UK Retailer Says No to Resident Evil: The Mercenaries Trade-Ins

Doclector

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JediMB said:
Xanthious said:
Video games aren't special. Publishers think that for some reason they should be immune to the second hand market. Second hand sales have been around for as long as goods have been produced and sold.
Video games are special. Because of the consumer culture that surrounds them.

I don't know anyone who would buy a book, a DVD, a car, furniture, etc., only to return their purchase to the store a week later to get about 50% of what they paid back. I know plenty of people who get rid of their video games as soon as they're done with the single player campaign, while everyone I know would hold onto those other products for at least a couple of years.

You may not think that's justification for working against resales of video games, but you're still wrong about video games not being a special case.
I hang into games for years. If they're good enough.

I know the pre owned Market weighs heavier on games than other products, but there are better ways to deal with it. EA's top ten dollar scheme is brilliant...when it adds extra content continuously for new game purchasers, instead of taking stuff away, like the entire online, for example. Good examples include the brilliant continual support of battlefield bad company 2 "VIP" users, who got extra map versions for different modes at launch then an entire map pack of adapted single player locales and fan favourites, and more recently, Alice madness returns' tempting offer of a free download of the original alice with new copies.

Basically, what capcom is doing isn't just offering extra content or even taking it away, but effectively breaking the game, making it full on incomplete for pre owned buyers, disallowing them from unlocking their own stuff. It's like buying a pre owned DVD and only being able to see the ending first. It's nigh on criminal, and I back hmv's descicion not to support it.
 

Babitz

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Treblaine said:
FelixG said:
Ohhh yeah, Steam (and Impulse, love Sins of a solar empire <3) have really spoiled me, just click and boot up the game to play, no hassle or having lots of CD cases laying around anymore.
Babitz said:
Haha
I really know what you mean by that, man. Ever since I discovered the wonderful convenience that is Steam, and digital purchase in general, I really feel uneasy about going to a store and using up physical storage space. I even purchase my groceries via internet nowadays.
Steam is the best thing that happened to gaming in the past decade.
Speak of the devil, what has just started on steam?

[HEADING=2]STEAM SUMMER SALE MUUUAAHAHAHAH!![/HEADING]

Borderlands: Game of the Year edition = £7.50 incl. ALL the DLC!

That's less than half what the best online price for the 360 version
And I just found out TF2 is f2p. Steam. <333333
 

PhoenixVanguard

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Uhm...excuse me? Does ANY one here...game journalist, forum poster, or otherwise presumably literate person even know what Mercenaries is? It's a time-trial based score run. There's no story progress...at all. The only thing permanent save games takes away in this particular game is your ability to unlock things or delete old high scores. Is that REALLY such a big deal? If it bothers you, just DON'T use the unlockable weapons, levels, and characters until you've fulfilled the requirements to unlock them, and then man up and BEAT the high score. If anything, it's just sparing you some chores and setting a goal for you underachievers to live up to.

Yes, this would be a big deal in an ACTUAL game where you couldn't play from the beginning and properly experience the campaign after buying used. But this isn't that. It's a clunky, repetitive time-sink with Resident Evil's Face. There's not even really a strict order you have to play the stages in. Honestly, if we can't all learn to read and think instead of blurting out the first knee jerk reaction that comes to mind when there's press conference, then eventually developers are going to stop telling us anything at all, since so much as changing a menu screen is met with nerd-rage and boycotts.

Seriously, the amount of press this insignificant nuisance is getting sickens me. Forum fan rage is one thing, but you'd think anyone who calls them self a journalist of ANY kind would take two minutes to do the requisite research before posting inflammatory comments. THIS is all over the blogs, but I barely saw a blip when Volition announced the removal of competitive multiplayer from Red Faction. Really? In this very same series...TONS of press about how killing black zombies in AFRICA is SOME how racist (Expecting a lot of Japanese zombies in Africa, are we?), but virtually no stories about how the black character's only extra outfits before DLC were "Clubbin'" and "Tribal?" Ugh...as if all we know how to do is shake our butts in the club or chuck spears around the savannah. I mean, yes...I know how to do those things, but it's racist if you assume that before I explicitly tell you.
 

Cabisco

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StBishop said:
Demon ID said:
It's a pretty interesting way to see if it will boost sales, I don't nessessarily blame gaming companies trying to find ways to make a little more money as they don't make any from resales.

Two things i'm interested in:

What games have made a significant amount for gamestop etc from resales (wondering how it compares to actual new game sales)

And just as importantly, will this cause more piracy or as I suspect just give pirates an excuse to tell people.
I'm not sure if you're asking for Sale of "Game x New vs Game x Pre-Owned Sale profit" or "Games in general New vs Games in general Pre-Owned Sale Profit"

I can guarantee you that Profit from pre-owned games is immense compared with new titles. The mark up really isn't very much at all (in Australia).

The current business model of game retailers in Australia would be unsustainable if they simply stopped selling pre-owned games, as far as I'm aware this is common knowledge over here (I've known it since primary/elementary school circa 2002).

As far as individual games go, I honestly don't know.
Thanks for the info, I really don't blame companies for trying to sell pre owned games as you pointed out, it's a huge part of their profit.

What I meant is for example, while Black ops is the highest sold 'new buy' game, is it the highest sold preowned game also. Just wondering what games get into recirculation the most I suppose.
 

StBishop

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Demon ID said:
StBishop said:
Demon ID said:
It's a pretty interesting way to see if it will boost sales, I don't nessessarily blame gaming companies trying to find ways to make a little more money as they don't make any from resales.

Two things i'm interested in:

What games have made a significant amount for gamestop etc from resales (wondering how it compares to actual new game sales)

And just as importantly, will this cause more piracy or as I suspect just give pirates an excuse to tell people.
I'm not sure if you're asking for Sale of "Game x New vs Game x Pre-Owned Sale profit" or "Games in general New vs Games in general Pre-Owned Sale Profit"

I can guarantee you that Profit from pre-owned games is immense compared with new titles. The mark up really isn't very much at all (in Australia).

The current business model of game retailers in Australia would be unsustainable if they simply stopped selling pre-owned games, as far as I'm aware this is common knowledge over here (I've known it since primary/elementary school circa 2002).

As far as individual games go, I honestly don't know.
Thanks for the info, I really don't blame companies for trying to sell pre owned games as you pointed out, it's a huge part of their profit.

What I meant is for example, while Black ops is the highest sold 'new buy' game, is it the highest sold preowned game also. Just wondering what games get into recirculation the most I suppose.
In my experience (which is limited to be honest) plenty of games like that don't get traded in a heck of a lot due to the long term playability of multiplayer (especially so as this is the biggest sale point for many of these games) which forces more people to buy new.

Keep in mind that I only work over the Christmas/end of year/new year period so new games are sold more when I'm working due to the stigma sometimes associated with giving pre-owned as a gift (I imagine this is especially true when giving to angry xbox live teens).

But as I said, multiplayer FPS games are rarely traded in so close to this period, the biggest pre-owned sales come from single player games (think Alan Wake, Dragon Age: Origins, Bioshock) that are really well received by gamers; due to Christmas money, and kids hearing about what great games their mates got, which have been traded in by people who've already finished.

Also, this one's a little bit of an exception, Demon's Souls sold really well pre-owned one year, plenty of people brought it back because it was too hard, and there weren't many units new in Australia for some reason. Once it gained notoriety as the hardest game to come out since Nintendo made "Nintendo Hard" games we got at least one person per day asking if we had it. So in Australia Demon's Souls was a financial win in the Pre-Owned market.
 

Von Strimmer

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Games are in a class of their own when it comes to second hand sales. I mean no shop really does second hand dvd's or second hand windows 7. Your right in the fact that it is a commodity to be bought and sold like anything else. I do think though that developers do get a raw deal in regards to selling intellectual property.
 

kobrian

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Logan Westbrook said:
Capcom is presumably hoping that it sell more copies
That sounds about right, and either they are in cahoots with HMV or HMV have played right into their hands...
 

Von Strimmer

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Just thought I should point out that this game is getting the review-bombing treatment on Amazon. While Capcom may claim to have had no intention of nerfing second-hand sales, it's never a good idea to piss your fanbase off. Used sales may take away some potential income, but nowhere near as much as a piss-poor critical reception and a carpet bombing of one-star user reviews on Amazon. Now that sort of thing can have a really bad effect on sales.

Von Strimmer said:
Games are in a class of their own when it comes to second hand sales. I mean no shop really does second hand dvd's or second hand windows 7.
There's this little online shop you might have heard of. it's called Ebay. Last I heard, business wasn't doing too bad at all.
Yeah but ebay isn't a major retailer of games.
 

Epona

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Zoomy said:
I suppose we can assume for now that this isn't an anti-preowned gimmick. However, if it finds it's way onto other titles, then we can all suspect foul play.
Both Capcom and the game industry are old enough to know better than to do this by accident.
 

Epona

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Macgyvercas said:
You know, Chrono Trigger for the DS had no delete feature. Know how I got around that? I overwrote the file.
All of Square's cart based games, dating back to the SNES or maybe earlier, had no erase function but you could overwrite them. Not the case here, the save file is permanent.
 

Epona

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Frostbite3789 said:
Mark Davison said:
well, its not much, but they can chalk up one lost sale. I get pissed off enough when saves games are transferable (my brother fairly often bring a game home, starts playing it at mine, then finds he cant copy the save game. That cost Assassins Creed 2 a sale - he returned the following day because he couldnt be carsed to play through the first 2 hours again).
So your brother is lazy and didn't want to play the game. So that's a strike against the game? Oh...ok?

OT: This was a foolish idea from the start. I think it was kind of a good idea, but they had to know the backlash that was coming. If they didn't, they are even more shortsighted than Activision and that's saying something.
Locked save files are a strike against the game. How can people not see how much they have lost this gen, even your save file doesn't belong to you.
 

Macgyvercas

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Crono1973 said:
Macgyvercas said:
You know, Chrono Trigger for the DS had no delete feature. Know how I got around that? I overwrote the file.
All of Square's cart based games, dating back to the SNES or maybe earlier, had no erase function but you could overwrite them. Not the case here, the save file is permanent.
Right, how does that make any goddamn sense? What you have to beat the game in order to start over? What the hell?!
 

Epona

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Macgyvercas said:
Crono1973 said:
Macgyvercas said:
You know, Chrono Trigger for the DS had no delete feature. Know how I got around that? I overwrote the file.
All of Square's cart based games, dating back to the SNES or maybe earlier, had no erase function but you could overwrite them. Not the case here, the save file is permanent.
Right, how does that make any goddamn sense? What you have to beat the game in order to start over? What the hell?!
Not Square's games, you start a new game and just save over another one. You just can't delete a game.

With this game I guess there is no new game option as well as no delete game option creating a permanent save file.
 

The Dark Umbra

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Something like this makes me wanna say Boycott! Damn them for hating our used games,maybe if they dropped the price we would by more new games.
 

Feriluce

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Gaderael said:
Feriluce said:
Gaderael said:
Well, I'm in Canada, and finding info has been a little iffy, but in the US, wouldn't Capcom, by putting this save feature in their games, violate the first sale doctrine, because in effect they are interfering with an individuals ability to resell the item?
How are they interfering with that? Individuals can easily resell their items. The fact that other consumers might not want those items, doesn't realy have anything to do with it.
Yes, but consumers would not want the used copy specifically as a result of Capcom's save feature. Capcom are artificially decreasing the resale value of their product, thus interfering with the doctrine.

It'd be like selling a movie that would automatically lock itself to one single DVD/BD players permanently and you wouldn't be able to go back to previous scenes once you've watched them.
Or like selling a One-time-use barbeque that cannot be used more than once.
 

rainbowunicorns

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Phoenix Arrow said:
First of all, you say games don't deserve any different treatment that films and book get... but that's the point. Who buys second hand films or books?
When I was younger, about half of my books were second-hand; buying new cost at least twice as much. Admittedly, I have never purchased a second-hand movie, but I've also purchased very few movies. I've never been into a video rental store that didn't have a rack of recent used movies and a box or more of older used movies.
Your appliance example is certainly more apt, since appliance resales are generally done through newspapers or the internet, rather than in brick-and-mortar stores; however, they do still occur.

Phoenix Arrow said:
The only thing that is bought second hand as much as video games is cars and if Mercedes sell a car, they'll get 100% of that money. Capcom would get 30%
You seem to not understand how this works, so I'll try and help. Mercedes designs, builds, and sells their cars; they own or rent every resources that goes into the process. Another way to look at this is that they take 100% of the risk, and receive 100% of the profit, which makes a whole lot of sense.
Let's look at the game development cycle. Do you know of many game developers who can afford to own or rent all of the resources that go into making a game? The answer is likely that you are aware of a couple that could afford it. The others go to a publisher and try to convince them that this project has merit, and if the publisher funds it they will make back what they put in. Now, the publisher can't JUST make back what it puts in, it has overhead, and it also funds games that will fail (not intentionally, but not every idea ends up being a good idea once fully realized). So the publisher agrees to fund their game, and sets the terms to which the developer must agree if they want the funding. The developer isn't getting ripped off, they are entering into a voluntary contract.
Let's jump forward to when the game is done and the discs are printed, and we need to distribute it. Most publishers don't actually own brick-and-mortar stores, and many don't even own digital distribution networks. So they need game retailers to attempt to sell their games. The retailer needs to pay for staff, so they take a cut of the revenue of selling the game.
You see, because different components of the products life cycle are owned/funded by different groups, each group takes a cut of the revenue of the sale, and hopes to turn a profit.

You may be shocked to hear this, but this model is actually very common. Writers can't afford to not have income for years while they write their book, so they approach publishers take a risk and pay them for their work. Publishers don't own book stores, so they ask the book stores to stock their books, and the book store pays employees. It's everywhere, and it's beautiful; individuals and corporations entering into voluntary contracts for mutual benefit.

Phoenix Arrow said:
As for acting like retailers are heroes for having the charity to buy back games at 10% of the price they sell it as preowned... you almost made a good point.
If the original customer trades in a game for money or store credit, it's more likely that they will buy a game in the future. I don't think retailers act like they have charity, it's a shrewd business decision.

Phoenix Arrow said:
Companies should buy back their own games and sell them on their website as preowned, that's not a bad idea. But noone would bother. Selling something to a retailer is just easier.
If the publisher offered a higher percentage of the original purchase price in credit/money, then people would be bothered. Let's take your 10% number, and assume the publisher offered 20% and to pay for shipping (let's say a sticker comes in every game they publish). The game's owner now has a strong incentive to make the minimal effort of wrapping up the game, slapping on the sticker, and dropping it in a mailbox. Publishers choose not to do this, possibly because they don't think they can't make money competing with retailers. Regardless, they do not offer the service and retailers do.