Err, you're the one doing that. I'm in favor of actual freedom. That includes the freedom to discriminate.Hafrael said:
You shouldn't be able to force your personal sense of morality on others.
Two gay men kicked out of a pub for kissing in public
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You shouldn't be able to force your personal sense of morality on others.
I believe that if YOU own a property and provide a service, you have FULL CONTROL over what goes on in that property. Someone comes in wearing a tophat and shoes? You have the right to kick them out. There is no reason I should HAVE to serve you.
No, we aren't. I think you're confused. Let me try to make it simple for you.Hafrael said:
You = in favor of forcing your warped sense of morality on other people, and forcing owners of private property and businesses to do what YOU think they should do
Me = in favor of letting people do what they want to do with their property, because it's THEIR property and/or business, not mine
Better?
I was reading a back a few pages and it seems like Baneat was having the exact same argument with someone else. Amazing.AaronDemoncia said:
I don't understand why the people he was talking to just couldn't get it.
Right. In the UK, you can refuse to serve or allow access for any reason. If they are on the property at the time, then they are trespassing.Hafrael said:
How do you think we can chuck potential thieves out?
people like to think that just because basic human rights exist that their oddly self-entitled 'superior' code of ethics is mandated law. yeah descrimination is bad, but if its MY shit i can do what i like with it, toss off. but you know. lets descriminate on something as equally tangable as sexual orientation, ooooooh MORALS and PERSONAL BELEIFS are good! XD
Once again for the hard of thinking in this thread - The law in the UK is quite specific. If you decide to throw people out for kissing, you had better apply the same standard to everyone. If you DON'T, if you only throw out the gay couples but not the straight ones, you have broken the law and you WILL get your fucking face legally stamped on.
If you don't want to serve gays or asian people or Hindus then CLOSE your business and piss right off. When the owner/operator of a business decides to start selling goods and services then they have to obey ALL of the laws, not just the ones that they agree with. So you do have the right to be a racist prick, but you don't have the right to open and business and run it as a racist prick. Personal choice. You can't ignore the health and safety laws, you can't ignore the licensing laws and you cannot ignore the laws that stop discrimination.
Once upon a time, in the UK (to our shame) people would put up signs in B & Bs and pubs that said "no blacks, no Irish". That is not allowed. And they are not allowed to say "no gays".
If the pub in question ends up in court, they might have to prove that they would treat all couples the same. A notion that makes me laugh as I very much doubt that the imaginary straight couples they have kicked out would not come running to help them.
The only thing that matters is that the standard is the same for everyone. A sign saying you have a right to refuse service to whoever you want is fucking worthless if the whoevers are always people of different skin colours, religions or sexual orientations. So take your silly fucking sign and shove it where the sun does not shine.
If you don't want to serve gays or asian people or Hindus then CLOSE your business and piss right off. When the owner/operator of a business decides to start selling goods and services then they have to obey ALL of the laws, not just the ones that they agree with. So you do have the right to be a racist prick, but you don't have the right to open and business and run it as a racist prick. Personal choice. You can't ignore the health and safety laws, you can't ignore the licensing laws and you cannot ignore the laws that stop discrimination.
Once upon a time, in the UK (to our shame) people would put up signs in B & Bs and pubs that said "no blacks, no Irish". That is not allowed. And they are not allowed to say "no gays".
If the pub in question ends up in court, they might have to prove that they would treat all couples the same. A notion that makes me laugh as I very much doubt that the imaginary straight couples they have kicked out would not come running to help them.
The only thing that matters is that the standard is the same for everyone. A sign saying you have a right to refuse service to whoever you want is fucking worthless if the whoevers are always people of different skin colours, religions or sexual orientations. So take your silly fucking sign and shove it where the sun does not shine.
I'm wondering where the civil libertarian's would have been if it was a man and a young boy kissing. Or how many people realise the pub is in London,England (it even says in the link). Or how many people have read the staff's side to the story which states that the couple had already been asked to stop many times.
I also wonder why certain organisations deem anything that happens to gay people homophobia or homophilia.
I know there's a lot of gay people who are sick to death of people claiming victories "in their name".
I also wonder why certain organisations deem anything that happens to gay people homophobia or homophilia.
I know there's a lot of gay people who are sick to death of people claiming victories "in their name".
I'm back, briefly, to just point out that some people are questioning the legality of the barman's actions, some are fallaciously using that to justify the other debate, which is if it's morally right to allow the barman to act in such a manner.Valksy said:
The two are horribly, horribly confused in this thread, and clarity is really needed if you're gonna get any further with it. I'd say it was illegal for the barman to act like that, I don't like what the barman did, but I'd defend what should be his right to act like a prick tooth and nail.
Just make sure when you address someone's point that you take care to stick to one argument or the other, they do not mix at all.
Wrong. Equality Act doesn't work unless the reason is about equality. I can't put up a sign saying "No gays", but I can kick a gay guy out in the same way I kick a straight guy out.Valksy said:
Otherwise, you've just given Gay people a right to drink alcohol in the pub after 2 in the morning.
If they can prove that other couples were kissing and ONLY they were chucked out, then the Equality Act works. Otherwise, they're just pandering for media attention.
Just to check. Would you be happy if he threw out someone who was black because he didn't like black people and didn't want them in his pub? Would you defend his right to do so?Baneat said:
I'm just wondering, so I know whether to take you seriously or not.