Two gay men kicked out of a pub for kissing in public

[Eldarion]

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

They don't have to be government owned. The supreme court ruled that places like bars and theaters are public places for anti discrimination laws, among other things. Like I said, having a problem with guys kissing is your problem not anyone else's so we should not have to deal with it.

 

[Kurokasumi]

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

See, the problem with your argument, is it's not really socially acceptable. A wide audience would agree.
Now, the majority of the population doesnt want to see that, and its the bartenders choice to kick them out. There are gay bars for that sort of thing. and especially doing it in a bar. If someone who disliked homosexuality got drunk and decided to rough up the gay guys because he didn't like it, then the two gay men would have more to complain about than just getting kicked out of a bar.

 

[Eldarion]

I didn't say I wasn't making assumptions, I'm just making them based on the fact that we have instead of what could be true. You could assume anything you want based on nothing at all and warp the situation any way you please, it just makes more sense to use what information does exist as a basis for discussion.

We have no facts. We have a claim that they were unjustly ejected fro ma pub by its owner for making out. Yes we should use what we have for a discussion but when we treat un proven claims as fact we go places shouldn't. Such as claiming a pub owner in the middle of the gay district a homophobe(i still cannot get enough of that thought). Benefit of the doubt needs to be kept as we do not know his side and it is unfair to assume something is so based on the unfounded claims of one person/group of persons. If we want equality beyond discussion our discussions need equality in that we do not immediately take the word of the person that spoke first as true, that we do not treat someone special due to a minority status, and that we keep a level head. That said if this turns out to be a fabrication they are soooooooooooooooooooooo getting a law suit. And if they are telling the truth i hope the owner gets whats coming to her.

but lets remain fair, treat the story as a claim, wait until we learn the owners story, and then we can let loose the hounds of war.

Back to earlier. How am i the only one that finds the thought of a homophobe(or man uncomfortable around gay men due to his sexual orientation) owning a pub in the middle of a large cities gay district; a completely asinine idea?

When the other side has a story I'll discuss the new information, the only way the conversation can go places it should not is when we assume things just because it supports whatever argument people want even if the assumptions are unfounded. As of right now, we have the information we have. If it changes THEN we can discuss the new situation.

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

See, the problem with your argument, is it's not really socially acceptable. I wide audience would agree.
Now, the majority of the population doesnt want to see that, and its the bartenders choice to kick them out. There are gay bars for that sort of thing. and especially doing it in a bar. If someone who disliked homosexuality got drunk and decided to rough up the gay guys because he didn't like it, then the two gay men would have more to complain about than just getting kicked out of a bar.

A public place is a public place and discrimination is wrong and illegal. Strait people are allowed in gay bars and gay people are allowed in normal bars because NO ONE is allowed to discriminate.

You want some place you can go where you don't have to deal with the "icky gay people" you can stay at home. Out in the real world you have to deal with everyone.

 

[Hatchet90]

At least someone has the balls to state when something is immoral and wrong.

 

[Baneat]

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

They don't have to be government owned. The supreme court ruled that places like bars and theaters are public places for anti discrimination laws, among other things. Like I said, having a problem with guys kissing is your problem not anyone else's so we should not have to deal with it.

Not discussing the technical-leagal aspect, I'm pointing out the moral worth in the actions. The government forcing people to play with the weird kid is something you do in a primary school. Imagine they said it's now illegal to kick those hate-spewing nazis out of your bar, even if they're swearing at everyone. It's discrimination against nazis they say, so you aren't allowed to do it. Why not just extend that to your house, you can only kick people out of your home if they say you can?

There are more important things than wanting to be grudgingly accepted into places that will not accept you by their own terms.

 

[Eldarion]

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

They don't have to be government owned. The supreme court ruled that places like bars and theaters are public places for anti discrimination laws, among other things. Like I said, having a problem with guys kissing is your problem not anyone else's so we should not have to deal with it.

Not discussing the technical-leagal aspect, I'm pointing out the moral worth in the actions. The government forcing people to play with the weird kid is something you do in a primary school. Imagine they said it's now illegal to kick those hate-spewing nazis out of your bar, even if they're swearing at everyone. It's discrimination against nazis they say, so you aren't allowed to do it. Why not just extend that to your house, you can only kick people out of your home if they say you can?

There are more important things than wanting to be grudgingly accepted into places that will not accept you by their own terms.

So now gay people are the "wierd kid". If your gonna be a bigoted, own it don't pussyfoot around.

Bars are public space, homes are not. Yhea it would be illegal to kick a bunch of neo nazis our of your bar, because its wrong to discriminate against anyone. They have to something illegally disruptive to be removed.

In the real world you have to deal with all kinds of people, you don't get to make "No gays allowed clubs". You know what would solve your problem? (Again, your problem isn't something I should have to deal with.) You people could grow up and accept that people are different. You could not stare at a kissing couple, you could ignore it. The only thing stopping you from enjoying yourself if a couple of guys are kissing is that you cannot act like a socialy responsible adult. Your inability to accept people for what they are should not stop me from doing what I want in a public place. That goes for you too, Baneat.

 

[Baneat]

ITT: People who think that promoting liberty within one's own domain => promoting homophobia

 

[Baneat]

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

They don't have to be government owned. The supreme court ruled that places like bars and theaters are public places for anti discrimination laws, among other things. Like I said, having a problem with guys kissing is your problem not anyone else's so we should not have to deal with it.

Not discussing the technical-leagal aspect, I'm pointing out the moral worth in the actions. The government forcing people to play with the weird kid is something you do in a primary school. Imagine they said it's now illegal to kick those hate-spewing nazis out of your bar, even if they're swearing at everyone. It's discrimination against nazis they say, so you aren't allowed to do it. Why not just extend that to your house, you can only kick people out of your home if they say you can?

There are more important things than wanting to be grudgingly accepted into places that will not accept you by their own terms.

So now gay people are the "wierd kid". If your gonna be a bigoted, own it don't pussyfoot around.

Bars are public space, homes are not. Yhea it would be illegal to kick a bunch of neo nazis our of your bar, because its wrong to discriminate against anyone. They have to something illegally disruptive to be removed.

In the real world you have to deal with all kinds of people, you don't get to make "No gays allowed clubs". You know what would solve your problem? (Again, your problem isn't something I should have to deal with.) You people could grow up and accept that people are different. You could not stare at a kissing couple, you could ignore it. The only thing stopping you from enjoying yourself if a couple of guys are kissing is that you cannot act like a socialy responsible adult.

Wow, you fail in arguments. Who the fuck decides that I can't make a no-gay club or no-straight club?

I'll take the negative personal consequences of getting kicked out of a homophobe's bar when the alternative is textbook fascism.

Bars are not public places! someone owns it, and grants people access to his domain.

 

[Eldarion]

ITT: People who think that promoting liberty within one's own domain => promoting homophobia

Its not liberty in ons own domain in a public place. Like I said, if you don't want to deal with people stay at home where children belong.

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

They don't have to be government owned. The supreme court ruled that places like bars and theaters are public places for anti discrimination laws, among other things. Like I said, having a problem with guys kissing is your problem not anyone else's so we should not have to deal with it.

Not discussing the technical-leagal aspect, I'm pointing out the moral worth in the actions. The government forcing people to play with the weird kid is something you do in a primary school. Imagine they said it's now illegal to kick those hate-spewing nazis out of your bar, even if they're swearing at everyone. It's discrimination against nazis they say, so you aren't allowed to do it. Why not just extend that to your house, you can only kick people out of your home if they say you can?

There are more important things than wanting to be grudgingly accepted into places that will not accept you by their own terms.

So now gay people are the "wierd kid". If your gonna be a bigoted, own it don't pussyfoot around.

Bars are public space, homes are not. Yhea it would be illegal to kick a bunch of neo nazis our of your bar, because its wrong to discriminate against anyone. They have to something illegally disruptive to be removed.

In the real world you have to deal with all kinds of people, you don't get to make "No gays allowed clubs". You know what would solve your problem? (Again, your problem isn't something I should have to deal with.) You people could grow up and accept that people are different. You could not stare at a kissing couple, you could ignore it. The only thing stopping you from enjoying yourself if a couple of guys are kissing is that you cannot act like a socialy responsible adult.

Wow, you fail in arguments, I'm sorry to say. I'm not straight. Who the fuck decides that I can't make a no-gay club or no-straight club?

I'll take the negative personal consequences of getting kicked out of a homophobe's bar when the alternative is textbook fascism.

Asking people to behave in an adult manner=/Fascism. Then again, I would guess you still have some growing up to do. "LOL you fail at arguments" was real mature and it avoided responding to the actual post.

You should not open a public place if you are not adult enough to deal with people.

 

[Baneat]

ITT: People who think that promoting liberty within one's own domain => promoting homophobia

Its not liberty in ons own domain in a public place. Like I said, if you don't want to deal with people stay at home where children belong.

personally I think two men making out is disgusting, and the bar owner was right for kicking them out, but that's just my opinion

Indeed. I'm going to save typing out an opinion and agree with yours. Not something I want to see when I'm trying to have a drink with my friends.

I might not want to see you or your friends, but if you want to go out to a public place you have to deal with people doing anything they want in public space. Especially if its legally permissible behavior. This was.

Strait people kissing in public is perfectly fine, but gay people are "gross" thats nice.

Well I would have to be honest when straight up kicking them out might have been a little harsh, telling them to cut it out, give them a warning or tell them to take it somewhere else would have been a little more reasonable.

You can't order 2 people to stop doing something that is acceptable in public just because you don't like it. Having a problem with gay people kissing is YOUR problem, not theirs or mine. Get over it.

Public? I know they're called public houses, but where are these government-owned bars you speak of?

They don't have to be government owned. The supreme court ruled that places like bars and theaters are public places for anti discrimination laws, among other things. Like I said, having a problem with guys kissing is your problem not anyone else's so we should not have to deal with it.

Not discussing the technical-leagal aspect, I'm pointing out the moral worth in the actions. The government forcing people to play with the weird kid is something you do in a primary school. Imagine they said it's now illegal to kick those hate-spewing nazis out of your bar, even if they're swearing at everyone. It's discrimination against nazis they say, so you aren't allowed to do it. Why not just extend that to your house, you can only kick people out of your home if they say you can?

There are more important things than wanting to be grudgingly accepted into places that will not accept you by their own terms.

So now gay people are the "wierd kid". If your gonna be a bigoted, own it don't pussyfoot around.

Bars are public space, homes are not. Yhea it would be illegal to kick a bunch of neo nazis our of your bar, because its wrong to discriminate against anyone. They have to something illegally disruptive to be removed.

In the real world you have to deal with all kinds of people, you don't get to make "No gays allowed clubs". You know what would solve your problem? (Again, your problem isn't something I should have to deal with.) You people could grow up and accept that people are different. You could not stare at a kissing couple, you could ignore it. The only thing stopping you from enjoying yourself if a couple of guys are kissing is that you cannot act like a socialy responsible adult.

Wow, you fail in arguments, I'm sorry to say. I'm not straight. Who the fuck decides that I can't make a no-gay club or no-straight club?

I'll take the negative personal consequences of getting kicked out of a homophobe's bar when the alternative is textbook fascism.

Asking people to behave in an adult manner=/Fascism. Then again, I would guess you still have some growing up to do. "LOL you fail at arguments" was real mature and it avoided responding to the actual post.

Not asking. Forcing. And I've included the response, you just deliberately didn't read it.

You did NOT open a public place, you grant access to a private establishment. It's only public in the sense that it's got assorted members of the public in it, and generally speaking most people can go in and out of it. It is not public, in the sense that it's paid for by taxation or is owned by nobody. Out in the street, of course none of these apply, gay people pay taxes and collectively own the streets as much as any other has a right to do so. They don't pay for the bar, they don't pay for any of it.

Ultimately, you think a bar belongs to the people, and I think it belongs to the person that.. you know, bought it, and all you've done is say I can't be mature enough.

Forcing people to act in the way you think is morally acceptable => fascism.

 

[Eldarion]

Not asking. Forcing. And I've included the response, you just deliberately didn't read it.

Racism/sexixm/bigotry should be condemned not protected. I did respond to that part of you post, try reading yourself.

 

[snow]

-snip-

I believe you're reading waaay to much into my off topic rant. Really isn't meant to be connected to anything, hence why, and I'll repeat for a third time now, that I fell off topic. The only thing I don't like about this discussion is the original vibe that I got behind your true intentions in responding to me.

You've repetitively misunderstood my original post, and while we could have had a good discussion on the matter, and I could have explained to you in a much more simple way of what I was getting at, and I could have potentially learned a thing or two from you and why you feel otherwise, I will say that this will not happen due to your approach.

You're looking to inform, and I would have been accepting of that if there was anything I said that was surely wrong, but the way you approach it shows that you're looking to do more than just that, and I will not have it.

You feel it's more logical to discuss only what is written, I feel it's important to dive deeper. I've noticed as I scrolled up that some one pointed out just how one sided that story really is, and I agree with that fully. It's why I choose not to accept the story, and why I said it's never smart to read news without asking questions. If you want to discuss what we've learned from the story and just that. Then yes, I agree, it sounds like the owner of the pub is going to be in a world of hurt, but that's the problem, the story is written to make it sound that way.

But regardless, feel free to reply if you want, but know that I will not respond. The more we discuss, the more I see what you're really trying to do, and quite frankly I'm in no mood for it.

 

[Baneat]

Not asking. Forcing. And I've included the response, you just deliberately didn't read it.

Racism/sexixm/bigotry should be condemned not protected. I did respond to that part of you post, try reading yourself.

So liberty only applies if you allow/agree with it? I don't think a racist is right in his actions, but in his own restaurant and house and whatever else he owns, he can be the grand canary of the KKK and I can't and won't stop it.

There's a contradiction in thinking in promoting people to choose what they want to do, and forcing people against what you think they shouldn't, no matter how nice, or right your own opinions are to you and me. I'm not a racist, bigot or sexist, and you've straw-manned me with it.

Oh, by the way, if this doesn't sway you, consider it a total impasse. we've gone down to fundamental level beliefs, and unless you have some serious eye-opening philosophy no normative ethicist has come up with, there's nothing left here.

 

[Kakashi on crack]

If the bartender had asked them to stop, I might be slightly more sympathetic, but as it stands I'm kinda annoyed by this. I don't want to see anyone make out for half a minute on end in public, and I understand asking them to stop for something like that, but to just flat out kick them out is just rude. (whether they be straight, gay, bisexual, etc.)

I have mixed feelings about this whole debate since I don't know enough facts to come up with an answer I'm 100% comfortable with.

 

[Eldarion]

Not asking. Forcing. And I've included the response, you just deliberately didn't read it.

Racism/sexixm/bigotry should be condemned not protected. I did respond to that part of you post, try reading yourself.

So liberty only applies if you allow/agree with it? I don't think a racist is right in his actions, but in his own restaurant and house and whatever else he owns, he can be the grand canary of the KKK and I can't and won't stop it.

Are you even reading? The KKK can eat at a public bar all they want, they can even preach cause we let priests get away with it. Gay people can also use the same bar. Everyone is free to use public places, not just some people. A business has to cater to everybody.

That isn't selective liberty, its the opposite.

-snip-

I believe you're reading waaay to much into my off topic rant. Really isn't meant to be connected to anything, hence why, and I'll repeat for a third time now, that I fell off topic. The only thing I don't like about this discussion is the original vibe that I got behind your true intentions in responding to me.

You've repetitively misunderstood my original post, and while we could have had a good discussion on the matter, and I could have explained to you in a much more simple way of what I was getting at, and I could have potentially learned a thing or two from you and why you feel otherwise, I will say that this will not happen due to your approach.

You're looking to inform, and I would have been accepting of that if there was anything I said that was surely wrong, but the way you approach it shows that you're looking to do more than just that, and I will not have it.

You feel it's more logical to discuss only what is written, I feel it's important to dive deeper. I've noticed as I scrolled up that some one pointed out just how one sided that story really is, and I agree with that fully. It's why I choose not to accept the story, and why I said it's never smart to read news without asking questions. If you want to discuss what we've learned from the story and just that. Then yes, I agree, it sounds like the owner of the pub is going to be in a world of hurt, but that's the problem, the story is written to make it sound that way.

But regardless, feel free to reply if you want, but know that I will not respond. The more we discuss, the more I see what you're really trying to do, and quite frankly I'm in no mood for it.

Its more logical to not pull assumptions out of nowhere. The story could be written to sound that way, but since we have no way of knowing anything else is making stuff up and relying on "If".