Uniforms: The Key to equality?

[Burnouts3s3]

So, there's been a lot of talk of representing females so they do not objectify women. And, there have been many complaints that the majority of females wear costumes that look rather... skimpy.

However, perhaps a simple design aesthetic will help lessen the gender gap.

The solution: Uniforms.

Spoiler

By using the same uniforms for both men and women, we can promote equality in the team showing that both men and women are equal and have equal status.

Does that mean everybody wins?

 

[Burnouts3s3]

Wait, do you mean IRL (like the military and/or school) or comics (like you have pictured)?

Comics and video games.

 

[madwarper]

The solution: Uniforms.

Spoiler

Are you really sure that's a picture you want to use? Because the thing about uniforms is that have to be worn uniformly.
As I see, there are 4 males with the zipper up to their necks, and one female with the zipper at half-mast, cleavage on display.

 

[Burnouts3s3]

The solution: Uniforms.

Spoiler

Are you really sure that's a picture you want to use? Because the thing about uniforms is that have to be worn uniformly.
As I see, there are 4 males with the zipper up to their necks, and one female with the zipper at half-mast, cleavage on display.

Then perhaps, we should demand that the uniforms are zipped all the way up. With Uniforms, you it's easier to see how women are objectified and show how uniforms should be worn, as in, they should be zipped all the way up.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hmmm...an idea.

Also, uniforms, if done well, can be cool. Tell which side is which and all.

OTOH, if the problem is "costume designers keep putting women in skimpy costumes", the solution is to get them to stop doing that, doesn't mean uniforms are needed.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I've bred a dislike for uniforms since school. They promote as much equality as they promote a lack of individuality. You do not have my sword, my bow nor my axe for this.

 

[dyre]

Nah, I like seeing female characters dressed in skimpy clothing the same way I like seeing actual females dressed in skimpy clothing. That is to say, I like seeing them in tastefully attractive clothing as long as the situation allows it and it doesn't go against character (e.g., I found Samara's cleavage to be incredibly offputting, considering she's supposed to be a by-the-books, super-serious bringer of justice).

Fuck uniforms!

 

[lacktheknack]

What's easier: Getting devs to use modest uniforms across the board, or getting devs to give women normal clothing?

Hint: It's the simpler one using less coordination.

 

[Radeonx]

I think that's kind of dumb. All that does is reduce variation in character design, which is nothing but a bad thing.
Also, this:

You don't need a uniform to design a female character that isn't objectified. Just draw a character. Not a character that needs to inform you that you are looking at a woman. Simply a character.

Uniforms is just an unnecessary solution to an issue that isn't really that hard to solve.

 

[Schmeiser]

What's wrong with a sexy lady getting her freakin hooters out, nerd?

Pretty much except the nerd part, i see women all around me IRL that dress skimpier and sluttier than most video game characters. Do they "objectify" themselves on purpose?

Some devs make normal female characters with normal clothes other go to the extreme, i just don't see the problem. We're all objectified anyway

 

[Vault101]

Ummmhmmmm

Well let me say one thing, when you DO have uniforms it's REALLY important you treat them equally

Uniforms aren't a fix for this kind if thing as they can be "adjusted" to "excentuate" certain features or be a type if bizarre fetish

Unless you meant IRL...in that case...whaaaaaa???

 

[geK0]

Aren't super hero teams supposed to be diverse and interesting? I don't feel like there's enough variety in uniformed teams, and honestly I was a little disappointed when I first saw the uniforms instead of outfits inspired by each character's original costume.

 

[Roxor]

The problem with uniforms is that they don't get applied uniformly. In particular, school uniforms, which typically consist of one outfit for the males and another for the females. When I was in high-school, it was grey pants, white shirt for the boys, and green skirt and white shirt for the girls, with black shoes and a green jumper common to both. If it were actually uniform, it would have been a single outfit for both.

 

[KaZuYa]

To be quite frank covering everyone up in the same drab uniform is actually detrimental to women and there are very obvious real life examples. You ask any fashion designer especially the female ones and they will tell you a woman's sex appeal empowers her over men and dressing to emphasis her sexuality within subtle boundaries work's to her advantage because men even very intelligent ones are influenced by it even if they think they are not.

There's absolutely nothing wrong or sexist with a glimpse of flesh or a slight cleavage it's when you start putting women in ridiculous skimpy outfits for no reason but to be ogled then it's not acceptable or artistically merited.

 

[Spiridion]

Besides the fact that that seems fairly impossible to coordinate... I feel a (well-designed) character's appearance can communicate a lot about a character, and uniforms would limit that. Also, there are many settings where characters would simply have no reason to wear uniforms. Having said that, I would love if, say, men and women had more standardized attire(read: no cleavage windows) in games where wearing uniforms does make sense.

Actually Fetishism is objectification...

Actually, objectification in a social context involves treating a person as a thing, viewing them in regards to their use to you and denying them their basic agency/dignity as a being.

Sexual fetishism is a fixation with objects/body parts/situations that are not common thought of as being sexual in nature.

So, yeah, they're different things. Although it is possible that a fetish can involve objectification, that would depend on the individual. They're not mutually inclusive.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Ugh... Did you have to use those awful Fox 'X-Men' films as examples of uniforms? To quote Scott: "Sorry, Logan. Superheroes wear costumes. And quite frankly, all the black leather is making people nervous". I'm tempted to disagree on principle...

...but instead I'll just disagree for the reasons most people above have done so. You don't solve objectification with - pardon the pun - uniformity. You address objectification (which is, as others have pointed out, not the same thing as fetishism by any means, although Spiridion clarifies that it also can be) by looking at men and women as individuals, with their own personality traits that may or may not be expressed through their apparel.

And, you look a character's given role, relative to the tone of the game/story. I think Dead Of Alive (which - case in point - seems to objectify and fetishize) is an increasingly creepy game series, yet its penchant for nurses outfits and bikinis kinda sorta fits the game's clearly Fruit Loops tone.

So regardless of whether it's a unique outfit or a uniform, whether it fits the role and the tone is the only thing that matters.

And now I'm going to wash my eyes - and my soul - of those Fox X-Men stills...

 

[PirateRose]

You would have to have the uniform designed in a way to hide breasts, and with the first pic, remove the pecs and abs from the male uniforms. Either require the women to cut their hair, or the men to grow their hair out, and make the hair style uniform. Enforce as much physical gender ambiguity as possible.

Then make everyone address each other in gender neutral terms.

Simple putting men and women into kinda similar uniforms isn't enough. If they are still allowed to continue all the social gender signifiers physically and verbally, inequality will remain.

However, how someone looks isn't the real problem. It's what society and culture dictates for gender and how people look.

 

[DrOswald]

This is a bad idea on a purely practical level, especially in video games. In a highly visual, narrative light work (90% of all video games) the first rule of character design is to make your characters visually interesting. This means visually distinctive. Uniforms, by their very nature, harm that goal. If everyone in your main cast looks the same you have failed as a character designer.

 

[Saetha]

Yeeaaaah, no. It may seem like a good idea in theory, but art should never be held to an immutable standard like this. You can't just come up with an idea and apply it uniformly (Pardon the pun) to every piece of art and entertainment, it limits creative freedom. And I don't mean "Why don't you just let them make women who run around in glorified bikinis?" I mean, even devs who put their female characters in fine and sensible costumes would be subject to this too, when they have no reason to be. Not to mention "team outfits" would just look silly in a game like, say, the Walking Dead. This is the censorship social justice types told us wouldn't happen.

 

[cypher-raige]

Well, I don't even...wow. Here's a shocking truth, you might wanna sit down first: men and women are different. It's quite a shock, I know.

I find it funny that the same people who advocate diversity and the same people who want to eradicate diversity.