Unexplained Boss weaknesses

[Wilco86]

I'm Fiend-hunting (on Hard difficulty) in Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call, and I really can't understand Spoony complaining the difficulty by saying the players need a strategy guide or grind/try-and-error for hours. Some bosses can have surprising vulnerabilities (to connect this reply to the thread), but a common sense with choosing universally useful skills and a bit of forethought helps a lot.

For example, on my first try Pale Rider annihilated my team on its second turn of the boss battle, but it fell immediately on the second try when I brought debuffing anti-debuffer

Spoiler

(Ose with Fog Breath, War Cry, Dekaja and Dekunda)

to the battle instead of just muscles'n'attack magic. (I hadn't really used that in normal battles, but fusing that kind of thing "for the rainy day" paid off.)

Much more rewarding gameplay-wise than just the opposing element -system many games have.

 

[Wasted]

I remember in Uncharted 2, there was this mini-boss on the train that rush at you causing an instant-kill if he grabbed you. Logically I assumed that I need to kill him before he has a chance to get close. Many tries I pelted him with mountains bullets yet he will still rush through and kill me. Every single time my aim got better and I was able to stay away from him longer but he would still kill me. My brother who was watching the whole time just said to punch him which I did since I was frustrated with the boss' constant kills. After a few more tries I got the timing down to punch him before he could grab me.

He dies instantly.

Spoiler: This asshole from Kingdom Hearts II

At one point during the fight, he summons a bunch of water clones, and you need to kill them within a time limit or you die instantly for no reason. What's the unexplained weakness? The water clones have a weakness to fire. Let me repeat that: the water clones are weak to fire. You use fire to kill water. I... I just don't know.

I agree with his nonsensical instant kill. I would be content with dying from that attack if you see the water clones attack you or something. Nope as soon as the time runs out the screen literally fades to the game over screen without any indication as to what killed you.

It was so bad I remember the first time getting killed by that attack thinking my game bugged up because I saw Sora just standing as the screen faded to black only to get the game over.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

I'm Fiend-hunting (on Hard difficulty) in Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call, and I really can't understand Spoony complaining the difficulty by saying the players need a strategy guide or grind/try-and-error for hours. Some bosses can have surprising vulnerabilities (to connect this reply to the thread), but a common sense with choosing universally useful skills and a bit of forethought helps a lot.

For example, on my first try Pale Rider annihilated my team on its second turn of the boss battle, but it fell immediately on the second try when I brought debuffing anti-debuffer

Spoiler

(Ose with Fog Breath, War Cry, Dekaja and Dekunda)

to the battle instead of just muscles'n'attack magic. (I hadn't really used that in normal battles, but fusing that kind of thing "for the rainy day" paid off.)

Much more rewarding gameplay-wise than just the opposing element -system many games have.

SMT has always encouraged buffing and debuffing since most bosses have better stats than you and will gladly inflict debuffs on you.

As quoth Matador: "USE BUFFS!"

 

[Wilco86]

I'm Fiend-hunting (on Hard difficulty) in Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call, and I really can't understand Spoony complaining the difficulty by saying the players need a strategy guide or grind/try-and-error for hours. Some bosses can have surprising vulnerabilities (to connect this reply to the thread), but a common sense with choosing universally useful skills and a bit of forethought helps a lot.

For example, on my first try Pale Rider annihilated my team on its second turn of the boss battle, but it fell immediately on the second try when I brought debuffing anti-debuffer

Spoiler

(Ose with Fog Breath, War Cry, Dekaja and Dekunda)

to the battle instead of just muscles'n'attack magic. (I hadn't really used that in normal battles, but fusing that kind of thing "for the rainy day" paid off.)

Much more rewarding gameplay-wise than just the opposing element -system many games have.

SMT has always encouraged buffing and debuffing

Not true.

I've played SMT1 and SMT2 (via emulator) and probably Abaddon in the second one is the only one that needed to be buffed against. (Satan was like "You're dead! *instant-kill*" so buffing was a total waste of time.) Funnily I managed to mute some bosses (by using special ammunition) and even got Thor to shock itself by summoning electricity-reflecting Azumi, but I wouldn't count on them and plan my strategy that way.

In Persona 3: FES the first time I needed Rakukaja was against the Answer's final boss' ultimate attack. But in Persona 4 skills like Debilitate helped a lot. Also, in Persona 2 buffs are kinda useless if not performed via fusion attack to effect the whole team.

But in Digital Devil Saga and Strange Journey buffing and debuffing were kinda must.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

Final Fantasy 10 had a boss called Evrae Altana. The game never tells you, but it is afflicted with the zombie status, which causes healing spells and items to damage you.

Throw two Phoenix Downs at it and it's dead.

I think that's also something he can do to you, or maybe it was another Boss, I don't know. Anyway, he turns your party members Undead and then starts casting Healing spells on you or something, I can't remember exactly.

That's

Spoiler: FFX Spoiler

Yunalesca

you're thinking of. Half of her attacks will zombify a character or the whole party, which makes healing next to impossible. Yes you could continually cure it in order to heal, but she also has Mega-Death which will instantly kill every character that isn't a zombie.

Basically it's a ***** of a fight.

It is a pretty tough fight, unless you do some grinding until Yuna can unlock the Holy spell. If you do that, then the fight becomes pretty easy, if I recall correctly.

OT: Some Pokemon type match-ups don't make that much sense to me. I don't really get why Fighting is strong against Normal, Dragon is strong against itself, or why Dark is strong against Ghost. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I get why Water is strong against Fire. Sure, water will extinguish a fire, but that fire could just as easily turn that water to steam. The steam would likely be scalding hot, and would be far more more likely to injure a water type Pokemon than a fire type (because a fire type would be naturally resistant to heat). Or maybe, just maybe, I'm overthinking it

 

[Redryhno]

snip

Well, Dark is mistranslated from the original, Dark types are actually "Evil" types, and Ghost types are weak to them, if I'm remembering correctly,because of Ghosts being Spirit type, and Spirits in Japan are the good pacifist type, while Oni are the stronger, affect the world,bad type, add onto that that depending on accent, they're also "Evil", and you've got your reason.(It's been a long time though, I may be completely butchering their cultural history and language)

Dragon is explained as being strong against itself because again, Dragons are one of the strongest Spirits in their mythology, with very few things besides other Dragons being able to harm them, none of which humans are able to get ahold of. Then the Fairy type came along....

And there's only a handful of Fire-types that have body temperatures high enough to instantly turn water into steam, the rest have to put alot of effort to make themselves do that with their abilities.

Finally, Fighting being strong against Normal is due to the idea that the Fighting types are constantly improving themselves and not relying on innate abilities that have a ceiling, which Normal-types kinda have to do.

Most of the confusion arises from localization and language barriers though, as well as a dash of censorship, can't have kids be playing an obviously satanic game glorifying the fighting of defenseless little animals that can also be EVIL.

 

[Legomaniac91_v1legacy]

Spoiler: This asshole from Kingdom Hearts II

At one point during the fight, he summons a bunch of water clones, and you need to kill them within a time limit or you die instantly for no reason. What's the unexplained weakness? The water clones have a weakness to fire. Let me repeat that: the water clones are weak to fire. You use fire to kill water. I... I just don't know.

You can use fire to beat water, because the heat boils the water away into steam. The reason water beats fire most of the time is due to sheer volume. The Golden Sun games are good example of this since Mercury (water) is effective against Mars (fire) and vise versa.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

snip

Well, Dark is mistranslated from the original, Dark types are actually "Evil" types, and Ghost types are weak to them, if I'm remembering correctly,because of Ghosts being Spirit type, and Spirits in Japan are the good pacifist type, while Oni are the stronger, affect the world,bad type, add onto that that depending on accent, they're also "Evil", and you've got your reason.(It's been a long time though, I may be completely butchering their cultural history and language)

Dragon is explained as being strong against itself because again, Dragons are one of the strongest Spirits in their mythology, with very few things besides other Dragons being able to harm them, none of which humans are able to get ahold of. Then the Fairy type came along....

And there's only a handful of Fire-types that have body temperatures high enough to instantly turn water into steam, the rest have to put alot of effort to make themselves do that with their abilities.

Finally, Fighting being strong against Normal is due to the idea that the Fighting types are constantly improving themselves and not relying on innate abilities that have a ceiling, which Normal-types kinda have to do.

Most of the confusion arises from localization and language barriers though, as well as a dash of censorship, can't have kids be playing an obviously satanic game glorifying the fighting of defenseless little animals that can also be EVIL.

That's actually some rather intriguing information, thank you. That does explain quite a lot for me. I'm still not sure why the Fairy type is strong against Dragon, but seeing as it was added almost purely for balancing purposes, I don't know if there was actually any logic to it. Your explanation of Fire vs. Water makes sense, but the scenario I was imagining was something more along the lines of a Flamethrower colliding with a Water Gun. Of course, since that could only really happen in the anime, I suppose it's a moot point.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I think there was one in FFIV that copied your every attack only with much more power so he basically killed you every time you hit him or wiped you out if you used an aoe attack on him. The trick to beating him easily was simply do absolutely nothing and you win after a few rounds. It wasnt immediately obvious that this is what his weakness was but fairly logical took me a little while to figure it out more of a puzzle boss I suppose but I enjoyed it, guess while its unexplained it is foreshadowing the solution.

I remember that fight, it was when you switch from dark knight to paladin so it was a fight against yourself. Not immediately obvious but I still enjoyed it.

I did not actually mean that one but thats another puzzle fight thats similar just not as brutal as the Gogo one, I also enjoyed it (loved FFIV).

Are you sure that was FF4? Sounds like the Gogo fight to get Mimic Job in FF5.

Your right it was V not IV havent played the games in so long and I played I to V back to back so some bits blended together.

 

[sXeth]

I think there was one in FFIV that copied your every attack only with much more power so he basically killed you every time you hit him or wiped you out if you used an aoe attack on him. The trick to beating him easily was simply do absolutely nothing and you win after a few rounds. It wasnt immediately obvious that this is what his weakness was but fairly logical took me a little while to figure it out more of a puzzle boss I suppose but I enjoyed it, guess while its unexplained it is foreshadowing the solution.

I remember that fight, it was when you switch from dark knight to paladin so it was a fight against yourself. Not immediately obvious but I still enjoyed it.

I did not actually mean that one but thats another puzzle fight thats similar just not as brutal as the Gogo one, I also enjoyed it (loved FFIV).

Are you sure that was FF4? Sounds like the Gogo fight to get Mimic Job in FF5.

Your right it was V not IV havent played the games in so long and I played I to V back to back so some bits blended together.

Yeah, the Dark Knight/Paladin fight at least was sort of implied in the narrative.

I got stuck on Gogo for awhile trying to trick him by attacking myself or casting death spells at myself to make him suicide, which seemed like a more obvious solution.

 

[pearcinator]

Ganon is a couple of Zelda games gets distracted by casting the fishing rod or something similar.

Also, you can use the bottle swipe to play 'tennis' instead of a sword if you're skilled enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYhkBA7VeoY[/youtube]

I love little tricks like that to beat bosses.

 

[momijirabbit]

Final Fantasy 10 had a boss called Evrae Altana. The game never tells you, but it is afflicted with the zombie status, which causes healing spells and items to damage you.

Throw two Phoenix Downs at it and it's dead.

I think that's also something he can do to you, or maybe it was another Boss, I don't know. Anyway, he turns your party members Undead and then starts casting Healing spells on you or something, I can't remember exactly.

That's

Spoiler: FFX Spoiler

Yunalesca

you're thinking of. Half of her attacks will zombify a character or the whole party, which makes healing next to impossible. Yes you could continually cure it in order to heal, but she also has Mega-Death which will instantly kill every character that isn't a zombie.

Basically it's a ***** of a fight.

It could be Seymour's third form, he hits a party member with "Lance of Atrophy" which inflicts Zombie then follows up by casting Full Life on them, which kills them instantly.

Speaking of bullshit bosses from FFX, Sanctuary Guardian anybody?

 

[Arslan Aladeen]

How about Psycho Mantis from the original Metal Gear Solid? I mean, before the Colonel calls and tells you to do so, who would actually think to switch the player slots of the controller. Not sure why he can't read the player 2 slot, but whatever. I heard You can beat him without switching, but it just seems much easier to do it the regular way.

 

[Lotet]

Well I should probably give a spoiler warning for this one, so here goes. Beware: this is a MASSIVE SPOILER for the game "Super Mario Brothers", so if you haven't played that one yet, you should probably skip this post.

Spoiler

The giant turtle dinosaur king thing's weakness is an Italian plumber jumping on his head repeatedly. Yeah.

I bet he never saw THAT one coming.

Which game does that happen in? Certainly none of the games I've finished.

 

[LimitedPunctuation]

In Final Fantasy VII, after you've been imprisoned near the gold saucer, you play solely as Barret for a bit and have to battle his old best friend, Dyne.
A few hours earlier in the game, there was an enemy that dropped "bomb arm"s when they died.
Throw a bomb arm at Dyne and it one hits him. This isn't hinted at or explained at all.