Twilight: Bella is SUPPOSED to be a flat character.

[Mechanix]

That's called shitty character development.

 

[Andrew Bohan]

You are an idiot.
You do not connect to the characters by making them terrible, you connect to them because they are well made.

For example: In the book series Wheel of Time (my favourite book series ever) every character goes through an extreme amount of development, and I genuinely care about what happens to them. Hell, Robert Jordan had an amazing ability to describe a character that you had just met, in 1 paragraph, and you felt like you had known that person for years.

Another contemporary example would be Master Chief. Little is known about his past and his character development seems to be written in assault rifle bullets and the blood of Elites, but he is by no means a flat character. Yet millions of people project themselves into his suit and fight the covenant.

Flat characters deserve no respect, no concern, and no recognition.
As far as I'm concerned, the only flat characters that have no development, are street thugs you see for a whole 5 lines in a book before they are promptly beaten and forgotten completely, or characters that don't get told about in any regard.

The fact stands, that Twilight is a waste of money, time, and consideration.

I don't think anyone's debating it's cultural or artistic significance, I think it's more down to an attempt to understand a fleeting phenomena. I mean as kids most of us loved Goosebumps, they weren't artistic, or well written by adult standards but in 10/20 years it'll probably be nothing anyways. One of the best selling books of the last couple years but remember Safety Dance sold quite a few copies and the only thing it's good for these days is being mocked.

The OT was talking about the relate-ability of Bella and how she is supposed to be a non-character, so my point was to mock them by bringing up to examples of characters that are diverse and are much more relatable.
I don't really care about the cultural significance because currently Jersey Shore is a huge phenomena, and Justin Bieber is making a 3D movie biography? if that doesn't prove "culturally significant = shit" then I have absolutely no idea what will.

I didn't mean so much that it was a case of it being significant. I mean if twilight's what the naughties are remembered for, holy fuck we wasted a decade. I meant more, the point isn't moot, but it's not necessarily defending twilight. I reckon it's more of a "this might be why" than a "don't hate D=".

 

[Torrasque]

You are an idiot.
You do not connect to the characters by making them terrible, you connect to them because they are well made.

For example: In the book series Wheel of Time (my favourite book series ever) every character goes through an extreme amount of development, and I genuinely care about what happens to them. Hell, Robert Jordan had an amazing ability to describe a character that you had just met, in 1 paragraph, and you felt like you had known that person for years.

Another contemporary example would be Master Chief. Little is known about his past and his character development seems to be written in assault rifle bullets and the blood of Elites, but he is by no means a flat character. Yet millions of people project themselves into his suit and fight the covenant.

Flat characters deserve no respect, no concern, and no recognition.
As far as I'm concerned, the only flat characters that have no development, are street thugs you see for a whole 5 lines in a book before they are promptly beaten and forgotten completely, or characters that don't get told about in any regard.

The fact stands, that Twilight is a waste of money, time, and consideration.

I don't think anyone's debating it's cultural or artistic significance, I think it's more down to an attempt to understand a fleeting phenomena. I mean as kids most of us loved Goosebumps, they weren't artistic, or well written by adult standards but in 10/20 years it'll probably be nothing anyways. One of the best selling books of the last couple years but remember Safety Dance sold quite a few copies and the only thing it's good for these days is being mocked.

The OT was talking about the relate-ability of Bella and how she is supposed to be a non-character, so my point was to mock them by bringing up to examples of characters that are diverse and are much more relatable.
I don't really care about the cultural significance because currently Jersey Shore is a huge phenomena, and Justin Bieber is making a 3D movie biography? if that doesn't prove "culturally significant = shit" then I have absolutely no idea what will.

I didn't mean so much that it was a case of it being significant. I mean if twilight's what the naughties are remembered for, holy fuck we wasted a decade. I meant more, the point isn't moot, but it's not necessarily defending twilight. I reckon it's more of a "this might be why" than a "don't hate D=".

lol, I'm sorry if it seemed that I was taking offence to what you said, it just seemed like you were confused with what I was trying to say.
And yeah? if Twilight is one of the defining movies of this era, then we seriously fucked up. Bad enough Bieber will be remembered >.>

It seems I have had my debater's hat on since wednesday morning and forgot to take it off.
My bad! =X

 

[spartan231490]

I read the books and I don't percieve bella as a flat character. I liked the books, still do in fact.

 

[Jzolr0708]

I just realized that CAPTAIN FUCKING SHEPARD would be a better Bella then Bella herself

 

[Something Amyss]

You know, that thought is neither particularly new nor profound.

You know, this comment isn't particularly helpful..................

OT: I've read the first book, I didn't like it and this theory doesn't make me like it any more

Complaining about it, however, is completely helpful. Go you.

OT: Unless you're a tween girl, I don't think you're supposed to like it.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hey, if Twilight was published that way then it would be the most awesome vampire book ever.

I thought it already was....

*flees*

 

[Snownine]

Movies are not an interactive medium like the dating sims you mentioned. Therefore this is a piss poor excuse for having such a bland character.

 

[SideburnsPuppy]

Of course. Everybody knows this.

I was watching the Twilight movie today in French class, and know what's a fun game to play? Whenever anybody says the word "vampire," replace it in your mind with "rapist" and replace "blood" with "asshole."

"Bella! I want you so badly...I want to be with you...but I can't! I'm a rapist! A monster! There will always be a horrible, animalistic part of me that lusts for your asshole, and will do anything to get it!"

 

[Sorafrosty]

Then how about I publish book consisting of nothing but blank pages?

Then the audience can project as much as they want... It's genius!

I'd buy it. ^^

OT: Yes, but the problem of the fact is, that she WROTE IT ALL WRONG!
If you REALLY wanted the person (let's cut the crap...) girl reading to be the main protagonist, you should make it to an action-novel where there's more than one way to end the story, more than at least 1 path to choose, since all girls won't always want the vampire to marry them.

Sadly, the book contains no such thing. So it fails. She wrote it ALL wrong. Good job, you newbie. Better luck writing next time.

That reminds me of those old time machine books my sister used to read to me when I was a kid... Wonder how these would fit with Twilight, though?

OT: Personally, I find her very boring, flat and bland. She is quite generic in her reactions... to absolutely everything.

 

[BonsaiK]

I heard an interesting theory regarding Twilight and the character of Bella Swan the other day.

The reason she's such a bland, uninteresting, burlap sack of a character is because the target audience is intended to project themselves into her shoes. If she were a REAL character (i.e., someone with a personality and other defining traits), she would just be some dumb ***** getting in-between the reader and Edward Cullen (or Jacob, if you're into that sort of thing). Probably also why the Twilight novels are written as a first-person narrative.

This rings true for me, because I'm already aware of another type of entertainment that does this: Japanese dating sim games. In these types of games, where the player is intended to project themselves into the role of the main character and decide which of the lovely ladies they'd like to woo, the character is frequently not even given a face, let alone a personality.

Discuss.

This is correct. It's the same reason why Gordon Freeman doesn't talk.

Not a criticism, more a sign of an author who knows how to reach her target audience.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

Well yes, that's true. But what's Edward's excuse? Or Jacob's? Or any of the other bland, flat, and boring characters in the series?

Besides, a good writer can make a reader sympathize with any character no matter how unrelatable they are.

 

[CheesusCrust]

 

[w-Jinksy]

i dont buy that bs, it gives meyer too much credit.

she cant write for fuck and its a miracle that shit storm of a book was even made into a movie.

there are so many other books that would make excellent movies, such as the song of ice and fire series, but no we get this shite.

While I agree with your love for GRRM's masterpiece series, I disagree on the fact that it would make a good movie. Those books contain so many simultaneous subplots that much would have to be cut out in order to make the movie of an acceptable length. I think they went the proper route with the HBO TV series. IMO, it gives them a much better opportunity to examine the depth of the series in a way that I doubt a movie/movie series could.

OT: *insert obligatory Twilight hate statement here, as well as snarky comment about how all Twitards should be forced to watch the entire Hellsing Ultimate series then reevaluate their perspective on vampires.*

yeah i suppose it would be hard to fit it in and they'd probably have to go and split into parts like their doing with the hobbit.

also wait a second there's a tv series? when the fuck did that happen? though its on HBO so wouldn't have heard anything of it being as i'm in the UK and HBO is an American channel

 

[Durgiun]

OR, and this is the more likely scenario, Meyer was just trying to cover her poor writing skills by bullshitting her way out. Sounds a hell of a lot more convincing to me.

I was going to say exactly this, verbatim, even down to the capitalized "OR..." In other words, QFT

Forgive my ignorance, but what does QFT stand for?

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Well duh. You'd think that was obvious from how well it worked, with thousands of screaming bimbos wetting themselves with lust over "their" beloved Edward because of how their personality-deficient female lead isn't enough of a character to threaten their personal fantasies. This doesn't excuse the fact that this is a horrible way to write a character and the Twilight books suck IMMENSE amounts of balls.

 

[MajorDooshbag]

I don't want to be buzzkill (to which Yatzhee would respond "Yes, you do") but maybe you guys are reading way too much into what is essentially a trashy romance novel (which is what most Japanese dating sims try to be) with a crapload of angst and the author wrote it that way because she knew it would sell a crapload of copies and make her a crapload of money.

On the other hand you guys are bashing a really awful book with complicated analysis, like using a nuke to swat a fly, and that's fun enough to justify itself.

 

[k-ossuburb]

Oh, I read this as "Bella was supposed to be a FAT character." Which was the only reason I clicked on it in the first place. It would make things a little more interesting since nothing about Bella makes her worthwhile as a character anyway, which was your point.

However my theory about it is that the only reason she's a flat character is because Steph Meyer wrote a crappy Mary Sue story and her religion prevented her from putting any real imagination into the piece because because the superseding morals of her religion made the character severely outdated.

 

[DevilSShadoW]

I came to this thread expecting some inflammatory comments regarding twi... bah, I won't say its name. Please don't disappoint me.

 

[KnowYourOnion]

You know, that thought is neither particularly new nor profound.

You know, this comment isn't particularly helpful..................

OT: I've read the first book, I didn't like it and this theory doesn't make me like it any more

Complaining about it, however, is completely helpful. Go you.

OT: Unless you're a tween girl, I don't think you're supposed to like it.

Not complaining, just pointing out my good man

OT: I wanted to see what it is was like rather than just have to rely on hearsay