[UPDATE] Feds Take Down Megaupload

[samsonguy920]

This little quote just makes me shake my head.

"The fact is that the vast majority of Mega's Internet traffic is legitimate, and we are here to stay. If the content industry would like to take advantage of our popularity, we are happy to enter into a dialogue. We have some good ideas. Please get in touch."

It's the same as Clinton saying he tried marijuana but didn't inhale, or a girl being almost pregnant. You don't erase the illegality by being mostly legitimate. If that was true none of the mafia gangs would have ever been touched by the Feds.
If you can't police your own house, someone else will with worse consequences. Trying to act like you were mostly legit doesn't cut the cake. You are either all legit, or you are not.

My university backup.....my programs source code backups....gone.... I suppose it's a good thing i have 2 other back up locations but i feel sorry for any people who don't.

Anyone else think the "Justice" department are only doing this to show that even without SOPA, they can still take sites down?

Sucks to be you, then, using a third party site for important backups. Cloud filing has its benefits, but it would cost you about the same amount in the long run to get a flash drive or an external HD for further backup.
And, yes, the Justice Department can always do this, legitimately. SOPA would have taken away all that annoying bullshit like search warrants and due process.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I've said it before, but as the above guy touches on, so much piracy is TV and movies that just aren't available.

You can go 'first world problems' at me, and say we're being overprivileged, and that's a fair comment.

However, my point is, if the big corps pulled their finger out and stuck everything on itunes, DRM free, on the day of release, for a reasonable price, there's a huge percentage of people who are currently pirating that would happily pay.

Piracy isn't always about the money, sometimes it's the only way to get access to viewing content, until you can go out and buy the box set maybe 6 months later, and fans WILL buy it.

I remember going into HMV about 15 years ago, and seeing 'imported' CDs at vastly inflated prices, stuff just not available in the UK. There's no excuse for that now we're a connected world thru the internet, but the big business guys STILL want to lock down countries and set seperate prices and release dates.

If you've got avid fans of say, Disney movies, and you've decided the UK doesn't get, say, Toy Story 4 for six months after the US release, sure it's 'illegal', but can you really blame them for heading off to the torrents to see what they want to see? Knowing that they'll be in the cinema to watch it again, and then they'll be buying the blu ray special edition?

I maintain that the corps aren't even desperate for cash so much as they're desperate for CONTROL. They want it to be the 80s again, and a world where people had to come to them, pay exactly what was demanded for what was offered, when they wanted to offer it, and no-one had any other options.

It's not the 80s any more.

Evolve or die.

 

[maninahat]

snip

People use postal service for crime! Close it all down!
Criminals use cars to escape from crimesceense, or kill other people with them! Destroy all the cars and sue the car manufacturers for not taking better care!
Terrorists use planes to terrorize people! Blow up all the airplanes and imprison everyone who works for the airlines!
Do I have to go on?

This is NEVER an excuse for something like this. Megaupload was never intendet for piracy. They delete illegal files, just like Youtube for example. But do you have any idea of the amount of data that people upload there daily? NO ONE has the manpower to check every. single. file.

Also, could you give me the source for your claim that they "allowed" it to happen?

"Allow" probably isn't the correct term. Concede, maybe? As in they did a poor job of preventing pirated files (the site is festooned with them). Of course it is very difficult to stop pirating, but it seems to me that if you are going to start a file sharing webservice, or a video service like youtube, policing is a responsibility you have to accept, along with the consequences for failing to live up to that big responsibility. Youtube is in the same boat, and often regularly criticised for failing to prevent copywrited material. Though I don't know if they are likely to be accused of "money laundering" anytime soon.

meanwhile, it is the feds responsibility to prevent crimes. The only plausible way they can do that with megaupload is to stop the site entirely. We blame them for basically punishing the many perfectly innocent users along with the pirates, but it seems to me that there is very little recourse for the situation. They have to act, because the owners of megaupload failed to, and they only really have one choice. Either they leave the website open and allow everything to continue, or they stop the website all together. This isn't the same as get-away drivers, whom the FBI have the luxury of going after on an individual basis. Online piracy, by its very nature, involves many more culprits and is far harder to control. The FBI's tactic is similar to closing a sorting office, in response to a mass anthrax mail dump: the only way to stop those letters is to hold down the entire office until the problem is dealt with. Likewise, if there is a suspected terrorist loose in an airport, they would ground all the planes and inconvenience every passenger if they have to.

If the feds allow a service to continue, knowing full well that there are individuals hidden in that business committing serious crimes, then the feds have to take responsibility for their inaction, and suffer the consequences if bad things happen as a result. There is some nuance to the examples you gave, and to this particular situation as well.

 

[mikeybuthge]

Oooh, plot twist. This is just like a soap opera for nerds.

Or do you mean a SOPA opera for nerds.... sorry, couldn't help but post a bad joke

 

[Irridium]

Haha! Yes! Finally some god damn consequences against those who actually deserve it in this whole piracy thing. Stop going after freaking google and youtube and go after sites like this!

What about the millions that used these sites for perfectly legal means? The type of people that far outweighed the pirates?

It could be said that megaupload should have thought of that themselves, before they allowed all the illegal stuff to incriminate their business.

It could also be said that doing this would be literally impossible. And if Mediafire is to be believed, they do a pretty good job of that since apparently an overwhelming amount of traffic is for perfectly legal means.

Of course, that raises the question of who to trust. An internet site who has made quite the profit off this and very well may be lying since we have no proof.

Then again, where's the proof that they were infringing anything? What files were up? We can't check now because the site is down. All we know is that someone seems to have accused Mediafire of copyright infringement and quite a bit of other things, and unless some actual evidence surfaces soon, it seems like just an accusation was enough to get it taken down.

Which I'm pretty sure goes against precedent of needing proof to convict people of crimes.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

What about the millions that used these sites for perfectly legal means? The type of people that far outweighed the pirates?

Do you have any statistics to support that statement?

 

[maninahat]

Haha! Yes! Finally some god damn consequences against those who actually deserve it in this whole piracy thing. Stop going after freaking google and youtube and go after sites like this!

What about the millions that used these sites for perfectly legal means? The type of people that far outweighed the pirates?

It could be said that megaupload should have thought of that themselves, before they allowed all the illegal stuff to incriminate their business.

It could also be said that doing this would be literally impossible. And if Mediafire is to be believed, they do a pretty good job of that since apparently an overwhelming amount of traffic is for perfectly legal means.

Of course, that raises the question of who to trust. An internet site who has made quite the profit off this and very well may be lying since we have no proof.

Then again, where's the proof that they were infringing anything? What files were up? We can't check now because the site is down. All we know is that someone seems to have accused Mediafire of copyright infringement and quite a bit of other things, and unless some actual evidence surfaces soon, it seems like just an accusation was enough to get it taken down.

Which I'm pretty sure goes against precedent of needing proof to convict people of crimes.

I presume the feds thought to actually collect proof from the site before closing it down. The feds won't move to arrest someone unless they are, without a doubt, able to send the guys down with what they have. We can't check, but they would have. It would be very costly for the feds to arrest someone and close down their business, only with a spurious accusation.

EDIT: and as for preventing the infringing uploads. Yes, it is exceptionally difficult for services to prevent it from happening, and that is accepted to some degree (as long as the business appears to be doing everything it can). Apparently Megaupload failed to meet that standard, along with committing various other crimes. Even if it is impossible to stop piracy, that doesn't exhonerate the webservers. They still have to accept the responsibility for not preventing the piracy, and the consequences that come with it. That is the unfortunate burden of running such a business.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

They should probably find a different site then. One that wasn't so friendly to illegal copyrighted content.

They arent. They remove all copyrighted material that is reported to them. What more do you expect them to do? Manually open up files and check whats in them?..oh because that would totally work with millions upon millions of files.

What..should filesharing websites be automatically illegal because theres the POTENTIAL for copyrighted content to be stored on them? Nonsense...every single website in existence would be shut down if that were the case.

 

[Unhappy Crow]

Megaporn? Never heard of that site. But I do know Megaupload for years.

 

[Awsomeotaku]

Now where will I watch movies?

 

[punipunipyo]

Well... NOW we know that they didn't REALLY need SOPA to "raid" a "suspicious pirates... the left over thoughts are now... why do they need SOPA? Is it needed for "none Piracy reason? like... say... maybe to shut down/silence negative meta critics?

 

[Irridium]

What about the millions that used these sites for perfectly legal means? The type of people that far outweighed the pirates?

Do you have any statistics to support that statement?

I've been asking the same thing for years when companies say they keep losing millions to piracy. I think it's safe to say we're both blowing smoke. Though quite a bit of people did use Megaupload and its various for non-illegal means. Not sure on exact number, but I'm willing to bet it was used for legal means more than illegal. I really should stop doing that though. But it's frustrating to see the MPAA/RIAA and the like use the same arguments without providing facts and getting laws passed.

I presume the feds thought to actually collect proof from the site before closing it down. The feds won't move to arrest someone unless they are, without a doubt, able to send the guys down with what they have. We can't check, but they would have. It would be very costly for the feds to arrest someone and close down their business, only with a spurious accusation.

EDIT: and as for preventing the infringing uploads. Yes, it is exceptionally difficult for services to prevent it from happening, and that is accepted to some degree (as long as the business appears to be doing everything it can). Apparently Megaupload failed to meet that standard, along with committing various other crimes. Even if it is impossible to stop piracy, that doesn't exhonerate the webservers. They still have to accept the responsibility for not preventing the piracy, and the consequences that come with it. That is the unfortunate burden of running such a business.

Perhaps. But in most cases of copyright infringement, it's the accused who needs to prove their innocence, as opposed to the accuser. You can see this most brazenly with youtube video takedowns, where the accused ALWAYS has to prove his/her innocence. Which is the opposite of any other crime where the accused must provide the proof. For more specific cases, well there was the time when that popular hip-hop blog was wrongly blocked for over a year [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/ice-admits-months-long-seizure-of-music-blog-was-a-mistake.ars]. So collecting evidence before accusing isn't exactly what happens much in copyright infringement cases. At least on the internet.

There's also the case of Universal vs. Sony [http://w2.eff.org/legal/cases/betamax/], when Universal sued Sony because the Betamax could be used for copyright infringement. The Surpreme Court of the United States stated that a company is not liable for creating a piece of technology that might be used for infringing purposes, so long as the technology is capable of substantial non-infringing uses.

But that was for VCR's and physical pieces of tech. What about a P2P site like Megaupload?

Well, that would most likely fall under the MGM vs. Grokster [https://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/MGM_v_Grokster/] case. Where they would possibly be held liable for for infringement... if they created Megaupload it with the intention of copyright infringement. And considering that this never seemed to be one of their goals... not to mention the recent video of music stars endorsing the ways the site can be used legally, they should be fine.

Of course, the MGM vs Grokster case was for P2P software. I don't know if websites will fall under that. I'd imagine they would, though. So in terms of the copyright infringement accusations, they should not be charged since what they're doing is perfectly legal.

In terms of all the other accusations, like racketeering, well I suppose we'll see if there's any merit to those accusations in the future.

 

[ACman]

What I don't think is posted here but is really ridiculous is that if found guilty, these people will be facing a 55 year sentence.

That's right. 55 YEARS

So someone who commits murder and ends another LIFE can pay a lot less of a price than this? Awesome. The world has officially gone snooker loopy.

Part of me thinks this shutdown is a response to the SOPA and PIPA protests yesterday. A way of saying "well, we can and will do it, regardless."

Lies. Whether to put us on the criminal's side or not... probably.

The max they can get is 20.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/justice-fbi-crack-megaupload/story?id=15396526#.TxidwPnNlGU

Why is there an imprisonment penalty on this at all?

If you violate someone's copyright then you should owe damages and if you then refuse to pay damages then there should be the option of imprisonment.

It is outragous that the United States feels that draconian legislation that it passes should apply across the globe co-opting everyone's law enforcement to enforce it.

They did this with drugs; now they are doing it with this. If you want your laws to apply oveseas America give us a vote or fuck off.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Aaaaaaaand the retaliation has already begun...

http://rt.com/usa/news/anonymous-doj-universal-sopa-235/

 

[Uber Evil]

This little quote just makes me shake my head.

"The fact is that the vast majority of Mega's Internet traffic is legitimate, and we are here to stay. If the content industry would like to take advantage of our popularity, we are happy to enter into a dialogue. We have some good ideas. Please get in touch."

It's the same as Clinton saying he tried marijuana but didn't inhale, or a girl being almost pregnant. You don't erase the illegality by being mostly legitimate. If that was true none of the mafia gangs would have ever been touched by the Feds.
If you can't police your own house, someone else will with worse consequences. Trying to act like you were mostly legit doesn't cut the cake. You are either all legit, or you are not.

What about Youtube then? Their webtraffic is mostly legitimate, but they do have some infringing content. Should they be shut down.

 

[Omnific One]

I don't know about you guys, but I think it's high time they stopped with the overpriced TV episodes. No way in hell I'm paying a couple dollars to watch an episode from years ago. Cheapen it up (maybe purchase for $.25 for a single download (bandwidth for a TV show in 720p is about 3-5 cents, depending on the server situation), or make it free and do standard advertising.

 

[Akimoto]

So, who suspects that the lawsuit was a precursor to shutting down Megaupload?

TO SUMMARIZE:
The United States government just took down an international website and filed criminal charges against the parties involved EXCLUDING THE AMERICAN CEO.

Why do I find this horribly funny? (rhetorical)

Gallows humor

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Snip for space

I'd like to know the stats just out of curiosity.

Pure conjecture on my part, but I can't see how legal users could even begin to approach pirates on sites like MU, RS, BT, MF, etc. Never seen any solid numbers though, so who knows?

No, really--who knows? I want to ask them

 

[Edible Avatar]

Wow, maybe they just wanted to see how a SOPA style raid would go. I guess they figured nothing would come of it...and I guess nothing did. Still...I'd be pissed if I couldn't post my videos on youtube (not that they're any good) because people like to post "Fullmetal Alchemist part 3/5" in low quality.

Especially since Fullmetal Alchemist is streamed for free on Hulu in high quality!

OT: Sooooooo one of the reasons we banded against SOPA was to prevent them from doing something they already could do?

Hmm, i suppose so.

Spoiler

OT: Well why has'nt the government done this earlier? Why do it at a time when Internet freedom is gaining momentum?

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

And thus there was no more piracy, for ever. The end!