UK Devs: Piracy Is a Problem, Doesn't Threaten Survival

[shadowbird]

Funny thing it says on almost every game I own DO NOT MAKE ILLEGAL COPIES OF THIS DISC.

And yet you implied that it is OK to make a copy for a friend or two.

And you are still trying to justify it so I fail to see your whole 20 bucks thing. And if it isn't illegal why did the MW2 pirate get busted?

I asked you to point out where and what exactly am I justifying. You fail. I have never said it's legal, I have never, not once even implied that it is OK. I'm just pointing out some of the lies surrounding the issue, but you instantly translate that to supporting piracy.

Or that mom who was busted for sharing music?

Because she never even showed up for the court. When you enter a legal battle and then don't show up, the other side wins by default, they don't even have to present any evidence or any case at all.

The problem isn't that it is illegal the problem is catching them.

Damn, you really are ignorant. TENS OF THOUSANDS of "pirates" have been caught by the music and movie publishers (i.e., received notices of copyright infringement and warnings of lawsuit in their mailbox), but almost none of them have been taken to court, because anyone who fights back has always won. There's no problem catching them, the courtroom is where it all falls apart for the publishers exactly because personal copyright infringement is nowhere near stealing in any legal sense. Only people like torrent tracker admins and similar can get sentences if the prosecution convinces the court that they are knowingly facilitating copyright infringement on a large scale and making money from it.

Oh and pirates are thieves. Catch me if you can.

And people with "squid" in their nicknames are child rapists. You know, as long as we're throwing around baseless personal insults.

 

[squid5580]

Funny thing it says on almost every game I own DO NOT MAKE ILLEGAL COPIES OF THIS DISC.

And yet you implied that it is OK to make a copy for a friend or two.

And you are still trying to justify it so I fail to see your whole 20 bucks thing. And if it isn't illegal why did the MW2 pirate get busted?

I asked you to point out where and what exactly am I justifying. You fail. I have never said it's legal, I have never, not once even implied that it is OK. I'm just pointing out some of the lies surrounding the issue, but you instantly translate that to supporting piracy.

Or that mom who was busted for sharing music?

Because she never even showed up for the court. When you enter a legal battle and then don't show up, the other side wins by default, they don't even have to present any evidence or any case at all.

The problem isn't that it is illegal the problem is catching them.

Damn, you really are ignorant. TENS OF THOUSANDS of "pirates" have been caught by the music and movie publishers (i.e., received notices of copyright infringement and warnings of lawsuit in their mailbox), but almost none of them have been taken to court, because anyone who fights back has always won. There's no problem catching them, the courtroom is where it all falls apart for the publishers exactly because personal copyright infringement is nowhere near stealing in any legal sense. Only people like torrent tracker admins and similar can get sentences if the prosecution convinces the court that they are knowingly facilitating copyright infringement on a large scale and making money from it.

Oh and pirates are thieves. Catch me if you can.

And people with "squid" in their nicknames are child rapists. You know, as long as we're throwing around baseless personal insults.

How exactly is that a "baseless personal insult"? If you take something that another person relies on to feed thier families without oh I dunno paying for it what exactly do you call it? Does it have to be something physical to actually be called theft? Is stealing intellectual property not still stealing? And I thought you didn't pirate so why are you so offended by that? I could understand if you wanted to sue me for calling you a thief instead of a pirate although first you would have to prove to the court you are a pirate so you could then prove slander. Afterall I said pirates were thieves. So if I am somehow ruining your or any pirates reputation by calling you/them thieves I would be more than happy to stand in front of a judge and face said charges.

 

[shadowbird]

How exactly is that a "baseless personal insult"?

Because it has absolutely no objective basis.

If you take something that another person relies on to feed thier families without oh I dunno paying for it what exactly do you call it?

That's stealing, though I don't see how that relates to making a copy of something you have already paid for, are going to pay for, or are going to throw the copy out within a few hours.

Does it have to be something physical to actually be called theft?

No, but the original owner has to lose it. If you copy someone's code and then delete it on his computer, that's stealing. If you copy the code without permission, that's a violation of his author's rights but it doesn't actually take anything away from him.

Is stealing intellectual property not still stealing?

Yes, it is, but only as long as the original owner of the property loses it as a result.

And I thought you didn't pirate so why are you so offended by that?

I do pirate, but I don't steal. I download copies of games, and every copy that I don't throw out within 5 hours of playing I purchase. I have a library of around 100 legal games if you count all my consoles and PC (and most of it is on the PC), and out of those 100 exactly 3 I have ever even considered buying if I didn't have the chance to try it out first illegally. Without p2p networks I would still be playing emulated NES games and not even dreaming about consoles or newer games. I have personally fed at least one game developer's/publishers family at least twice with the games & consoles I have bought, and I have done so entirely thanks to piracy. So basically you are calling me a thief because of the way that I pay for the stuff I like, enjoy and use.

I could understand if you wanted to sue me for calling you a thief instead of a pirate although first you would have to prove to the court you are a pirate so you could then prove slander.

Actually no, I wouldn't have to prove anything. You're the one slandering me, so you would have to prove that I am a thief and any piracy I have or haven't done wouldn't even come up. Calling someone a thief because he's a pirate is similar to calling someone a thief because you think he's Spanish. He wouldn't have to prove or disprove that he Spanish, because it has nothing to do with the accusation.

 

[squid5580]

How exactly is that a "baseless personal insult"?

Because it has absolutely no objective basis.

If you take something that another person relies on to feed thier families without oh I dunno paying for it what exactly do you call it?

That's stealing, though I don't see how that relates to making a copy of something you have already paid for, are going to pay for, or are going to throw the copy out within a few hours.

Does it have to be something physical to actually be called theft?

No, but the original owner has to lose it. If you copy someone's code and then delete it on his computer, that's stealing. If you copy the code without permission, that's a violation of his author's rights but it doesn't actually take anything away from him.

Is stealing intellectual property not still stealing?

Yes, it is, but only as long as the original owner of the property loses it as a result.

And I thought you didn't pirate so why are you so offended by that?

I do pirate, but I don't steal. I download copies of games, and every copy that I don't throw out within 5 hours of playing I purchase. I have a library of around 100 legal games if you count all my consoles and PC (and most of it is on the PC), and out of those 100 exactly 3 I have ever even considered buying if I didn't have the chance to try it out first illegally. Without p2p networks I would still be playing emulated NES games and not even dreaming about consoles or newer games. I have personally fed at least one game developer's/publishers family at least twice with the games & consoles I have bought, and I have done so entirely thanks to piracy. So basically you are calling me a thief because of the way that I pay for the stuff I like, enjoy and use.

I could understand if you wanted to sue me for calling you a thief instead of a pirate although first you would have to prove to the court you are a pirate so you could then prove slander.

Actually no, I wouldn't have to prove anything. You're the one slandering me, so you would have to prove that I am a thief and any piracy I have or haven't done wouldn't even come up. Calling someone a thief because he's a pirate is similar to calling someone a thief because you think he's Spanish. He wouldn't have to prove or disprove that he Spanish, because it has nothing to do with the accusation.

If I had said shadowbird is a thief then you would have nothing to prove. Since that is not what I said you would first have to prove you are a pirate first. Without that you have no case. Not complicated. Or have you forgotten innocent until proven guilty? You have to prove my guilt. I don't have to prove my innocence.

 

[mattman106]

Anything they can do to identify a user, without their prior consent, and using that to punish them is in essence entrapment, and thus cannot be used in a court of law. It's why police can't, for example, run a fake child porn site and prosecute everyone who subscribes.

As far as I know what you say is incorrect. The Police could run a fake child porn site and catch people and it not count as entrapment because the paedophile would of had a choice of to go online to look for child porn. As far as I know entrapment is when you are essentailly coerced or forced into breaking the law.

 

[shadowbird]

If I had said shadowbird is a thief then you would have nothing to prove. Since that is not what I said you would first have to prove you are a pirate first. Without that you have no case. Not complicated. Or have you forgotten innocent until proven guilty? You have to prove my guilt. I don't have to prove my innocence.

Yes, of course. Ignore the entire central discussion and just concentrate on the most trivial, nonsensical tangent in the footnote. I'll have to take that as admitting that I'm right.

And you are right about this one, I would have to admit I'm a pirate. However, there isn't a single law prohibiting downloading of copyrighted materials - it's perfectly legal in every way (if it wasn't, the companies would be spending the thousands in courtrooms, not on fraudulent advertisements). As long as I use, say, a modified p2p client that only downloads, but never uploads, I am a pirate, yet I haven't broken a single law. While you, on the other hand, have - by accusing me, through accusing all "pirates", of being a thief when you have no proof whatsoever.

 

[squid5580]

If I had said shadowbird is a thief then you would have nothing to prove. Since that is not what I said you would first have to prove you are a pirate first. Without that you have no case. Not complicated. Or have you forgotten innocent until proven guilty? You have to prove my guilt. I don't have to prove my innocence.

Yes, of course. Ignore the entire central discussion and just concentrate on the most trivial, nonsensical tangent in the footnote. I'll have to take that as admitting that I'm right.

And you are right about this one, I would have to admit I'm a pirate. However, there isn't a single law prohibiting downloading of copyrighted materials - it's perfectly legal in every way (if it wasn't, the companies would be spending the thousands in courtrooms, not on fraudulent advertisements). As long as I use, say, a modified p2p client that only downloads, but never uploads, I am a pirate, yet I haven't broken a single law. While you, on the other hand, have - by accusing me, through accusing all "pirates", of being a thief when you have no proof whatsoever.

You can polish that turd all you want but at the end of the day a piece of shit is still a piece of shit no matter how shiny it is.

And I don't respond to every broken quote. I know far to well what a set up that is. Far to easy to take individual lines out of context than it is to respond to the whole paragraph.

You know what sickens me about pirates? They think oh well it is only the devs we are hurting. But it is not. If you had any sense of a moral code you would see it is a ripple effect. You are stealing from the company that sells the game (like Valve or Gamestop). You are stealing from your own government by avoiding paying the taxes on the game. And closer to my heart your actions are having a direct impact on gamers like me who have to suffer through stupid DRMs because you lack the morals to distinguish the difference between right and wrong. But that is ok because you got your game right?

 

[shadowbird]

You can polish that turd all you want but at the end of the day a piece of shit is still a piece of shit no matter how shiny it is.

Exactly. You can keep looking away and pretending the the world is black & white, that everyone is either a perfectly good citizen or a heartless criminal, but the facts won't bend to your religion - and the facts are that pirates also buy games, that there is no theft unless someone loses something he had, and that just because you call giving someone money for their work "hurting them and stealing from everyone" doesn't make it so.

I'm a "pirate" and I pay for every single game I enjoy (and I'm not the only one). You can keep ignoring it all you want, it's a fact that won't go away anytime soon.

 

[squid5580]

You can polish that turd all you want but at the end of the day a piece of shit is still a piece of shit no matter how shiny it is.

Exactly. You can keep looking away and pretending the the world is black & white, that everyone is either a perfectly good citizen or a heartless criminal, but the facts won't bend to your religion - and the facts are that pirates also buy games, that there is no theft unless someone loses something he had, and that just because you call giving someone money for their work "hurting them and stealing from everyone" doesn't make it so.

I'm a "pirate" and I pay for every single game I enjoy (and I'm not the only one). You can keep ignoring it all you want, it's a fact that won't go away anytime soon.

If you are so intent on shooting yourself in the foot while screwing over your fellow gamers who am I to stop you? It isn't like you can't do a bit of research to see if you like a game or not (you know like us legit customers do). The one thing you don't seem to understand is when you pirate it then no longer does the whole "well if I like it I buy it" excuse fly (regardless if this is actually the case or not). It isn't like the developers can distinguish between that and pirates who never buy a single game when they look at the numbers. All they see is this game was downloaded illegally X amount of times. The only thing I will say is that you are right that more demos are needed. Although I am sure then you would say that "well I pirate because the demos aren't long enough"

 

[shadowbird]

If you are so intent on shooting yourself in the foot while screwing over your fellow gamers who am I to stop you? It isn't like you can't do a bit of research to see if you like a game or not (you know like us legit customers do). The one thing you don't seem to understand is when you pirate it then no longer does the whole "well if I like it I buy it" excuse fly (regardless if this is actually the case or not). It isn't like the developers can distinguish between that and pirates who never buy a single game when they look at the numbers. All they see is this game was downloaded illegally X amount of times.

So basically what you're saying is that if I download a game from the Internet, I shouldn't even bother paying for it afterwards, since the fact that I have contributed to the total number of "pirates" automatically cancels out any financial gain from my purchase?

The only thing I will say is that you are right that more demos are needed. Although I am sure then you would say that "well I pirate because the demos aren't long enough"

I can't remember downloading any game that had a demo, except in the cases where I've already pre-ordered it and just got too impatient waiting for the shipment to reach me. We pre-order from USA and/or UK over here, since the local gaming trade is practically non-existant as far as pre-orders are concerned, and even when once in a blue moon such an offer becomes available, all the local prices are nearly double what they cost in USA (for example, right now the cheapest price for a new Uncharted 2 for PS3 I could find was $92).

As a result, it takes from a week (rarely) to a month before I actually get the game I paid for. The publisher wants me to pay for playing his game? No problem. He wants me to sit around twiddling my thumbs for a month while I wait for the game to get to me when there's an instant-delivery alternative? No thanks. Some music artists have already started the practice of giving you an mp3 download link when you purchase their album, why can't game publishers do the same? Steam is currently the only decent legal alternative to "piracy" (one of the reasons why PC games make up the largest part of my legal game collection), but it too took years to catch up with filesharing in terms of simplicity and ease of use, and there's still nothing equal for the consoles.

 

[stabnex]

THEY SHOULD FEEL THREATENED! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

OT: Any game developer who doesn't admit to piracy being a threat to his or her industry is either a pillock or just ignorant. I don't know of a single gamer who hasn't pirated a game at some point in their life. And those people are typically good people who were just too broke to buy said games but were enthralled by the unavoidable hype developers shoved down his eyesockets.

 

[mattman106]

Anything they can do to identify a user, without their prior consent, and using that to punish them is in essence entrapment, and thus cannot be used in a court of law. It's why police can't, for example, run a fake child porn site and prosecute everyone who subscribes.

As far as I know what you say is incorrect. The Police could run a fake child porn site and catch people and it not count as entrapment because the paedophile would of had a choice of to go online to look for child porn. As far as I know entrapment is when you are essentailly coerced or forced into breaking the law.

Sorry, you are clearly wrong here. Otherwise, you'd here about it... on every child porn bust.

You see sites which are busted giving up credit card lists, and stuff... as they are taken. The police cannot run those kind of schemes in the UK, at very least.

Entrapment is the act of a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense which would be illegal and the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.

That's from Wiki but it is cited.

Otherwise have been unlikely to commit. Paedophiles would still have gone looking for child porn so the sites don't count as entrapment.

 

[The Cake Is Annoying]

Why, it's simple. The devs simply need to release a version of their game on all the illegal piracy sites. However, the version they leak has a deadly virus. Three months after the game has been officially released, the virus will spring into action. Everyone's computer, or console, gets completely destroyed, and the screen continually shows disgusting videos, such as a picture of a dead baby, or gay bondage.

On a scale of 1 to Really Illegal, how bad do you think such an idea would be?

[sub]Hint: Quite a lot.[/sub]

Enjoy going to jail and/or getting sued into the ground.

It may wind up increasing sales of gay bondage pics, mags and flicks too!

How does anyone know they aren't turned on by it until they see it? : )

 

[Darkmantle]

Why, it's simple. The devs simply need to release a version of their game on all the illegal piracy sites. However, the version they leak has a deadly virus. Three months after the game has been officially released, the virus will spring into action. Everyone's computer, or console, gets completely destroyed, and the screen continually shows disgusting videos, such as a picture of a dead baby, or gay bondage.

On a scale of 1 to Really Illegal, how bad do you think such an idea would be?

[sub]Hint: Quite a lot.[/sub]

Enjoy going to jail and/or getting sued into the ground.

I think the better idea would be to release a bugged version on pirating sites, or a demo like version. that would mess with people, make finding a torrent harder at least

 

[Aeshi]

Why, it's simple. The devs simply need to release a version of their game on all the illegal piracy sites. However, the version they leak has a deadly virus. Three months after the game has been officially released, the virus will spring into action. Everyone's computer, or console, gets completely destroyed, and the screen continually shows disgusting videos, such as a picture of a dead baby, or gay bondage.

On a scale of 1 to Really Illegal, how bad do you think such an idea would be?

[sub]Hint: Quite a lot.[/sub]

Enjoy going to jail and/or getting sued into the ground.

I'm no law expert but wouldn't the pirated copies count as being "illegally modified"? or else anyone could just grab a game, mod in some offensive material and sue.