn of War has the need to take and hold control points, etc. Hell, even C&C has the need to go out and protect your Harvester if you don't want to run out of cash and get steamrolled by your opponent.

And even if a game doesn't have a mechanic like that, a good early rush still beats a turtle 90% of the time.

 

[Slaanax]

I thought this was some how going to be about a TMNT in an RTS how disappointing.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Turtling is a perfectly valid tactic, and people only think of it as a douchebag move because it's pretty flawless. Not using it is like not using a superweapon in a shooter, cos it'll make it too easy.

 

[Blind Sight]

Some games you cant turtle effectively like Company of Heroes. I swear to god the American infantry commander was designed to stop turtling. Anytime you try to build up a good defence, block off routes etc they just build a 105 howitzer and smash them to bits rom across the map.

Worse still is that could be easily countered by going Royal Canadian Artillery Regiment with the British and getting supercharged artillery rounds early on, but you can't play British vs. Americans on non-mod servers (I'm pretty sure, haven't played it awhile). The only way to counter the howitzer is to go Panzer Elite and get their mobile artillery, but even then they aren't a turtle civ, more hyper-mobile instead.

GDI in Command and Conquer 3 had some pretty good turtling units, but I've got to stick with the British in Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts. Just take an area, fortify the crap out of it (mortar pits, machine gun nests, AT guns and slit trenches for infantry), build two 35 pounders in the middle, blast enemy to pieces when you see him.

 

[The Eggplant]

I happen to be a big fan of turtling and most other defensive tactics...I've always believed that superior development can overcome insta-kill strategies any day. Most of my RTS gaming sessions are necessarily very long...wars of attrition aren't won overnight.

That said, I'm also a hit-and-run fan...skirmishing, not rushing, is my solution to the "keeping the enemy occupied" strategy.