Ultimate Order

[Oneirius]

In a thread I created some time ago I sayed that I belive that ultimate chaos will, at a certain point of "purity", bacome ultimate order, because chaos will be all encompassing and certain and seamless.
Here is another thaught down the same line.
A state of true, ultimate order is one that has no change and difference in it. Most people would imagin a big web or something but I belive this picture to be wrong. There is *still* difference in a universe that is a big spiderweb. Between the lines there is something else.
Between atoms there is something else. Between photons.
A state of very powerful metaphysical order would encourage patterns. A state of PERFECT order, would not. Merely defininig something as a pattern implies that other things exist outside of it. Heck, defining ANYTHING would do that.
So I say: a state of ultimate, perfect order can only be achived in one situation: void. Complete void. Utter nothingness.

(Coming to think about that, that would also mean that ultimate order and chaos are the same thing. Interesting)

...........

What do you think?

 

[Lukeje]

So I say: a state of ultimate, perfect order can only be achived in one situation: void. Complete void. Utter nothingness.

There's no such thing; QED tells us that empty space actually has a zero-point energy.

 

[Glerken]

I want to answer, I really do.

But I can't read your OP, grammar and spelling my friend.

 

[Oneirius]

I am very sorry. I am tired, a bit sick, and I do not speak english very well.
I hope I will be able to improve one day.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

What is it with you and screwing around with Order and Chaos? What did they ever do to hurt you?

 

[Oneirius]

Nothing, really. I just like reading Moorcock's fantasy, that is all.

 

[Aries_Split]

No such thing as nothing. At least nothing that we can comprehend to a decent level.

 

[manaman]

I am very sorry. I am tired, a bit sick, and I do not speak english very well.
I hope I will be able to improve one day.

Not speaking English on the internet is like not being able to speak Spanish in Southern California. Sure you may run across a few people you can talk to, but if you really want to have a conversation you going to exclude the vast majority.


As far as a void being the perfect "order," well that cannot be true.

Order is either a command, or it a grouping in reference to everything else.

Basically you are using it to mean the second definition (which it actually has 20 some odd specific definitions all being specific to fields or variations of the two basic definitions). In that light you actually have to have something to have order.

Edit: yeah I realize there are is a large and fast growing section of the internet that is Chinese.

 

[Lordmarkus]

Too. Complicated. English. Ahrrg!

But I reckon that perfect order is better than anarchy. Right?

 

[Dramatic Flare]

I believe he is referring to absolute order and absolute chaos. It is not a government ideology or a command. He means order- the very essence.

Because order - perfect order- requires uniformity in all things, he is saying the only way to achieve this is to have no objects- a nothing is the only order.

Of course, I disagree. One can not have order without chaos, heaven without hell, nor love without hate- we require their polar opposites to know what the other one is.
If we could only do good because there was no evil, would it still be good?

 

[Xvito]

Too. Complicated. English. Ahrrg!

But I reckon that perfect order is better than anarchy. Right?

Why can't there be order in Anarchy?

Also, to answer the OP.

Nature strives towards chaos all the time... So there would definitely be chaos if no one was around to make it otherwise.

 

[R.O.]

Nihilism give the man a hand yaaaaaa! But remember, even nothingness is something.

 

[Agent Larkin]

Dosent it stop being nothing once you observe it? And anyway this did confuse me.

 

[Lordmarkus]

Too. Complicated. English. Ahrrg!

But I reckon that perfect order is better than anarchy. Right?

Why can't there be order in Anarchy?

Maybe because anarchy is synonymous with chaos? If you want, you can also give an example how mankind can live in absolute freedom with no laws. We are after all only humans. Often evil ones.

 

[Xvito]

Too. Complicated. English. Ahrrg!

But I reckon that perfect order is better than anarchy. Right?

Why can't there be order in Anarchy?

Maybe because anarchy is synonymous with chaos? If you want, you can also give an example how mankind can live in absolute freedom with no laws. We are after all only humans. Often evil ones.

I love that people have some sort of belief that anarchy means chaos... It means "without leaders", not "without order"!

 

[H.R.Shovenstuff]

LordMarkus your tintin avatar rocks.

 

[Lordmarkus]

LordMarkus your tintin avatar rocks.

Thank you!

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

Doesnt order require something to exist to give order to. If there was absolutely nothing, there would be no order as there would be nothing. Nothing cannot create anything, so nothing cannot create order

 

[Lordmarkus]

Too. Complicated. English. Ahrrg!

But I reckon that perfect order is better than anarchy. Right?

Why can't there be order in Anarchy?

Maybe because anarchy is synonymous with chaos? If you want, you can also give an example how mankind can live in absolute freedom with no laws. We are after all only humans. Often evil ones.

I love that people have some sort of belief that anarchy means chaos... It means "without leaders", not "without order"!

It is just that in anarchy you don't have either leaders or laws. Without laws and law enforcement, things might turn nasty. Imagine if someone wants to kill you or someone else. There is nothing to stop them. After that, people surely want revengekill someone etc. etc. I'm not saying that anarchy means chaos (ignore last post). It's just that a society without laws tends to come out in chaos. Because honestly, noone in their right mind can think a bunch of people can live peacefully for generations without laws. There will always be rotten eggs to screw things up.

 

[Pimppeter2]

No, no one agrees with everyone completly. I think thats the gist of your thread