University Backs Down Over Firefly Poster Protest

Pyode

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Jul 1, 2009
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Well, it's good to see that free speech still wins out occasionally. I don't know how thrilled I am though, considering it should never have been an issue in the first place.

Andy Chalk said:
...which I guess puts him firmly on the right wing.
No, not really.

This isn't the place to explain in detail but, in simple terms, Libertarians are liberal on social issues(support gay rights, pro choice, etc) and conservative in terms of government size (low taxes, limited [if any] corporate regulation, etc).
 

Blackout62

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Dec 24, 2008
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Zhukov said:
Incidentally, was anyone else imagining Mr Baldwin's rather eloquent bit of writing being read in the voice of Jayne Cobb? So many big words and complex sentences.
What other voice would I imagine it read in?
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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ike42 said:
Two things: One, great they put the poster back up, now they should fire that overzealous glorified mall-cop that started the thing in the first place.

Two, what's with the comment about leftism from Baldwin? As far as I can tell it's the right wing that's usually trying to clamp down on free speech. While I'm mostly moderate with views that swing towards both ends of the spectrum I have to take a little offense at that implication. The right wing is the one that's trying to systematically destroy the first amendment by making the claim that there should be no separation of church and state and burning books such as The Catcher in the Rye (seriously why was this piece of crap banned?). It just seems like a a misdirected swing at the left.
Because in America you just attribute things you don't like to whatever political viewpoint you don't claim you ascribe to.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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ike42 said:
Two, what's with the comment about leftism from Baldwin? As far as I can tell it's the right wing that's usually trying to clamp down on free speech. While I'm mostly moderate with views that swing towards both ends of the spectrum I have to take a little offense at that implication.
Vilify the opposition, whether true or not.
 

Xanadu84

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Apr 9, 2008
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ike42 said:
Two, what's with the comment about leftism from Baldwin? As far as I can tell it's the right wing that's usually trying to clamp down on free speech. While I'm mostly moderate with views that swing towards both ends of the spectrum I have to take a little offense at that implication. The right wing is the one that's trying to systematically destroy the first amendment by making the claim that there should be no separation of church and state and burning books such as The Catcher in the Rye (seriously why was this piece of crap banned?). It just seems like a a misdirected swing at the left.
Welcome to shitstorm that is contemporary American politics. Baldwins comments, though erroneous (From here on, im just going to state all my opinions as facts for simplicity) are consistent with his Libertarianism. He counts as a conservative, like republicans, but many Libertarians seem to consider Republicans crap compared to Democrats slightly worse shit. Libertarians are split here: Most count themselves as republican because its either have influence over one of the major parties and try to change it from within, or be a tiny minority that manages to be completely inconsequential unless Ron Paul is presently talking.

Basically, you have Democrates, who are Socially permissive, economically restrictive. For personal choices, do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone, stay out of peoples private affairs, and leave religion out of politics. Gay marriage is fine, Science should progress, abortion is between you and your doctor, and show no preference to any religion. If the government gets involved, its to prevent private individuals from restricting a persons social choice. Economically, your looking at a more Keynesian approach. Heavier taxes, more regulation focused on the common good, a directed approach.

Republicans are the opposite. They are more socially restrictive, and more economically permissive, Getting involved in private life, enforcing values, and not getting involved when a private individual tries to limit another persons freedom. This is the mainstream of Americas Conservatives, and the social restrictiveness has lead to the loudest and most pushy of Christians to side with the Conservatives. Economically, they believe that the, "Invisible hand" of the market will do all the regulation needed: Anything that is harmful to the common good will be squashed by people no longer buying there product. How does this stop pollution? Exploitation of limited resources? Focusing on one niche of the market to the detriment of people who arn't in that market? Other shady business dealings? The answer is Magic, and a pigheaded belief that no effort needs to be taken for the world to be fair. Because bad things only happen to bad people, and the wealthy always deserve their wealth.

Then there's Libertarians. Libertarians are plain old permissive to the extreme, with a twist: The government is always bad. No effort needs to be made to give people social freedom. Any attempt to protect the socially downtrodden is really just an attempt to restrict the private individuals doing the trodding. And to be fair, government can be pretty inefficient. So in Baldwins case, The professor should be able to post anything, of any nature, and if people don't let him, it is because of the government overreaching its boundaries. Since the Left is known for protecting the downtrodden, he blames the left for trying to protect the students, to their detriment. The logic is that The left think they are protecting people, Libertarians think that people should protect themselves, and the righteous will overcome unless the guv'ment meddles.

Also, he probably blames the left because blaming one of the 2 major parties is the current favorite pastime of Americans, the left compose more of the educated public, particularly in the present system of schools, and only the most extreme of Libertarians don't at least try to cozy up to republicans in hope of getting their voice heard.
 

bunji

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Nov 14, 2010
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If you dont get the comment about Leftism killing free speech you should take a trip to Sweden. Anything that isnt pro-communism or that is even the least bit critical of leftist sacred cows (multiculturalism for example) gets censored from basically all kinds of media. Once I said that it was good that we now have a party that is critical of our immigration policy (which is basically let everyone who wants come in, nevermind regulations) if only for the fact that they spawn a debate, while i was shopping, and the girl working the cash register instantly called me a "goddamn right wing racist asshole" and that people like me shouldnt be allowed to vote. True story.

For example, this comment would have been branded racist and censored from all newspapers sites. Can you spot why?

Edit; Not saying rightwingers cant clamp down on freespeech but at least proper fascists have the common curtesy of letting you know when you arent allowed to say anything they dont like.
 

ike42

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Feb 25, 2009
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Xanadu84 said:
ike42 said:
Two, what's with the comment about leftism from Baldwin? As far as I can tell it's the right wing that's usually trying to clamp down on free speech. While I'm mostly moderate with views that swing towards both ends of the spectrum I have to take a little offense at that implication. The right wing is the one that's trying to systematically destroy the first amendment by making the claim that there should be no separation of church and state and burning books such as The Catcher in the Rye (seriously why was this piece of crap banned?). It just seems like a a misdirected swing at the left.
Welcome to shitstorm that is contemporary American politics. Baldwins comments, though erroneous (From here on, im just going to state all my opinions as facts for simplicity) are consistent with his Libertarianism. He counts as a conservative, like republicans, but many Libertarians seem to consider Republicans crap compared to Democrats slightly worse shit. Libertarians are split here: Most count themselves as republican because its either have influence over one of the major parties and try to change it from within, or be a tiny minority that manages to be completely inconsequential unless Ron Paul is presently talking.

Basically, you have Democrates, who are Socially permissive, economically restrictive. For personal choices, do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone, stay out of peoples private affairs, and leave religion out of politics. Gay marriage is fine, Science should progress, abortion is between you and your doctor, and show no preference to any religion. If the government gets involved, its to prevent private individuals from restricting a persons social choice. Economically, your looking at a more Keynesian approach. Heavier taxes, more regulation focused on the common good, a directed approach.

Republicans are the opposite. They are more socially restrictive, and more economically permissive, Getting involved in private life, enforcing values, and not getting involved when a private individual tries to limit another persons freedom. This is the mainstream of Americas Conservatives, and the social restrictiveness has lead to the loudest and most pushy of Christians to side with the Conservatives. Economically, they believe that the, "Invisible hand" of the market will do all the regulation needed: Anything that is harmful to the common good will be squashed by people no longer buying there product. How does this stop pollution? Exploitation of limited resources? Focusing on one niche of the market to the detriment of people who arn't in that market? Other shady business dealings? The answer is Magic, and a pigheaded belief that no effort needs to be taken for the world to be fair. Because bad things only happen to bad people, and the wealthy always deserve their wealth.

Then there's Libertarians. Libertarians are plain old permissive to the extreme, with a twist: The government is always bad. No effort needs to be made to give people social freedom. Any attempt to protect the socially downtrodden is really just an attempt to restrict the private individuals doing the trodding. And to be fair, government can be pretty inefficient. So in Baldwins case, The professor should be able to post anything, of any nature, and if people don't let him, it is because of the government overreaching its boundaries. Since the Left is known for protecting the downtrodden, he blames the left for trying to protect the students, to their detriment. The logic is that The left think they are protecting people, Libertarians think that people should protect themselves, and the righteous will overcome unless the guv'ment meddles.

Also, he probably blames the left because blaming one of the 2 major parties is the current favorite pastime of Americans, the left compose more of the educated public, particularly in the present system of schools, and only the most extreme of Libertarians don't at least try to cozy up to republicans in hope of getting their voice heard.
Wow, long answer. Someone earlier made the point that the left wing tends to side with any views of political correctness and I partly agreed saying that blame should lie more with the lawyers making everyone scared of being sued for no apparent reason. I tend to base my viewpoints on no government restriction socially at all, but regulation is required in the financial sector to keep everyone honest (which they've proved they aren't in the slightest). I just don't thin, that in this case the left wing can be blamed because they aren't really the culprit. If you read the earlier stories it's really the one security guard who had to exercise his power just so that he could feel more important than he really is. Campus cops are retarded and as I stated before, they're little more than mall cops who are actually allowed to arrest people.
 

Infernai

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Apr 14, 2009
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Wait a minute...i can't believe I'm reading this. Common sense has triumphed!? Oh, This is great. Nice to see that those Gorramned idiots backed down and let us have the poster put up, giving is some proof that every once in a while we can have Nice things.

Glad to hear this was a win!
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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Lovely, bitching has one again revoked a decision that didnt need the publicity it had.

to be honest... I didnt care that they were told to take it down. Somehow a poster telling someone how you're going to kill them doesnt exactly inspire safety and establish a comfortable environment. When we did our week of hockey in gym we didnt put up posters or videos of the best way to hit someone to cause the maximum legal amount of damage. We didnt talk about men such as Bertuzzi or Cooke or anyone on the Philadelphia Flyers and say "play like them cause its clearly working out" with heroic reverence.

but then again, I dont get hte massive hard-on I think (some) other people get over firefly (despite watching it), so that may have taken away some of the bias that probably interfered with reading the article.