Unexpected News: The Wachowski Sisters! Second Wachowski Sibling Comes Out As Trans.

[zelda2fanboy]

Really? How do you think they get to that point in the first place? Do you think magical elves into their bedroom while they were sleeping and covered them with depression-causing glitter? People get to this point because assholes are being assholes to them. When these assholes are your coworkers, your neighbours, your friends and your family it wears down on you. Its not complicated. Nobody just becomes suicidal for no reason.

That's a gross oversimplification. What about people with paranoid schizophrenia hearing voices in their head and suspecting the world is made of robots plotting against them? Did that person just happen to run into a group of evil scheming robots or are they sick? Having emotional responses to what happens in your life is normal and acceptable. Murder is not. I don't think saying that someone who is rationalizing suicide is mentally ill is a particularly controversial stance. I'm pretty sure modern medicine and the law is clear about that as well. If you tell a police officer or a doctor that you feel that way, then they will do everything in their power to prevent you from hurting yourself. There's no "well maybe that's the only way out for him/her." Believe me, I want to be on your side on this issue (and trans people in general) as I'm pretty socially liberal on most things. I just want that one piece of the conversation on trans or gay people to not be given as much credence. And if it is a part of the conversation, then it be treated more seriously and not act as though it's always "everyone else's" fault that it happens or that it's a logical move for a discriminated trans person to make.

 

[Erttheking]

Perhaps a minority group that could possibly be dismissed as "mentally ill" shouldn't subtly threaten suicide as an option when its members are not accepted. A lot of people live in poverty and it's horrible. Do you think society would look well upon a poor person who enters a bank with a gun to his head demanding money?

Suicide doesn't help anyone. It just means one less person. If being trans is a absolutely essential to who you are as a human being, then suicide isn't martyrdom. It's a self inflicted hate crime. If you're in a mental state where suicide seems like a valid option, then your judgment of everything, including how you think others are treating you, is suspect.

Way to downplay the crap LGBT people have to go through. People kill themselves because they just want the pain to stop. Very rarely to make a point.

Please show a little respect.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

When somebody commits suicide, it's not about helping anyone, it's not about being a martyr, it's not even really about hurting friends and family, and it's not even about being unaccepted by society. It's about making unending misery, fear, and pain stop, it's about escaping a situation of pain, terror, and depression the only way the suicidal person sees possible. Also calling peoples judgment into question, calling a trans suicide a self inflicted hate crime... You know what, that shows a shocking lack of empathy from someone whose claimed to have battled suicidal thoughts and been personally effected by a suicide.

I've never seriously considered suicide, but one of my cousins did, and she succeeded in taking her own life. She wasn't even trans. Her husband divorced her and took custody of their child, along with her not having visitation rights. She lost her home in this process. She started drinking heavily at this point, then because of developing an alcohol problem, she lost her job. She was in her late 30s at this point, with no options, no future, and really burned bridges with her blood family well enough she had no support. She saw her life as being over, she saw her situation as hopeless, so she put her gun in her own mouth and she ended her life. I didn't like her, she was a self centered horrible person, the world is honestly a better place with her gone. I still loved her as family. I'm also sad she got to that point. Still I'm not going to condemn her for making that choice, especially because I can understand how awful and hopeless she felt.

The idea still at this point is to prevent people from feeling the need to commit suicide. Laying a guilt trip on people who feel worthless and miserable does not accomplish this goal.

Finally you talk about people thinking people are treating them some way because of something and that's suspect because the person is suicidal... When it comes to GSM folk, as in trans and gay folk... GSM people are not suicidal before being physically and mentally abused, thrown out of their homes, discriminated against, and thrown under the bus by their own freaking fiends and families. Blaming the victims who are driven into taking their own lives, while letting the people who contributed to that end skate, that's victim blaming. Which again shows a shocking lack of empathy.

Who am I laying a guilt trip on? Suicide victims aren't around to read message boards. If you can read this, then you're doing great. Secondly, suicide victims are also the perpetrators. They simply are. It hurts a lot of people and not being able to see that shows a "lack of empathy."

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Someone was in so much pain they ended their life and you're more concerned with the people around them? The people who will mourn but eventually move on? I think you might want to reevaluate this stance.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Snip

Someone was in so much pain they ended their life and you're more concerned with the people around them? The people who will mourn but eventually move on? I think you might want to reevaluate this stance.

No, I won't. People who commit suicide aren't suffering anymore. Their families are and always will. That pain never goes away.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Someone was in so much pain they ended their life and you're more concerned with the people around them? The people who will mourn but eventually move on? I think you might want to reevaluate this stance.

No, I won't. People who commit suicide aren't suffering anymore. Their families are and always will. That pain never goes away.

They're not suffering? So what, they just decided to kill themselves for shits and giggles?

And tell me, do you think that the families of people who committed suicide would appreciate you acting like this towards their lost loved ones? Personally I'd be pissed. And people move on when loved ones die. It happens. Pain is temporary. Death is permanent. I know who's suffering more here.

Do you consider volunteer soldiers who die in war to be selfish too? What about fire fighters who die on the job? Policemen? Relief workers who go into dangerous areas?

 

[zelda2fanboy]

They're not suffering? So what, they just decided to kill themselves for shits and giggles?

And tell me, do you think that the families of people who committed suicide would appreciate you acting like this towards their lost loved ones? Personally I'd be pissed. And people move on when loved ones die. It happens. Pain is temporary. Death is permanent. I know who's suffering more here.

Do you consider volunteer soldiers who die in war to be selfish too? What about fire fighters who die on the job? Policemen? Relief workers who go into dangerous areas?

No, they aren't killing themselves. What you seem to be suggesting is that there's another dimension for suicides to go to and be in agony for eternity, which is a belief I do not subscribe to and is another discussion entirely.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

And I'm not saying that those people aren't arseholes.

In my experience however, people who commit suicide forget about their friends (that is, their true friends, not the pricks who make their life hell and are mislabelled friends).

For every suicide I see this.

[-video snipped-]

Heartbroken mates whose life just took a turn towards Satan's wine-cellar.

Innocent people who would've like nothing more than to help them, being left feeling "why didn't I see this? Why didn't I stop this? I'm at fault, it's my fault that they're dead".

The problem with that line of thought is kind of a glaring one in two parts. First it's pretty easy to feel horrible about something like this after the fact. People tend to hold themselves responsible when they survive a friend, or family member, regardless of the cause, survivor's guilt is always part of the grieving process. Bargaining and Guilt stages to be exact. The other part is that if they were as close to the person they lost as they claimed, they would have seen how their friend was in agony, or at least known something was wrong.

But you can't just put all the anger on the person who did see fit to end their life, they didn't do it explicitly to upset others, they did it to make the pain stop. That's the thing, when your pain is so bad you can't see anything else, you really also can't be expected to see how your choices will effect others. The thing is, I've seen people fall to those depths, I've been there and it's a state that's hard to miss. So those "true friends" might want to take a moment to realize that they might not have been paying hard enough attention.

Really? How do you think they get to that point in the first place? Do you think magical elves into their bedroom while they were sleeping and covered them with depression-causing glitter? People get to this point because assholes are being assholes to them. When these assholes are your coworkers, your neighbours, your friends and your family it wears down on you. Its not complicated. Nobody just becomes suicidal for no reason.

That's a gross oversimplification. What about people with paranoid schizophrenia hearing voices in their head and suspecting the world is made of robots plotting against them? Did that person just happen to run into a group of evil scheming robots or are they sick? Having emotional responses to what happens in your life is normal and acceptable. Murder is not. I don't think saying that someone who is rationalizing suicide is mentally ill is a particularly controversial stance. I'm pretty sure modern medicine and the law is clear about that as well. If you tell a police officer or a doctor that you feel that way, then they will do everything in their power to prevent you from hurting yourself. There's no "well maybe that the only way out for him/her." Believe me, I want to be on your side on this issue (and trans people in general) as I'm pretty socially liberal on most things. I just want that one piece of the conversation on trans or gay people to not be given as much credence. And if it is a part of the conversation, then it be treated more seriously and not act as though it's always "everyone else's" fault that it happens or that's a logical move for a discriminated trans person to make.

First off, schizophrenia and depression are not comparable states. My mom had both, I've known many others with one, the other, or both, and they all will assert that they're incomparable to each other. So lets not try to make comparisons like that.

Second, suicide isn't murder, not technically. Ultimately a person's life is in their own hands, some people have given up on life to a point where they're perfectly healthy, being fed, but still just die due to lack of will to live. Which in it self is a type of suicide. Same thing can be said for people who drink themselves to death, that's also a type of suicide.

Now while there is a legal and medical stance against suicide, as in preventing it an anyway possible, there are still times where people emotionally break. There are times where people are in a particularly dark and painful place and they see death as the only escape. That's not to justify suicide, but it's important to understand that it's what happens to some people, along with that it's important to understand that it's stupendously difficult to pull a person out of that kind of mental state. Still we don't do anything constructive by vilifying people for feeling suicidal, or committing suicide, doing that doesn't help at all. That's something likely to make someone who feels bad enough to commit suicide, feel just enough worse about themselves to actually do it.

Finally when it comes Gender and Sexuality Minorities, the fact that this is such a common thing is evidence of a problem in society. For example, transgender people who transition are far less likely to attempt suicide, thus transition is generally considered medically necessary. Still we have these people with official power who deny us housing, employment, and try to legislate us out of existance. That kind of erasure does horrible to people. Still the answer isn't blaming the victims of things like that, the answer is taking the people who allow that discrimination and hatred's existence to task for how they allow others to be treated.

That's the whole point, when someone is in a broken mental state the why it happened part of the equation is extremely important. Vilifying the person driven to such extremes just makes others in the same sorts of situations feel even worse. That's not constructive, it's victim blaming and it helps no one, especially not the people current battling suicidal tendencies.

 

[Erttheking]

They're not suffering? So what, they just decided to kill themselves for shits and giggles?

And tell me, do you think that the families of people who committed suicide would appreciate you acting like this towards their lost loved ones? Personally I'd be pissed. And people move on when loved ones die. It happens. Pain is temporary. Death is permanent. I know who's suffering more here.

Do you consider volunteer soldiers who die in war to be selfish too? What about fire fighters who die on the job? Policemen? Relief workers who go into dangerous areas?

No, they aren't killing themselves. What you seem to be suggesting is that there's another dimension for suicides to go to and be in agony for eternity, which is a belief I do not subscribe to and is another discussion entirely.

Eternity? People don't live for an eternity. Phrases like that, and with "pain is forever" make me question how much you actually know about experiencing a loved one or a friend kill themselves, because instead of experience you seem to be saying things that sound dramatic? Tell me, do you know someone who's had a family member commit suicide? Or a friend? Because I do. And I tell you, they'd be absolutely furious at you right now.

Saying that someone is selfish for not being strong enough to live through pain is, ironically, selfish. You're more concerned about your own personally happiness than the fact that someone is dead.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

First off, schizophrenia and depression are not comparable states. My mom had both, I've known many others with one, the other, or both, and they all will assert that they're incomparable to each other. So lets not try to make comparisons like that.

Second, suicide isn't murder, not technically. Ultimately a person's life is in their own hands, some people have given up on life to a point where they're perfectly healthy, being fed, but still just die due to lack of will to live. Which in it self is a type of suicide. Same thing can be said for people who drink themselves to death, that's also a type of suicide.

Now while there is a legal and medical stance against suicide, as in preventing it an anyway possible, there are still times where people emotionally break. There are times where people are in a particularly dark and painful place and they see death as the only escape. That's not to justify suicide, but it's important to understand that it's what happens to some people, along with that it's important to understand that it's stupendously difficult to pull a person out of that kind of mental state. Still we don't do anything constructive by vilifying people for feeling suicidal, or committing suicide, doing that doesn't help at all. That's something likely to make someone who feels bad enough to commit suicide, feel just enough worse about themselves to actually do it.

Finally when it comes Gender and Sexuality Minorities, the fact that this is such a common thing is evidence of a problem in society. For example, transgender people who transition are far less likely to attempt suicide, thus transition is generally considered medically necessary. Still we have these people with official power who deny us housing, employment, and try to legislate us out of existance. That kind of erasure does horrible to people. Still the answer isn't blaming the victims of things like that, the answer is taking the people who allow that discrimination and hatred's existence to task for how they allow others to be treated.

That's the whole point, when someone is in a broken mental state the why it happened part of the equation is extremely important. Vilifying the person driven to such extremes just makes others in the same sorts of situations feel even worse. That's not constructive, it's victim blaming and it helps no one, especially not the people current battling suicidal tendencies.

Fair enough. As a general message to everybody though, don't commit suicide. It hurts the people who love you more than anyone else.

 

[MrFalconfly]

And I'm not saying that those people aren't arseholes.

In my experience however, people who commit suicide forget about their friends (that is, their true friends, not the pricks who make their life hell and are mislabelled friends).

For every suicide I see this.

[-video snipped-]

Heartbroken mates whose life just took a turn towards Satan's wine-cellar.

Innocent people who would've like nothing more than to help them, being left feeling "why didn't I see this? Why didn't I stop this? I'm at fault, it's my fault that they're dead".

The problem with that line of thought is kind of a glaring one in two parts. First it's pretty easy to feel horrible about something like this after the fact. People tend to hold themselves responsible when they survive a friend, or family member, regardless of the cause, survivor's guilt is always part of the grieving process. Bargaining and Guilt stages to be exact. The other part is that if they were as close to the person they lost as they claimed, they would have seen how their friend was in agony, or at least known something was wrong.

But you can't just put all the anger on the person who did see fit to end their life, they didn't do it explicitly to upset others, they did it to make the pain stop. That's the thing, when your pain is so bad you can't see anything else, you really also can't be expected to see how your choices will effect others. The thing is, I've seen people fall to those depths, I've been there and it's a state that's hard to miss. So those "true friends" might want to take a moment to realize that they might not have been paying hard enough attention.

Well, that is only how I see it.

I'm not saying it's absolutely the correct way of seeing it (I can't say that. The human experience, if anything, has told me that when human emotion are in play, there are never a clear answer. This is why I prefer to use statistics, because usually they get around the emotions by filtering them out using large numbers of individuals who may feel differently about the subject, but in this case I only have my own feelings, and therefore no clear answer), only that past experiences has coloured my view in this way.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

First off, schizophrenia and depression are not comparable states. My mom had both, I've known many others with one, the other, or both, and they all will assert that they're incomparable to each other. So lets not try to make comparisons like that.

Second, suicide isn't murder, not technically. Ultimately a person's life is in their own hands, some people have given up on life to a point where they're perfectly healthy, being fed, but still just die due to lack of will to live. Which in it self is a type of suicide. Same thing can be said for people who drink themselves to death, that's also a type of suicide.

Now while there is a legal and medical stance against suicide, as in preventing it an anyway possible, there are still times where people emotionally break. There are times where people are in a particularly dark and painful place and they see death as the only escape. That's not to justify suicide, but it's important to understand that it's what happens to some people, along with that it's important to understand that it's stupendously difficult to pull a person out of that kind of mental state. Still we don't do anything constructive by vilifying people for feeling suicidal, or committing suicide, doing that doesn't help at all. That's something likely to make someone who feels bad enough to commit suicide, feel just enough worse about themselves to actually do it.

Finally when it comes Gender and Sexuality Minorities, the fact that this is such a common thing is evidence of a problem in society. For example, transgender people who transition are far less likely to attempt suicide, thus transition is generally considered medically necessary. Still we have these people with official power who deny us housing, employment, and try to legislate us out of existance. That kind of erasure does horrible to people. Still the answer isn't blaming the victims of things like that, the answer is taking the people who allow that discrimination and hatred's existence to task for how they allow others to be treated.

That's the whole point, when someone is in a broken mental state the why it happened part of the equation is extremely important. Vilifying the person driven to such extremes just makes others in the same sorts of situations feel even worse. That's not constructive, it's victim blaming and it helps no one, especially not the people current battling suicidal tendencies.

Fair enough. As a general message to everybody though, don't commit suicide. It hurts the people who love you more than anyone else.

See, it's that last part that is really kinda a kick in the nuts. A lot of GSM folk end up in a place where they can kinda rightfully say that they have no one that actually loves them. People who have been abandoned by, or had to abandon their own friends and families. That's still a shocking and heart shatteringly common scenario people face when they come out of the closet. For those people the best you can say to them is that, just because the people you thought loved you have abandoned you, doesn't mean you won't find others who love and support you. It also doesn't mean that your family and friends are lost, chances are better than not that eventually they'll come around.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Eternity? People don't live for an eternity. Phrases like that, and with "pain is forever" make me question how much you actually know about experiencing a loved one or a friend kill themselves, because instead of experience you seem to be saying things that sound dramatic? Tell me, do you know someone who's had a family member commit suicide? Or a friend? Because I do. And I tell you, they'd be absolutely furious at you right now.

Saying that someone is selfish for not being strong enough to live through pain is, ironically, selfish. You're more concerned about your own personally happiness than the fact that someone is dead.

I'm particularly concerned about the families of hypothetical people who I don't know. I suppose that is really selfish on my part. Really inward facing on this issue. I've known multiple people over the years who have committed suicide and I think about them regularly, in some cases decades later. Maybe that's just me. Maybe other people move on and don't blab about it to strangers on message boards when it seemed for a second like people thought it was ok.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

See, it's that last part that is really kinda a kick in the nuts. A lot of GSM folk end up in a place where they can kinda rightfully say that they have no one that actually loves them. People who have been abandoned by, or had to abandon their own friends and families. That's still a shocking and heart shatteringly common scenario people face when they come out of the closet. For those people the best you can say to them is that, just because the people you thought loved you have abandoned you, doesn't mean you won't find others who love and support you. It also doesn't mean that your family and friends are lost, chances are better than not that eventually they'll come around.

Yeah, it really is. Very true.

 

[Silvanus]

I will keep using gender-based (that is, sex-based) pronouns because I'd rather use wording that describes an objective situation over one that is based on subjective and ailing choices.

In which case, your metric is going against both the legal and scientific consensus. Don't imagine for a moment you're being more "objective" in disregarding expert opinion.

This is putting aside that you're also being unduly insulting in disregarding somebody's identity, of course.

 

[Lightknight]

That would be true if you could find something measurable in the body or brain that objectively define your definition of gender - I might be wrong but I don't think such a thing exists, as behavior/sexual preferences cover such a wide range that any attempt of classification would be largely subjective. Facebook's ridiculous Gender Multilist is a prime example of this.

There isn't a "thing" so much as there are "things". Studies have found that, for example, trans-men have brain plasticity, reaction times, and spatial awareness that is more similar to the brains of non-trans men than it is to women. This is in addition to physical qualities like the finger digit ratio that actually is different on average between men and women but a trans-man's average digit ratio lines up with non-trans men more than women. There is also a statistically significant correlation where if one twin pursues transition surgery that the other twin will as well. That points strongly to a biological cause well beyond anything environmental since that twin study was only capturing actual transitions rather than whether or not the other twin identified as transgendered which should be a lot higher.

Consider what this means if transgenderism has actual distinguishable physiological differences that actually does line up with the opposite sex and if there are clear causative correlations with biological factors.

I will keep using gender-based (that is, sex-based) pronouns because I'd rather use wording that describes an objective situation over one that is based on subjective and ailing choices.

While I certainly understand that gendered pronouns are typically intended to describe the sex of a person, and personally struggled with that notion myself, the intention of using a different pronoun for transgendered people falls more under not being a dick than being grammatically correct.

As for "objective situation", you have probably met a lot more transsexual people than you realize. Watching my spouse going through it (Please note that this was a surprise to me, a straight male, and if anyone should be mad here it would be me) led me to be around a large number of people in the trans community. Let me tell you, depending on how long they've been on hormones and what procedures they've undergone you have NO idea what sex chromosome order they have. What would you do then if someone that clearly objectively looks male tells you they were born female? Do you start using female pronouns with that additional information or do you continue using male ones?

I remember going to a dinner with a bunch of guys and afterwards my spouse said to me, "Did it occur to you that you were the only person at the table with a dick?" No, it hadn't occurred to me because most of them were years into treatment and totally looked like their gender identity.

Of course he can dress as he want and even change his name - I just hope he won't choose to reach the point of mutilating himself simply because he dislikes the body he was born with.

Ultimately at some point you've got to ask yourself, what is this to you? Someone in the world is walking around with one more or one less dick. In what way are you or anyone you know personally impacted? Lower surgery technology isn't even really there right now so a lot don't even pursue it and just stick with upper surgery depending on the degree of dysphoria they have. Upper surgery is there and is relatively cheap to pursue and does have the greatest impact on individual happiness.

But you've got to understand that this isn't simple dislike of the body they were given. This isn't like some non-trans female looking at the mirror and not liking her cheek bones or breast size. It's dislike to the point of being a full-blown disorder that can frequently cause extreme depression that greatly impacts their lives (or even lead to the end of it). In order for medical doctors to justify this kind of intensive surgery there must be an established medical need for it. Otherwise they're just doing harm.

Think of it this way, for a small segment of the population, using pronouns that do not match their gender is like insulting them and they're already going through enough. Does it really cost you so much to be mindful of what the medical field calls a condition? Even if you personally think it's a mental condition rather than a biological one, what good is you misgendering them? It only hurts their feelings and what else?

 

[Lightknight]

I will keep using gender-based (that is, sex-based) pronouns because I'd rather use wording that describes an objective situation over one that is based on subjective and ailing choices.

In which case, your metric is going against both the legal and scientific consensus. Don't imagine for a moment you're being more "objective" in disregarding expert opinion.

This is putting aside that you're also being unduly insulting in disregarding somebody's identity, of course.

To be fair, most people do use gendered pronouns as a means of identifying the evident sex. This is the simple nature of the vast majority of the time being that gender ends up also matching sex and reinforced that when referring to someone you see you don't necessarily know what their gender is and so the default is to go with the visible sex. While the scientific community has evolved the terms to conform to gender identity rather than sex, this is not the common vernacular. I actually don't think society will ever stop using these terms at large to refer to the apparent sex of a person but will become more open to using apparently "incorrect" pronouns to defer to ones gender identity when that person's gender identity is known to be disparate from their sex.

So the primary point of using gendered pronouns for gender as opposed to sex is to use the terms in a correct medical sense and to not be dick. I wouldn't be so quick to put aside the "insulting" portion of why it is ethically bad to misgender and would actually place it at the forefront.

 

[Silvanus]

To be fair, most people do use gendered pronouns as a means of identifying the evident sex. This is the simple nature of the vast majority of the time being that gender ends up also matching sex and reinforced that when referring to someone you see you don't necessarily know what their gender is and so the default is to go with the visible sex. While the scientific community has evolved the terms to conform to gender identity rather than sex, this is not the common vernacular. I actually don't think society will ever stop using these terms at large to refer to the apparent sex of a person but will become more open to using apparently "incorrect" pronouns to defer to ones gender identity when that person's gender identity is known to be disparate from their sex.

This is true, and I don't think there's anything wrong with using the terms to refer to evident sex (well, unless somebody corrects you). As far as I can tell, though, Emanuele Ciriachi is going further, and saying that regardless of what someone does-- transitions, presents as their identified gender-- he would still consider, and call, them the terms associated with their birth sex.

Using the common vernacular in general usage is fine, as is merely making a mistake based on visible cues. Using the wrong terms when you know the person identifies as otherwise is not.

I wouldn't be so quick to put aside the "insulting" portion of why it is ethically bad to misgender and would actually place it at the forefront.

Good point.

 

[Lightknight]

To be fair, most people do use gendered pronouns as a means of identifying the evident sex. This is the simple nature of the vast majority of the time being that gender ends up also matching sex and reinforced that when referring to someone you see you don't necessarily know what their gender is and so the default is to go with the visible sex. While the scientific community has evolved the terms to conform to gender identity rather than sex, this is not the common vernacular. I actually don't think society will ever stop using these terms at large to refer to the apparent sex of a person but will become more open to using apparently "incorrect" pronouns to defer to ones gender identity when that person's gender identity is known to be disparate from their sex.

This is true, and I don't think there's anything wrong with using the terms to refer to evident sex (well, unless somebody corrects you). As far as I can tell, though, Emanuele Ciriachi is going further, and saying that regardless of what someone does-- transitions, presents as their identified gender-- he would still consider, and call, them the terms associated with their birth sex.

Using the common vernacular in general usage is fine, as is merely making a mistake based on visible cues. Using the wrong terms when you know the person identifies as otherwise is not.

Yes, that is exactly what Emanuele Ciriachi is doing. He is specifically tying gendered pronouns to chromosomes. My intention was to say that gendered pronouns really are intended to classify someone by apparent sex in the common vernacular and that it is a fairly new grammatical rule to use said pronouns to refer to gender instead once additional information to do so is given. This is the same reason why if we call a dude with long hair a she on accident we start saying he the moment he reveals that he's just got long hair. Additional information is supposed to change how we approach situations. However, I will add here that even gendered pronouns referring to apparent sex aren't referring to chromosomal sex. So it's weird to only enforce that for transgendered people when we would even apologize and correct ourselves if we misgendered someone who only looked like the other sex but wasn't that other sex or trying to look that way.

I actually had the same problem with pronouns awhile back and you guys helped me with that. Personally, I was afraid of using them and accidentally saying the wrong one and hurting my friends. Learning that it's more about not being a dick than being grammatically correct was what helped me get over this problem.

Emanuele may also benefit from learning about intersex people who are born with extra chromosomes yet regularly have one gender identity. It establishes that gender identity can exist separately from chromosomal expression.

 

[Something Amyss]

Being trans is not a temporary problem. You can be thrown in jail for being trans in about half of the world. Here in the United States at least a quarter of the population doesn't think it should be legal to be trans. These assholes will not go away in any of our lifetimes and will continue to make life hell for anybody trans during this time.

Trans panic is still a legal defense in 49 US states. Police are less likely to investigate the deaths of trans people or violence against trans people, assuming we even feel comfortable enough going to the police in the first place.

I will keep using gender-based (that is, sex-based) pronouns because I'd rather use wording that describes an objective situation over one that is based on subjective and ailing choices.

Of course it's not really objective, and we don't have any single objective marker for what makes someone male or female.

Claiming objectivity doesn't make you right, it only means you're misusing the word.