University Threatens Criminal Charges Over Firefly Poster

[ardencabbel]

If you're going to use liberal as an insult, take the time to understand what it means.

Lioberals support freedom. Liberalism means the core belief that societal interferance in personal affairs is kept to a minimum. You're confusing 'liberalism' with 'conservativism', the belief that government should act to maintain the societal status quo.

Actually liberals aren't carte blanche supporters of freedom. It is liberals who want to further restrict gun ownership rights. They support affirmative action, which restricts the freedom to hire or accept the most qualified candidates if you don't have enough people from a certain group. Liberals want to restrict hate speech (I am not against what they are trying to do there), which restricts a persons freedom of speech.

So I am sorry, but your statement is wrong. Both sides support freedom, just in different areas.

 

[ardencabbel]

I don't actually find myself siding with one side in this issue. I can see the reasoning behind both parties. But it is interesting to think about. Personally I think that both sides are right and wrong.

 

[DracoSuave]

If you're going to use liberal as an insult, take the time to understand what it means.

Lioberals support freedom. Liberalism means the core belief that societal interferance in personal affairs is kept to a minimum. You're confusing 'liberalism' with 'conservativism', the belief that government should act to maintain the societal status quo.

Actually liberals aren't carte blanche supporters of freedom. It is liberals who want to further restrict gun ownership rights. They support affirmative action, which restricts the freedom to hire or accept the most qualified candidates if you don't have enough people from a certain group. Liberals want to restrict hate speech (I am not against what they are trying to do there), which restricts a persons freedom of speech.

So I am sorry, but your statement is wrong. Both sides support freedom, just in different areas.

None of those are actual liberal stances.

Liberalism has nothing to do with gun control. Affrimative action is the province of egalitarianism, which may or may not be liberalism. Liberalism has nothing to do with restricting hate speech. These are social reformist policies.

Liberalism has to do with and only with governmental policy. If a policy seeks to restrict the individual, it is not a liberal policy.

Just because your country permits pundits and propagandists to misuse terminology doesn't mean you should.

 

[t3h br0th3r]

Despite taking public funds, public universities still operate as privet institutions and therefore can have whatever rules they want, as long as they don't violate the letter of the law.

If they wanted to have a rule where all students and staff were required to wear orange pants and red jumpsuits then they could.

Displaying that particular line crossed the line (hurr hurr hurr, pun).If that prof had been smart enough to keep the poster inside his office, where he could expect the vast majority of people going in either know him or be able and willing to listen to an explanation about said poster.

by having it up on the outside of his office means perfect strangers, more than likely non-nerdy strangers, will pass by his door, see the odd quote, think that guy is nuts and then re=think bringing their child and tuition dollar to the university. the same goes for the fascism poster.

I am not talking about banning anything, I am simply talking about professionalism. Its something you gain with time and this guy had more than enough of that to not only avoid his first mistake (displaying the poster) but how to handle it when he messes up and avoid the second mistake (the fascism poster). This prof was incredibly unprofessional, thus keeping me from feeling sorry for him.

I feel sorry for your education that you never got to go to a school that had such expression out in the open.

It's actually really common, particularily in the arts faculties, to do stuff like this. ANd it has nothing to do with 'nerdy' or not. The same rule, similiarly misapplied, would cause SHakespeare quotes to be banned.

It's a fucking dramatics arts class showing a character quoting a line. It's as 100% appropriate as having a periodic table outside a chemistry room.



The security chief's job is to assess threats. If a security chief believes a poster from pop culture construes a threat, then said security chief is demonstrably incompetent at the most fundamental part of their job: Identifying threats. They should not continue to have that job, or receive proper training in what a threat is and is not.


Also notice that discussion of 'professionalism' is irrelevant to the security chief's job. They are not management. They have no say in what is or is not professional conduct, or what is or is not to be displayed. They are there to stop threats. Nothing more.

-snip-

That's a crying shame, dude! Man... talk about bleeding heart liberal.

If you're going to use liberal as an insult, take the time to understand what it means.

Lioberals support freedom. Liberalism means the core belief that societal interferance in personal affairs is kept to a minimum. You're confusing 'liberalism' with 'conservativism', the belief that government should act to maintain the societal status quo.

Lets not get personal here, may both of our actions here be as cool yet refined as that hat of yours.

that security cheif was out of line, I agree with you on that. all she really had to do was politely ask the guy to put the poster inside of his office and this never would have gone past the U of W school paper.

Having quotes from characters is all well and good but everything has a time and place. chemists always have periotic tables up but not the chemical combination to stink bomb fluid or itching powder.

this prof was dancing on the line like an annoying high school kid and he got burned. why feel sorry for him.

If it were shakespeare then this arguement would be in vald since most people can't read shakespearian (Titus Andronicus contains a mom joke most people miss entirely). Firefly is easily understandable and seeing a pic of a guy with srss business face talking about mercin someone face to face could be unsettling to a parent (aka 4-5 year income generator) taking a tour of the facilities.

and yes, tours do generate business for colleges (at least in the US). they are often tie breakers since they allow possible stdents (4-5 year income generators) to 'see themselves' on a campus. If i saw that without context (only seen one ep of firefly in my life) it wouldn't be a plus to my perseption of the school.

Also , bob, if you have an issue with us liberals then you are on the wrong forum. there are europeans aplenty here, and what is liberal to us Americans is between moderate and moderate consevite to them.

 

[DracoSuave]

Lets not get personal here, may both of our actions here be as cool yet refined as that hat of yours.

that security cheif was out of line, I agree with you on that. all she really had to do was politely ask the guy to put the poster inside of his office and this never would have gone past the U of W school paper.

Wrong. The correct course of action in this situation is for her to do absolutely nothing. The professor is not commiting a crime, and is not enacting a threat against the school. Therefore, it has absolutely zero relevance to her job.

It is not the place of a police chief to judge what is acceptable display or not when said display does not construe a legitimate threat. She is blatantly incompetent. She has no ability to discern legitimate threats. The university needs to take some sort of action against this. An appropriate response is to demand either an outline of the threat assessment training improvements the security department will entail, or a letter of resignation.

Let's make this clear: She is threatening criminal charges over this. His posters do not construe a crime. How is she NOT incompetant?

Having quotes from characters is all well and good but everything has a time and place. chemists always have periotic tables up but not the chemical combination to stink bomb fluid or itching powder.

And a quote from Malcolm Reynolds is not in any way instructions on how to murder. This is more like having the periodic table, but leaving out arsenic and uranium because those elements could be used to kill someone.

this prof was dancing on the line like an annoying high school kid and he got burned. why feel sorry for him.

I don't feel sorry for him. Nor is he acting childish. Freedom of speech is serious fucking business. Moreover, when the curtailing of free speech is from an authoritarian figure threatening criminal charges over non-illegal activity, then, yes, absolutely, one MUST rebel. it is the ONLY adult thing to do.

If it were shakespeare then this arguement would be in vald since most people can't read shakespearian (Titus Andronicus contains a mom joke most people miss entirely). Firefly is easily understandable and seeing a pic of a guy with srss business face talking about mercin someone face to face could be unsettling to a parent (aka 4-5 year income generator) taking a tour of the facilities.

Irrelevant. It is not the police chief's job to determine what is appropriate to show on 'Bring your parent to school day.' It is their job to assess and deal with threats and disturbances. A poster is neither. No laws were broken. It is not that department's concern.

Now, if the Dean of Admissions has a problem with it, on those grounds, we'd not be having this discussion, because that's an administrative procedure as opposed to a criminal procedure

Remember that part? The woman is threatening criminal charges. You're discussing administrative policy, which has nothing to do with a woman literally threatening to use the law to curtail legal activity.

How do you not see a fundamental problem with that?

and yes, tours do generate business for colleges (at least in the US). they are often tie breakers since they allow possible stdents (4-5 year income generators) to 'see themselves' on a campus. If i saw that without context (only seen one ep of firefly in my life) it wouldn't be a plus to my perseption of the school.

Which has nothing to do with criminal charges. AND it has nothing to do with security.

This woman IS demonstrably incompetent. She has zero threat assessment skills. How is a resignation not 100% appropriate?

 

[lokiduck]

What a pack of sad, pathetic fools with nothing better to do with their time than niggle at every single little thing.
Jesus, why not install an Independent Thought Alarm while they're at it!!

One of my lecturers used to have a Jolly Roger on his door with something along the lines of 'There comes a time when every man must hoist the black flag, don a cutlass and start cutting throats!'

We loved it, the staff thought it was funny and nobody had a case of the 'Concerned Mothers' Brigade' over it.
As far as I know, it's still there, grinning at all who pass by.

Another lecturer has a sign with Sinatra on it saying 'It's Frank's world, we just live in it'.
To my knowledge, the theoretical physics department has never lodged an informal challenge to his assertion.

EDIT:

Nor has the International Relations dept.

You guys are lucky. My high school got started my junior if high school. We voted to be called the Pirates but the Hippy Parents found it "too evil" even though the school in the town over was the vikings, so we ended up being called the buccaneers. *Sigh* I hate hippies sometimes.


Course when we had a school camping trips we were allowed to fish but had to let them go after, because seeing the cute wittle fishies get killed and eaten would make the small children cry apparently.

That's hilarious- my college's teams (UCC) are known as the Pirates! At rugby and soccer etc there are actually Jolly Rogers on display, like!
That's a crying shame, dude! Man... talk about bleeding heart liberal. That's fair enough about letting the fish go, but what was the point if they didn't teach you how to prepare and cook the fish for, you know, camping in the real outdoors? Madness.

Hippies ruin stuff all the time, but so do extremists on the other side of the spectrum.
Buccaneers were just as bad as pirates. Silly hippies.

Yes D: They do. I feel self conscious eating in front of people because if it's not healthy D:

 

[ardencabbel]

If you're going to use liberal as an insult, take the time to understand what it means.

Lioberals support freedom. Liberalism means the core belief that societal interferance in personal affairs is kept to a minimum. You're confusing 'liberalism' with 'conservativism', the belief that government should act to maintain the societal status quo.

Actually liberals aren't carte blanche supporters of freedom. It is liberals who want to further restrict gun ownership rights. They support affirmative action, which restricts the freedom to hire or accept the most qualified candidates if you don't have enough people from a certain group. Liberals want to restrict hate speech (I am not against what they are trying to do there), which restricts a persons freedom of speech.

So I am sorry, but your statement is wrong. Both sides support freedom, just in different areas.

None of those are actual liberal stances.

Liberalism has nothing to do with gun control. Affrimative action is the province of egalitarianism, which may or may not be liberalism. Liberalism has nothing to do with restricting hate speech. These are social reformist policies.

Liberalism has to do with and only with governmental policy. If a policy seeks to restrict the individual, it is not a liberal policy.

Just because your country permits pundits and propagandists to misuse terminology doesn't mean you should.

Terminology that has become part of the definition of the two biggest sides in United States politics. As this is about a United States university, I feel my appropriation is fitting.

 

[Whytewulf]

So his next poster should include:

Take my love, take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care, I'm still free
You can't take the sky from me
Take me out to the black
Tell them I ain't comin' back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me
There's no place I can be
Since I found Serenity
But you can't take the sky from me...

I agree that should be his new poster. Hey and you know what also works. How about calling the guiy and asking him if he wouldn't mind removing it, before just tearing it down. Wow, have people forgotten how to have a conversation about things.

I personally think Universities post anything that dang well please most of the time. Isn't history full of awesome "violent" quotes. What if it was William Wallace from Braveheart.

 

[t3h br0th3r]

Lets not get personal here, may both of our actions here be as cool yet refined as that hat of yours.

that security cheif was out of line, I agree with you on that. all she really had to do was politely ask the guy to put the poster inside of his office and this never would have gone past the U of W school paper.

Wrong. The correct course of action in this situation is for her to do absolutely nothing. The professor is not commiting a crime, and is not enacting a threat against the school. Therefore, it has absolutely zero relevance to her job.

It is not the place of a police chief to judge what is acceptable display or not when said display does not construe a legitimate threat. She is blatantly incompetent. She has no ability to discern legitimate threats. The university needs to take some sort of action against this. An appropriate response is to demand either an outline of the threat assessment training improvements the security department will entail, or a letter of resignation.

Let's make this clear: She is threatening criminal charges over this. His posters do not construe a crime. How is she NOT incompetant?

Having quotes from characters is all well and good but everything has a time and place. chemists always have periotic tables up but not the chemical combination to stink bomb fluid or itching powder.

And a quote from Malcolm Reynolds is not in any way instructions on how to murder. This is more like having the periodic table, but leaving out arsenic and uranium because those elements could be used to kill someone.

this prof was dancing on the line like an annoying high school kid and he got burned. why feel sorry for him.

I don't feel sorry for him. Nor is he acting childish. Freedom of speech is serious fucking business. Moreover, when the curtailing of free speech is from an authoritarian figure threatening criminal charges over non-illegal activity, then, yes, absolutely, one MUST rebel. it is the ONLY adult thing to do.

If it were shakespeare then this arguement would be in vald since most people can't read shakespearian (Titus Andronicus contains a mom joke most people miss entirely). Firefly is easily understandable and seeing a pic of a guy with srss business face talking about mercin someone face to face could be unsettling to a parent (aka 4-5 year income generator) taking a tour of the facilities.

Irrelevant. It is not the police chief's job to determine what is appropriate to show on 'Bring your parent to school day.' It is their job to assess and deal with threats and disturbances. A poster is neither. No laws were broken. It is not that department's concern.

Now, if the Dean of Admissions has a problem with it, on those grounds, we'd not be having this discussion, because that's an administrative procedure as opposed to a criminal procedure

Remember that part? The woman is threatening criminal charges. You're discussing administrative policy, which has nothing to do with a woman literally threatening to use the law to curtail legal activity.

How do you not see a fundamental problem with that?

and yes, tours do generate business for colleges (at least in the US). they are often tie breakers since they allow possible stdents (4-5 year income generators) to 'see themselves' on a campus. If i saw that without context (only seen one ep of firefly in my life) it wouldn't be a plus to my perseption of the school.

Which has nothing to do with criminal charges. AND it has nothing to do with security.

This woman IS demonstrably incompetent. She has zero threat assessment skills. How is a resignation not 100% appropriate?

...oh. criminal charges.

f that b, she must have lost her ever lovin mind. fire that prof but don't make him a felon or some shit.

 

[Bravo 21]

Where can I get either or both of these posters, or should I just make one myself? I support the professor anyways, somewhat entertaining that they are limiting his free speech about a political belief that is know for limiting free speech.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

I'm a huge fan of Firefly, but this teacher is so sh¨£ gu¨¡.

Put it on your 'my face space book', not on your office door.

Then it gets removed from those sites by a mod, because some viewers might interpet it as threat to them.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I think the complainer was being a dick, but considering his job and criminal record is on the line, I'd have offered a compromise, by simply folding the bottom few inches of the poster up and behind the rest.

No text, no problem, and he gets to keep his brooding eyecandy on the wall.

 

[[zonking great]]

Jesus fucking howler monkey christ. THE ENTIRE AMERICAN DREAM IS BASED ON GUNS AND TITTIES. ANYBODY WHO SAYS ANYTHING ELSE IS A FUCKING LIAR. Ok, now that we have that out of the way, I can go into some detail.

It's just like I said with regards to Australia once. "For a nation populated by the descendants of criminals and their gaelors they are a surprisingly squeamish people".
So, I suppose "For a people who built their economy on guns and titties, they are surprisingly prude". Yeah. I'm not even making sense anymore. THAT is how fucking retarded I think that woman Lisa A. Walters is.

Doesn't that ***** have anything better to do? You know, like..I dunno...FIGHT CRIME LIKE SHE WAS HIRED TO DO!

 

[Smurf McSmurfington]

Hooray for a combination of stupidity, a lack of a sense of humour and batshit lunacy on their part.
And people wonder why I loathe people in general because of their intellect, or rather a lack thereof...

 

[Urgh76]

Apparently the college heads can't quite grasp the concept of irony lol

But I mean come on, if it was junior high or even high school then the school might have a better argument because people are under 18 and all, but university?! come on people!! stop coddling 19+ year olds who don't want to be coddled...

Have you been in university? they say they don't want to take the easy way, but that is ALL they ever want to do.

And age doesn't matter; being 19+ doesn't make them automatically exempt from being dumb. Many of them will STILL believe anything a professor says. In one of my classes, the professor said, "I am going to show you that everything you thought you knew is wrong." and gave us a quiz. I chose all of the least likely answers because I figured, "Prof said I don't know it, so what I believe must be wrong and what I think is wrong must be right." Doing that I only got 2 wrong. Everyone else only got 2 right. This is a senior level class; we're all older than 19. Our instructor basically told us what we needed to do, and people still got it wrong.

That..... that actually sounds pretty awesome, and is something that I would do as a professor xD

 

[jawakiller]

Rage Against The Machine MOTHER FUCKERS!!...

...Oh, and Firefly rocks. just thought I'd add that.
And what he's worried about is not fascism but modern, liberal America. I think it's called a totalitarian government but I may be confusing this with a completely diffe-no, I'm right.

 

[DracoSuave]

Terminology that has become part of the definition of the two biggest sides in United States politics. As this is about a United States university, I feel my appropriation is fitting.

The fact that you refer to american politics as having two sides demonstrates the ignorance of political spectra that is indoctrinated in the American consciousness.

It's not 'The terminology used for both sides' it's 'The terminology used by propagandists to make people think there are two sides so that those that support a particular issue's stance strongly will be forced to identify with other issues they do not agree with but weakly.'

The bicamerality of American political discourse, by media, and the pundits, is a sign of ignorance and is a central flaw in the American system. In other words... it's flat. Out. Wrong.

And things that are wrong should not be treated as correct or valid.


The issue is simple. It is an issue of an arm of the state attempting to overstep its jurisdiction and impose itself on the legal freedoms of a citizen. Period. There's no 'conservative' vs 'liberal' agenda here. It's someone threatening to press criminal charges for a legal act, and use her authority outside of her perview. She has no right to do what she is doing. Her job is to stop criminal action, not judge appropriate artistic expression. Her job is to police crime, not to police what the Arts faculty deems as appropriate for their campus. If the rest of the arts faculty, including the dean, has no problem, then it is not her business.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

A firefly poster isn't going to help me learn. Nor is a poster that talks about killing me.

It's not about you. Nothing in this is about you. This is about not having a Professor suffering criminal charges by an incompetent bully.

And it may surprise you but most people out there wouldn't know the quote nor the series it's referencing.

I don't know it either. Never liked Firefly. Problem?