Uncharted 4 Will Have Microtransactions at Launch

Tohuvabohu

Not entirely serious, maybe.
Mar 24, 2011
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FirstNameLastName said:
Oh god, it fucking burns! I can't help but cringe at the blatancy of it all. They aren't even trying to hide how micro-transaction based economies work, and yet, people will still ignorantly defend them.
Uhuh. Just cause someone doesn't have their pitchfork and diapers at the ready every time 'Microtransaction' is uttered, and choosing to instead wait and see how a Microtransaction could effect a game (if at all), before criticizing it, that makes them an "ignorant defender."

Who are the ignorant ones here?

For all you people shrugging your shoulders and saying: "eh, it's optional. You don't need to pay for them."
Congratulations, you've fallen into their trap. People seem to build this bizarre myth around micro-transactions, as if they simply drop from the sky; as if they're an after thought and the in game economy isn't designed around them from the beginning. Well, you're completely and utterly wrong to think that.


Okay. How?

[quote]When you play a game with micro-transactions you are playing a game that's designed to give a sub-par experience to those who don't pay up.[/quote]

Damn, Mortal Kombat X sure has everyone nailed to the wall with their Easy-Fatality economy. You just [i]cannot[/i] do Fatalities otherwise. It's impossible! They stacked every possible card against you to perform a single fatality! You absolutely need to buy Easy-Fatality tokens in order to do Fatalities! I mean what, you expect them to let you practice fatalities to do them yourself? They're tied to Microtransactions! Of course they wouldn't let you-

[spoiler][MEDIA=youtube]'GeRmwZJDAq0'[/MEDIA][/spoiler]

ooooh wait, they do let you practice to your hearts content and allow you to memorize each and every fatality. [i]Darn.[/i] It's almost like the microtransactions don't matter. But...

[quote]you're completely and utterly wrong to think that.[/quote]

Huh. I mean, I just provided a specific example of how MT's don't actually provide a 'sub-par' Fatality experience here, and how they don't actually matter at all.
Care to explain for this specific instance how I'm wrong without moving the goalposts to another game or DLC concept altogether? (Hint: You cannot.)

[quote]The tedium of it all is designed to get players to weight up their time against their wallet, and ultimately decide to start paying; to [I]incentivize[/I] players to pay up. To put it in the crudest way possible, it's pretty much the equivalent of them taking a shit all over their own game, then offering you the [I]option[/I] to pay them to clean it. But hey, it's [I]optional[/I], right? Well, I don't want your shit-covered game, and I'm not going to go through the grind of cleaning it myself just because these arseholes wanted more money.

I'm just waiting for the day that they announce Fallout 4 has micro-transactions, then I can just give up on AAA gaming altogether.[/quote]

The alarmist demagoguery sure is tiring. It's entirely possible to wait and see how MT's are implemented before rightfully criticizing them. But no, showing apprehension and giving way to critical thinking instead of outrage knee-jerkery makes one an "ignorant defender."

If the MT's turn out to be paying for things like power, then I'll definitely criticize it. But if MT's turn out to be things like dances or making my gun pink, then you'll have to excuse me for not giving a shit.
 

Otaku World Order

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Nov 24, 2011
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Yeah, I'm sure this will be the last game in the series. Let me guess, the game will end with Corey Feldman whacking Nathan Drake with a machete while screaming "DIE! DIE! DIE!" to show it's over for really reals this time.

Actually... I wouldn't mind seeing that.
 

FirstNameLastName

Premium Fraud
Nov 6, 2014
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Tohuvabohu said:
FirstNameLastName said:
Oh god, it fucking burns! I can't help but cringe at the blatancy of it all. They aren't even trying to hide how micro-transaction based economies work, and yet, people will still ignorantly defend them.
Uhuh. Just cause someone doesn't have their pitchfork and diapers at the ready every time 'Microtransaction' is uttered, and choosing to instead wait and see how a Microtransaction could effect a game (if at all), before criticizing it, that makes them an "ignorant defender."

Who are the ignorant ones here?
Nice, two sentences in and we're already into absurd, hyperbolic strawman arguments. I never said you have to be practically frothing at the mouth with rage, but some people will defend them, no matter how blatant, under the guise of "but it's optional!" without realising that the vast majority of times they will still effect game play and game design even if you don't pay for them.
For all you people shrugging your shoulders and saying: "eh, it's optional. You don't need to pay for them."
Congratulations, you've fallen into their trap. People seem to build this bizarre myth around micro-transactions, as if they simply drop from the sky; as if they're an after thought and the in game economy isn't designed around them from the beginning. Well, you're completely and utterly wrong to think that.


Okay. How?
[/quote]
[img width=200]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000822867536/3f5a00acf72df93528b6bb7cd0a4fd0c.jpeg
wow
such meme
very epic
much reference
When you play a game with micro-transactions you are playing a game that's designed to give a sub-par experience to those who don't pay up.
Damn, Mortal Kombat X sure has everyone nailed to the wall with their Easy-Fatality economy. You just cannot do Fatalities otherwise. It's impossible! They stacked every possible card against you to perform a single fatality! You absolutely need to buy Easy-Fatality tokens in order to do Fatalities! I mean what, you expect them to let you practice fatalities to do them yourself? They're tied to Microtransactions! Of course they wouldn't let you-


ooooh wait, they do let you practice to your hearts content and allow you to memorize each and every fatality. Darn. It's almost like the microtransactions don't matter. But...

you're completely and utterly wrong to think that.
Huh. I mean, I just provided a specific example of how MT's don't actually provide a 'sub-par' Fatality experience here, and how they don't actually matter at all.
Care to explain for this specific instance how I'm wrong without moving the goalposts to another game or DLC concept altogether? (Hint: You cannot.)
Ah, again with the absurd hyperbole, because I definitely said it was literally impossible to do these things without paying up. I never said there were absolutely no games with micro-transactions that aren't completely ruined, you're just wilfully misinterpreting statements that should probably have been worded slightly less strongly (it was right before going to bed). Nonetheless, your smug sarcasm and hyperbole isn't appreciated, nor is it helpful to the discussion.

I agree that Mortal Kombat X wasn't ruined (although I never played the game, so that means very little). Regardless, those micro-transactions were more of an outlier, rather than an accurate representation of micro-transactions over all. And of course, they were still bullshit in their own right. Rather than fucking with any economy, bafflingly enough, they were more along the lines of selling jars of air. Completely pointless to buy, but still completely farcical and audacious to actually sell them.

The tedium of it all is designed to get players to weight up their time against their wallet, and ultimately decide to start paying; to incentivize players to pay up. To put it in the crudest way possible, it's pretty much the equivalent of them taking a shit all over their own game, then offering you the option to pay them to clean it. But hey, it's optional, right? Well, I don't want your shit-covered game, and I'm not going to go through the grind of cleaning it myself just because these arseholes wanted more money.

I'm just waiting for the day that they announce Fallout 4 has micro-transactions, then I can just give up on AAA gaming altogether.
The alarmist demagoguery sure is tiring. It's entirely possible to wait and see how MT's are implemented before rightfully criticizing them. But no, showing apprehension and giving way to critical thinking instead of outrage knee-jerkery makes one an "ignorant defender."

If the MT's turn out to be paying for things like power, then I'll definitely criticize it. But if MT's turn out to be things like dances or making my gun pink, then you'll have to excuse me for not giving a shit.
Yeah, I guess rather than dancing around the issue, I'll just come out and say it: you clearly feel personally slighted by my words, as if you think they were aimed at you. They were not. By "ignorant defenders" I'm referring to people who'll defend the more audacious implementations under the belief that just because it's optional then it doesn't effect the gameplay itself, as if they were simply bolted after the rest of the game was developed. I'm not saying that not automatically opposing them is the same as defending them. Since you seem to see any lack of ambiguity as grounds for more sarcasm and hyperbole, let me clairfy; not all in game economies are slanted to the same degree, some are absolutely despicable, others are merely slightly annoying, and some are completely pointless.

As for whether or not it's simply emotes and cosmetic items, this is more of a semantic quibble, but I don't really count them as micro-transactions unless they can be unlocked in-game, although it seems others do. I count them as small DLC items, and was somewhat surprised to learn that others count them as micro-transactions. To me, micro-transactions are when they're selling in game items (weapons, guns, armour, unlocks) or some form of currency (xp, levels, money), or, pretty much anything that effects something other than apperance. The line between such things is rather blurry at times, I'll admit.
As for why I'm not giving them the benefit of doubt; you seem to have completely ignored the part I quoted, so let me point it out again.
Steven Bogos said:
...

"Microtransactions will be available at launch, but we'll have no gameplay items that will be gated through microtransactions," he told GameSpot [http://www.gamespot.com/articles/uncharted-4-multiplayer-to-include-microtransactio/1100-6431779/?utm_source=gamefaqs&utm_medium=partner&utm_content=news_module&utm_campaign=hub_platform]. He added that striking the right balance, between grinding for items and <color=red>incentivising real-money acquisitions, will be determined after Naughty Dog looks at the data from the Uncharted 4 multiplayer beta.

...
So don't tell me that this will be another Mortal Kombat X type deal when they are blatantly saying they'll try be fucking with altering the game balance in order to "incentivize" players to pay up.

This was the main reason I even brought up people's ignorance; since they are out-right telling people that micro-transactions alter game balance and economies yet people still seem to believe otherwise even when they're at their most egregious, simply because, again, they're optional.

And the reason why this annoys me so much is that people in the past shrugged their shoulders so much that micro-transactions, of all varieties, in full priced games, are no longer news any more. This development annoys me, but it doesn't surprise me in the least, since it's par for course with AAA gaming at the moment. "This won't set a bad precedent," they said. "Slippery slop fallacy," they said.
And now here we are.
 

Redvenge

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Oct 14, 2014
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Lightspeaker said:
Here's a novel idea: You pay for the game. You get the game's content. Stuff like costumes can be unlocked by completing things in the game rather than with a credit card.

Genius!

>_>

...
From my understanding of the "finalization process" of a game, the last 6 to 8 weeks consist of finalizing the nuts and bolts in order to meet "release standard". During this time, the art team has nothing to do, since they are not programmers.

So, it is possible that the art team designs new stuff that cannot be in the core game. It is also possible that the developer wants to sell this additional content during the period of time that the game is most popular, ie, at release.

IF the content is truly cosmetic, then this explanation seems plausible. If they are selling story/mechanics content at release, then something is amiss.
 

Glaice

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Mar 18, 2013
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Oh hey look, another developer to add to my shitcan list that joins EA, Ubisoft and Overkill.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
8,407
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Lightknight said:
Also, and I can't stress this enough, how about we actually see how they implement it before raining down fire from the heavens upon their scores?

Likewise, Naughty Dog likes to work on two major games at a time. We don't know what the second one is, only that it was also in development during the development of this game: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/02/naughty-dog-reveals-it-has-a-new-game-in-development

While that could be The Last of Us 2, don't forget that that IP was the second new IP of the ps3 generation. They never promised 2 new franchizes per console and yet that's what we got and both of them were absolutely great.
It doesnt matter. microtransactions in a 60 dollar game is not acceptable, never was acceptable and never will be acceptable.

Also didnt naughty dog pretty much confirmed they are working on TLOU sequel by now?

Tohuvabohu said:
Everyone is ready to spill their shit all over the internet the moment Microtransactions are announced, but say fucking NOTHING when the MT's prove to be completely unobtrusive and inoffensive.

Where's all the whinging about how MT's destroyed Mortal Kombat X? Oh, it didn't? "But it's microtransactions! Are you saying it's possible for Microtransactions to be in a game and not ruin it? Bullshit!"

Oh please. I've played more than a few games which had Microtransactions in them that didn't impact the game in the long run at all. But no one ever talks about those. Any shred of practice in self-control makes all these MT "issues" completely insignificant. It's pretty tiring seeing you all flip your piss all over the place at the drop of a Microtransaction announcement, then fall completely silent when nothing happens.
there is no such thing as unobtrusive microtransaction.

Oh, i guess you completely forgot about the shitstorm MKX microtransactions caused to the point where the company agreed they went too far?

Also complete and utter bullshit right here. a game you paid full price should not require you to wage constant war with a game to not pay them twice.

Tohuvabohu said:
Uhuh. Just cause someone doesn't have their pitchfork and diapers at the ready every time 'Microtransaction' is uttered, and choosing to instead wait and see how a Microtransaction could effect a game (if at all), before criticizing it, that makes them an "ignorant defender."
Microtransactions ALWAYS affect the game.


It's entirely possible to wait and see how MT's are implemented before rightfully criticizing them. But no, showing apprehension and giving way to critical thinking instead of outrage knee-jerkery makes one an "ignorant defender."
it doesnt matter, though. whatever way they are implemented, they deserve criticism. their very existence deserve criticism. microtransactions in a full price game, as a concept, is bad.

Redvenge said:
So, it is possible that the art team designs new stuff that cannot be in the core game. It is also possible that the developer wants to sell this additional content during the period of time that the game is most popular, ie, at release.
very likely. should not be permitted by the consumers though. this content if it is made should be part of patches.
 

Tohuvabohu

Not entirely serious, maybe.
Mar 24, 2011
1,001
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Strazdas said:
there is no such thing as unobtrusive microtransaction.

Oh, i guess you completely forgot about the shitstorm MKX microtransactions caused to the point where the company agreed they went too far?
Really? Ed Boon said that? I'm going to need a citation...

But as for the "shitstorm", yeah I remember it. It's the same "shitstorm" everyone raises up when 'Microtransaction' is uttered, and no details are given. Everyone raises this shitstorm way ahead of time by taking complete guesses into the worst-case-scenario.

I remember the wild-guesses taken were things like:

-Fatalities made even more difficult than ever to perform, to entice the purchase of EZ-Fatality tokens (Which turned out to be false)
-The Fatality timer being made shorter than ever, making it even more difficult to perform and entice the purchase of EZ-Fatality tokens (Which turned out to be false)
-There being no Fatality practice, making it more difficult to learn Fatalities and entice the purchase of EZ-Fatality tokens (Which turned out to be false)

And like always, the crowd fell silent when all of these allegations turned out to be false, and the microtransactions turned out to be unobtrusive.

Also complete and utter bullshit right here. a game you paid full price should not require you to wage constant war with a game to not pay them twice.
Man, this videogame-alarmist language is approaching Fox News "War on Christmas" levels of migraine inducing hyperbole.

Microtransactions ALWAYS affect the game.
This sounds more like an ideological stance to me. The full-stop rejection of Microtransactions as a concept.

it doesnt matter, though. whatever way they are implemented, they deserve criticism. their very existence deserve criticism. microtransactions in a full price game, as a concept, is bad.
So it is an ideological stance. Criticism before any details, just because microtransactions are microtransactions. If that's what you believe, then that's fine. You go ahead and believe that.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to say that criticism against a concept is one thing, but anything deeper than that before we have any thorough details is pure guess-work at best (See: MKX shitstorm)

But for me, personally, before I begin speaking in absolutes against the concept of Microtransactions, I need to convinced that they - as a concept - always affect a game I paid for in a meaningful way. So far, I am not convinced of that. I'll need more consistent evidence of this. Saying Microtransactions always affect a game in a meaningful way, "because they do", is not enough. It goes without saying that MT's sometimes DO affect a game. The difference between SOMETIMES and ALWAYS is very distinct.

I do have a theory as to why we are seeing this. Brief besides-the-point rant ahead:

Remember Online Multiplayer Passes? How a few years back, these were prevalent in quite a lot of games, meant as a means for companies to recoup lost revenue for pre-owned sales? But now they're gone.

The solution to that problem? Microtransactions. I believe Online Passes weren't done away with because the industry saw the error of their ways. They were done away with because not only were they incredibly bad PR, but they were likely not an efficient means of generating revenue.

So now we see the rise in Microtransactions. Yes, sometimes microtransactions can be total horseshit for things like buying power or items. But sometimes, they're just purely cosmetics like weapon skins and emotes. In this case, I don't see the harm in it.

Microtransactions are a symptom of a problem the industry is having and is trying to solve. You've seen it. Millions of game copies sold for a AAA franchise, but yet the game fails to turn a profit. The rising cost of AAA Game Production with hundreds of people that need a paycheck. 10 years ago, the cost of games went up from 50$-60$, and the price has stagnated ever since, dozens of game studios went out of business (or were absorbed into growing Game Publisher conglomerates) while the costs continue to go up.

Call it Moving the Goalposts, but I think the real problem that doesn't get enough attention is the development costs vs. profit margins. It's possible, that even with millions and millions of buyers, there isn't enough money going in to turn a profit.
Railing against Microtransactions until they go away isn't going to stop the industry from finding another way to get more money out of people to keep generating profit and continue making more games.

^That's all besides the point for now, though. Would I like to see more exceptions to this rule? Like, CD Projekt Red, and their bevy of free DLC for The Witcher 3 along with several massive DLC exapnsions? Of course. But not every game developer also happens to own a [a href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOG.com']massive game distribution storefront[/a].

Redvenge said:
So, it is possible that the art team designs new stuff that cannot be in the core game. It is also possible that the developer wants to sell this additional content during the period of time that the game is most popular, ie, at release.
very likely. should not be permitted by the consumers though. this content if it is made should be part of patches.
As in, free patches?...

It's ultimately up to the customers what they permit or do not. If someone sees a weapon skin, or emote, they like and are willing to spend some money on it, that's their own business.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
8,407
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Tohuvabohu said:
But as for the "shitstorm", yeah I remember it. It's the same "shitstorm" everyone raises up when 'Microtransaction' is uttered, and no details are given. Everyone raises this shitstorm way ahead of time by taking complete guesses into the worst-case-scenario.
and it will keep being raised up because microtransactions as a concept is not acceptable.

Man, this videogame-alarmist language is approaching Fox News "War on Christmas" levels of migraine inducing hyperbole.
Just because you do not know how things work does not stop them from working.

This sounds more like an ideological stance to me. The full-stop rejection of Microtransactions as a concept.
microtransactions, as a concept, is anti-consumer. Thus consumers are rejecting it.

So it is an ideological stance. Criticism before any details, just because microtransactions are microtransactions. If that's what you believe, then that's fine. You go ahead and believe that.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to say that criticism against a concept is one thing, but anything deeper than that before we have any thorough details is pure guess-work at best (See: MKX shitstorm)
thanks, i will. if the concept as a whole is bad, the details dont matter, its still bad on conceptual level.

But for me, personally, before I begin speaking in absolutes against the concept of Microtransactions, I need to convinced that they - as a concept - always affect a game I paid for in a meaningful way.
Become a member of a community for any game with microtransactions. here, convinced.

So far, I am not convinced of that. I'll need more consistent evidence of this. Saying Microtransactions always affect a game in a meaningful way, "because they do", is not enough. It goes without saying that MT's sometimes DO affect a game. The difference between SOMETIMES and ALWAYS is very distinct.
Microtransactions of any kind create a culture of haves and have nots and wage psichological warfare with customers. the only way this would not be true is if the company would want you NOT to buy them, which is nonsensical since they would simply not put them for sale then. This is a case of ALWAYS.

Call it Moving the Goalposts, but I think the real problem that doesn't get enough attention is the development costs vs. profit margins. It's possible, that even with millions and millions of buyers, there isn't enough money going in to turn a profit.
Railing against Microtransactions until they go away isn't going to stop the industry from finding another way to get more money out of people to keep generating profit and continue making more games.
The game price was always overpriced, and it still is now, but due to price stagnation the overpricing is not as big anymore. No, the problem is marketing costs (which are not developement costs and should not be mixed in and for AAA games exceed developement costs) and the destruction of niche developement. COnsidering that videogame industry is one of the most profitable industries in the world, them "needing more money" is nonsense and only apply to individual companies who often bring it on themselves by their own stupidity. anti-consumer practices should not be tolerated to give a crutch for shit companies.

Would I like to see more exceptions to this rule? Like, CD Projekt Red, and their bevy of free DLC for The Witcher 3 along with several massive DLC exapnsions? Of course. But not every game developer also happens to own a massive game distribution storefront.
Hardly game distribution affecting it considering that the other 3 developers that do that turns out to be one of the worst offenders here.

As in, free patches?...
there is no such thing as paid patches, so yes. The intent being that with more content added and continuous support you foster a community and attract new customers (more sales).

It's ultimately up to the customers what they permit or do not. If someone sees a weapon skin, or emote, they like and are willing to spend some money on it, that's their own business.
If that worked, we would never need laws preventing anything, yet we got plenty. This would only work if customers were omniscient. they are not. thats the same problem unregulated market faces everywhere.