Unless

Nuke_em_05

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2009
828
0
21
But, you see, there must be a bad guy manipulating the otherwise decent masses! There has to be one singular evil entity making big bad decisions!

If not, it is just a bunch of ignorant everymen making a lot of small bad decisions!

That can't be, because I'm an everyman!

Evil must come from small groups or individuals with tons of power: "The 1%", "Corporations", "Washington", "Big Media", "Videogames", "Religious Fanatics". That way none of the responsibility lies with me! We can't hold everyone responsible, because I'm part of everyone!

(hehe, captcha: "lie low")
 

krellen

Unrepentant Obsidian Fanboy
Jan 23, 2009
224
0
0
Swifteye said:
it was about a grouch adopting children and becoming a nice guy through having them (does that ever really happen?) around.
Yeah. It was called Duck Tales.
 

Swifteye

New member
Apr 15, 2010
1,079
0
0
krellen said:
Swifteye said:
it was about a grouch adopting children and becoming a nice guy through having them (does that ever really happen?) around.
Yeah. It was called Duck Tales.
No I mean in real life. I know it's happens in cartoons like. A lot. But in real life. Has that ever really happened.
 

octafish

New member
Apr 23, 2010
5,137
0
0
Did anyone expect any different. I mean business is business, and business must grow, regardless of crummies in tummies you know.
 

JackrabbitSlim

New member
Apr 15, 2009
10
0
0
MovieBob said:
Unless
pretty neighbor Audrey (Talyor Swift), a classical Manic Pixie Dream Girl
Really Bob? The movie doesn't suck enough that you have to resort to that pretentious old chesnut? The Artist was understandable but c'mon now.
 

RJ Dalton

New member
Aug 13, 2009
2,285
0
0
Swifteye said:
It's funny. When I watched the Despicable me movie a couple weeks ago I felt the same about them touting it on their poster. That movie wasn't really very good. In fact it felt like the hour long pilot to an okay cartoon show. It wasn't really about Mad scientist having super silly science slap fights it was about a grouch adopting children and becoming a nice guy through having them (does that ever really happen?) around. Ultimately its only note worthy part was those yellow pill creatures that bare a uncanny resemblance to those lego people tron bonne controlled.
I thought of them as suppository monsters.

But honestly, that really is Despicable Me's biggest problem: the kids. If it had just been a comedic punch up between an old-school mad scientist and a "hip," smartass younger villain, it would have been excellent. Instead, we got this cliche ridden piece of tripe about a man who learns how much he really cares because some kids did the puppy-dog eye trick on him. They weren't interesting, the plot was not engaging on any level and in the end the only emotion I felt for them was the wish that every one of them would die for ruining what could have been an interesting movie.
 

Odinsson

New member
Jun 11, 2011
172
0
0
RJ Dalton said:
Swifteye said:
It's funny. When I watched the Despicable me movie a couple weeks ago I felt the same about them touting it on their poster. That movie wasn't really very good. In fact it felt like the hour long pilot to an okay cartoon show. It wasn't really about Mad scientist having super silly science slap fights it was about a grouch adopting children and becoming a nice guy through having them (does that ever really happen?) around. Ultimately its only note worthy part was those yellow pill creatures that bare a uncanny resemblance to those lego people tron bonne controlled.
I thought of them as suppository monsters.

But honestly, that really is Despicable Me's biggest problem: the kids. If it had just been a comedic punch up between an old-school mad scientist and a "hip," smartass younger villain, it would have been excellent. Instead, we got this cliche ridden piece of tripe about a man who learns how much he really cares because some kids did the puppy-dog eye trick on him. They weren't interesting, the plot was not engaging on any level and in the end the only emotion I felt for them was the wish that every one of them would die for ruining what could have been an interesting movie.
This is pretty much exactly what I felt about Despicable Me. I started watching it with no context, thinking 'Hey, this looks kind of entertaining.' Then I saw the kids for the first time.

'Man, these characters are frakking irritating. I hope they don't play a big....'

'Oh gods'

'They're the focus of the whole godsdamned movie, aren't they'

'FUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

You get the idea
 

WiDEEyeDSmILes

New member
Aug 11, 2010
20
0
0
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v206329006NgXc3xG?h1=Dr.+Seuss+The+Butter+Battle+Book

The butter battle book for those that don't know
 

ciancon

Waiting patiently.....
Nov 27, 2009
612
0
0
I just watched both The Lorax and The Butter Battle Book. I'm not sure if i'd want to read that to my kids if i ever have any but they both make very good points. Dr. Seuss never fails to amaze!
 

SadakoMoose

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2009
1,200
0
41
I actually think that the choice to make a continuation or sequel or sorts to the Lorax was actually a good one, compared to just doing a straight remake. The Lorax is probably one of Dr. Seuss' best known books to date, and was already made into an animated tv special in 1972. The TV special itself is actually fairly interesting, in that it expands upon the systemic problems and consequences with the business model that the Wuncler is using, even taking a quick look at the problem of the labor market itself.

The movie itself kept me entertained, thought I will readily admit that the protagonist's motivation is a bit trite. However, I liked that it didn't try to be like the original. For a little kid just starting to think about the world around them, this movie might be a welcome first start. I'm not saying Bob is wrong to criticize the softening up of the actual villain of the story, changing it from a shared culpability to a "few bad apples", but I don't think it ruins the inherent message of conservation and naturalism as a virtue.

When Bob says that "You cannot teach an audience a lesson if you're not willing to allow for the possibility of them feeling bad about giving the wrong answer." I think he's overlooking the idea that an audience may be smart enough to take away the message without being hit over the head with agit-prop.
Then again we are talking about the man that said:

"The difference between me and most libertarians is that they start from the position that humanity, when given freedom, will use it well. I see humanity too clearly to think that is the case. Most of us are PROFOUNDLY incapable of managing ourselves. What keeps me from being a "liberal" despite this knowledge is that, while I accept this about my species... I don't really CARE. Don't misunderstand - I'm not WHOLLY self-interested. I care more about my friends, family, many other associates more than I do myself
But "humanity?" Humanity can suck an egg."

His entire perspective on humanity in general comes from a default position of distrust in it's very nature. While at our base level of instinct there are certain traits more geared toward survival than anything else, such as our tendency to hoard resources and act super paranoid around the unknown, I think that on some level man is indeed greater than beast in our ability not only to make sense of our world, but also to reinterpret it in ways that be seen as ultimately altruistic or even otherworldly. I'm not saying I have total faith in every individual I meet nor am I saying that there aren't some very messed up things happening on the Earth right now, but overall I'd say humanity is this planet's most valuable resource.
 

Furrama

New member
Jul 24, 2008
295
0
0
B Goy said:
Am I the only one who has noticed that Bob seems determined to never talk about Despicable Me seeing as that was a large part of the marketings ads and that it may be the source for his anger against the changes made about the Once-ler and townspeople?

The pull of Despicable Me was that the protagonist was a bad guy but he had his reasons and was someone who really could not be blamed for the more cruel things he did after Act 2 and 3. Seeing that, and this new thing being the popular thing at the moment, the company decided it could work again and it did, being a huge success in the box office and the company gets another victory under the belt while the world waits for Despicable Me 2.
Yeah, but Despicable Me was still not the movie promised to me by the trailer. I was hoping for a fun spy vs spy sort of thing, with a real bad guy protagonist. But no, I got a movie about Steve Carell with bad Russian accent trying to be a good dad.

If it wasn't for "It's so FLUFFY!" and the little yellow things there would be no value to that movie.
 

minuialear

New member
Jun 15, 2010
237
0
0
SadakoMoose said:
I actually think that the choice to make a continuation or sequel or sorts to the Lorax was actually a good one, compared to just doing a straight remake. The Lorax is probably one of Dr. Seuss' best known books to date, and was already made into an animated tv special in 1972. The TV special itself is actually fairly interesting, in that it expands upon the systemic problems and consequences with the business model that the Wuncler is using, even taking a quick look at the problem of the labor market itself.

The movie itself kept me entertained, thought I will readily admit that the protagonist's motivation is a bit trite. However, I liked that it didn't try to be like the original. For a little kid just starting to think about the world around them, this movie might be a welcome first start. I'm not saying Bob is wrong to criticize the softening up of the actual villain of the story, changing it from a shared culpability to a "few bad apples", but I don't think it ruins the inherent message of conservation and naturalism as a virtue.

When Bob says that "You cannot teach an audience a lesson if you're not willing to allow for the possibility of them feeling bad about giving the wrong answer." I think he's overlooking the idea that an audience may be smart enough to take away the message without being hit over the head with agit-prop.
This is a good point (that the movie can be seen as a sequel to the book, rather than a straight-up remake of it), and it's certainly true that some, having read The Lorax already or having been introduced to it in some fashion already, can pick up the subtle messages just file.

I'm still not a fan of the approach or the movie, personally, but...fair point.

Then again we are talking about the man that said:

"The difference between me and most libertarians is that they start from the position that humanity, when given freedom, will use it well. I see humanity too clearly to think that is the case. Most of us are PROFOUNDLY incapable of managing ourselves. What keeps me from being a "liberal" despite this knowledge is that, while I accept this about my species... I don't really CARE. Don't misunderstand - I'm not WHOLLY self-interested. I care more about my friends, family, many other associates more than I do myself
But "humanity?" Humanity can suck an egg."

His entire perspective on humanity in general comes from a default position of distrust in it's very nature. While at our base level of instinct there are certain traits more geared toward survival than anything else, such as our tendency to hoard resources and act super paranoid around the unknown, I think that on some level man is indeed greater than beast in our ability not only to make sense of our world, but also to reinterpret it in ways that be seen as ultimately altruistic or even otherworldly. I'm not saying I have total faith in every individual I meet nor am I saying that there aren't some very messed up things happening on the Earth right now, but overall I'd say humanity is this planet's most valuable resource.
Desire to form relationships and complex communities are also ingrained in our DNA (that was arguably the only reason humanity could survive for so long). And it's pretty hard to do either if everyone's wired to act like a prick to most other people. So yeah, there is something off about that kind of logic (I'm not going to say I trust everyone enoughto get rid of all laws ever, but it seems odd (not to mention contradictory) to state that laws are what keep irresponsible people in check.

Saying that "humanity is this planet's most valuable resource" is highly debatable, though.
 

MB202

New member
Sep 14, 2008
1,157
0
0
newguy77 said:
MB202 said:
Butter Battle
People on one side of a wall like their toast butter side up, while the other side likes butter side down (fucking weirdos). Both sides don't want the other side corrupting their side, so one side starts off by sending a guard with nothing. Other side sends a guard with a rock to throw. First side retaliates with a guy with a slingshot, and so on until they both have very "destructive" weaponry aimed at each other all for differences in ideology. The End. Obviously a story about how the Cold War was stupid.
I have to track down and read that story again...
 

irishda

New member
Dec 16, 2010
968
0
0
I liked the Lorax, albeit they could've used more Lorax in my opinion. I don't buy that the movie was any less biting in its indictment of society's interaction with nature. In fact, I'd argue that, mandatory cinematic plot points aside, the movie offers an even bolder truth with the idea that people can do terrible things without understanding it. I don't get why Bob is so insistent that the society of Thneedville in this movie be portrayed as bad instead of just being led astray. The book doesn't talk about the town the boy is from at all so I'm not sure why it's so necessary that the place he's from is filled with really bad people. And as for the main character's motivation, it does seem kind of hokey on the surface, but honestly, what else would motivate a teenage boy? Hell the best line in the movie is the Once-ler commenting,

"If a guy does something stupid once, hey, it's cause he's a guy. But if a guy does something stupid twice, it's for a girl."
 

Screamarie

New member
Mar 16, 2008
1,055
0
0
Let's see if I can get this to work right....

Since some people were saying they never read the book I present to you...

I remember the Lorax from when I was a child. The book was big compared to other children's books. It was really tall and I had a hard time holding it. The copy we had was old, I have no idea where it came from but the cover was torn something awful and if I remember correctly it was very plain and I think it had the picture of the Lurkim on it. I really didn't understand it (I was a like 4 years old when I read this the first time so yeah, I didn't get it) but I remember having this haunting feeling for a while afterwards.

It was dark, but not necessarily scary, just...sad. I felt so bad for the Lorax. I was so confused as I had never read a book before with anything but a happy ending. It was almost as if the book had betrayed me and I avoided it for a long time after that. I would find it from time to time as I got older and I understood it more. It was always sad...but for some reason it's one of my fondest memories of books.

So to find out that the Lorax movie betrays that makes me rather annoyed. I still think it'll be a good movie, but it won't be true to the source which is almost as sad as the Lorax being lifted away.
 

kaizen2468

New member
Nov 20, 2009
366
0
0
I read the rest of the article expecting it to rhyme the same way the intro did...ruined it for me.
 

ThunderCavalier

New member
Nov 21, 2009
1,475
0
0
So, essentially, Hollywood said:

"No, no, we can't have deep symbolism and logic in our Lorax movie. That might cause our audience to think, which is completely impossible after they've had their brains diluted by the Transformers and Twilight movies! Besides, we're not making an Oscar movie; we're making a Seuss movie. Everyone will watch that, regardless of what we put in. Hey, someone Google a couple of children movies in the past; we'll use them as the entire structure."
 

SnakeoilSage

New member
Sep 20, 2011
1,211
0
0
Seuss was just a genius, in my opinion. Fully aware of what he was doing even as he made up some of the craziest words to ever be spoken. And he targeted the right audience, giving kids their first lesson in not being afraid of what's different, why racism is wrong, why pollution is wrong; hell most of us here will agree that it was the Grinch who taught us the true meaning of Christmas. I can barely remember my childhood but I remember all of the Seuss books, by spirit if not by word. He proved you're never too young to learn the important stuff.