Regardless of who got this article right, going from "over 100 employees" (source: Icarus' own website) to 28 is one hell of a restructuring. If you have to lay off about 75% of your workforce in one go, something is very wrong.
Update: Icarus Studios Responds to Closure Report
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
This site is trying to beat all the bloggers and their twitter accounts. If they actually cite their sources like any of the old media publications they would have journalistic integrity but they would also be beaten to the punch every time.Precocious Rayne said:John Funk said:I can assure you, we have very good reason to trust our sources. As always, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - and if you could read well, you'd see that we'd sourced the post on the FE forums alreadyfatboy21007 said:ahh dont take ur anger out on me cuz u screwed up and posted the wrong info from sum angry turd who misimformed you. cuz if ud go Visit the FE fourms then welp ud know the truthok u can ban me from this site u guys already killed off ur rep. and well i never use i use good sites that get the facts directly from the company. Peace. hope to see u in FE sumday so i can give ya a good ass kicking
BTW, threatening staff is a no-no. See ya.
Now really, this is just silly. Was this guy "threatening staff" when he said he was going to "kick your ass in Fallen Earth?" (clearly he meant PvP). The fact remains it's sad when anyone can check the company's website and forums, and read the post by the community manager, and be more informed than the supposed 'experts' at the Escapist and their "sources" (as a few have said, likely a very angry former or current employee). Sure, there's been an internal shakeup, some people let go, and 'restructuring' which is always company speak for 'downsizing' 'letting people go' etc. and maybe lead/creative developer Lee Hammock left for a reason, and maybe he didn't. It's a sad day when Massively gets the story closer to correct than Escapist does, and doesn't end up having to print an "update"/retraction and end up with their foot planted firmly in mouth. Really, that's just amateur hour stuff guys, you're better than this.
Long time lurker, longer time reader,
"Rayne"
Edit: To further clarify, I am not threatening staff, (I don't even PvP in FE, though I do play it). I generally prefer your guys news reporting to Massively and the like, because it's generally more accurate, or at least a dang sight more funny. This is most assuradly NOT good news for Icarus, but it's not "company is closing it's doors" news either, to be that far off the mark...well. Let's just say if I were Icarus right now, I might be wondering how much damage this news story did to my rep, and if there was any form of liable action I could take...hence why you guys should be more careful when you're posting "breaking news" like that, or at least cooroberate with more than one "source". It's true the truth of it is likely somewhere in the middle, but I'd be worried right now if I were working this one. Of course, if I were working at Icarus, I'd probably STILL be worried...
Your best bet is not to listen to any news until you can follow their sources. It may seem foolish but with mainstream media always pushing political angles and online media being no better than tabloids you don't have much choice.
On topic, restructuring always means massive firings and with the company so quick to defend its position rather than let it show as a mark against the Escapist's ability to do research, they're going down in flames.
Erm, I think you'll find that "old media publications" used anonymous inside sources quite often. There can be reasons we don't name names, you know. Or have you never heard of Deep Throat?hypothetical fact said:This site is trying to beat all the bloggers and their twitter accounts. If they actually cite their sources like any of the old media publications they would have journalistic integrity but they would also be beaten to the punch every time.Precocious Rayne said:John Funk said:I can assure you, we have very good reason to trust our sources. As always, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - and if you could read well, you'd see that we'd sourced the post on the FE forums alreadyfatboy21007 said:ahh dont take ur anger out on me cuz u screwed up and posted the wrong info from sum angry turd who misimformed you. cuz if ud go Visit the FE fourms then welp ud know the truth
BTW, threatening staff is a no-no. See ya.
Now really, this is just silly. Was this guy "threatening staff" when he said he was going to "kick your ass in Fallen Earth?" (clearly he meant PvP). The fact remains it's sad when anyone can check the company's website and forums, and read the post by the community manager, and be more informed than the supposed 'experts' at the Escapist and their "sources" (as a few have said, likely a very angry former or current employee). Sure, there's been an internal shakeup, some people let go, and 'restructuring' which is always company speak for 'downsizing' 'letting people go' etc. and maybe lead/creative developer Lee Hammock left for a reason, and maybe he didn't. It's a sad day when Massively gets the story closer to correct than Escapist does, and doesn't end up having to print an "update"/retraction and end up with their foot planted firmly in mouth. Really, that's just amateur hour stuff guys, you're better than this.
Long time lurker, longer time reader,
"Rayne"
Edit: To further clarify, I am not threatening staff, (I don't even PvP in FE, though I do play it). I generally prefer your guys news reporting to Massively and the like, because it's generally more accurate, or at least a dang sight more funny. This is most assuradly NOT good news for Icarus, but it's not "company is closing it's doors" news either, to be that far off the mark...well. Let's just say if I were Icarus right now, I might be wondering how much damage this news story did to my rep, and if there was any form of liable action I could take...hence why you guys should be more careful when you're posting "breaking news" like that, or at least cooroberate with more than one "source". It's true the truth of it is likely somewhere in the middle, but I'd be worried right now if I were working this one. Of course, if I were working at Icarus, I'd probably STILL be worried...
Your best bet is not to listen to any news until you can follow their sources. It may seem foolish but with mainstream media always pushing political angles and online media being no better than tabloids you don't have much choice.
On topic, restructuring always means massive firings and with the company so quick to defend its position rather than let it show as a mark against the Escapist's ability to do research, they're going down in flames.
To threaten staff in FE is one thing, to appear to be threatening to kick someone's ass in real life is another thing entirely - though I can see how that would have been a misreading.Precocious Rayne said:John Funk said:I can assure you, we have very good reason to trust our sources. As always, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - and if you could read well, you'd see that we'd sourced the post on the FE forums alreadyfatboy21007 said:ahh dont take ur anger out on me cuz u screwed up and posted the wrong info from sum angry turd who misimformed you. cuz if ud go Visit the FE fourms then welp ud know the truth
BTW, threatening staff is a no-no. See ya.
Now really, this is just silly. Was this guy "threatening staff" when he said he was going to "kick your ass in Fallen Earth?" (clearly he meant PvP). The fact remains it's sad when anyone can check the company's website and forums, and read the post by the community manager, and be more informed than the supposed 'experts' at the Escapist and their "sources" (as a few have said, likely a very angry former or current employee). Sure, there's been an internal shakeup, some people let go, and 'restructuring' which is always company speak for 'downsizing' 'letting people go' etc. and maybe lead/creative developer Lee Hammock left for a reason, and maybe he didn't. It's a sad day when Massively gets the story closer to correct than Escapist does, and doesn't end up having to print an "update"/retraction and end up with their foot planted firmly in mouth. Really, that's just amateur hour stuff guys, you're better than this.
Long time lurker, longer time reader,
"Rayne"
Edit: To further clarify, I am not threatening staff, (I don't even PvP in FE, though I do play it). I generally prefer your guys news reporting to Massively and the like, because it's generally more accurate, or at least a dang sight more funny. This is most assuradly NOT good news for Icarus, but it's not "company is closing it's doors" news either, to be that far off the mark...well. Let's just say if I were Icarus right now, I might be wondering how much damage this news story did to my rep, and if there was any form of liable action I could take...hence why you guys should be more careful when you're posting "breaking news" like that, or at least cooroberate with more than one "source". It's true the truth of it is likely somewhere in the middle, but I'd be worried right now if I were working this one. Of course, if I were working at Icarus, I'd probably STILL be worried...
I can assure you, we were not just going off of a random insider tip. We have good reason to consider the original source trustworthy, which is why we've left the original story up as is, instead of issuing a retraction - at the moment, we're hearing contradictory reports from two sources we consider trustworthy, and don't feel that we can 100% say either way which is right and which is wrong.
I totally called it. That's what you get for listening to fanboys saying that the game is perfect and if you don't like it then GGET OUT!
I would much rather grind my butt off 5 hours a day in Aion than play FE ever again. One of the most boring, empty and ugly MMOs I've ever seen.
I would much rather grind my butt off 5 hours a day in Aion than play FE ever again. One of the most boring, empty and ugly MMOs I've ever seen.
Disgruntled ex-employees, what ARE we going to do with them?
Hope they can take losing their job i guess.
That said, i guess it's good news FE's still going strong, i'd play it if it was a one-off fee compared to subscription.
Hope they can take losing their job i guess.
That said, i guess it's good news FE's still going strong, i'd play it if it was a one-off fee compared to subscription.
I know personally a few people that work(ed) at Icarus, and it was a surprise to all of them - yesterday morning, they were just told to GTFO.
In particular, the guy I'm closest to did all of the mechanical (non-character) animations for FE, and I can say that the guy is a real pro, and really good at what he does. I was a TA in his classes for the first half of his 3D/animation college until I graduated. Nothing quite like putting your soul into building something huge from nothing, then being told to go home once it's successful.
At least some of the ex-Icarii(?) will be reading this, so do try to have some empathy for the new folks in the unemployment line.
In particular, the guy I'm closest to did all of the mechanical (non-character) animations for FE, and I can say that the guy is a real pro, and really good at what he does. I was a TA in his classes for the first half of his 3D/animation college until I graduated. Nothing quite like putting your soul into building something huge from nothing, then being told to go home once it's successful.
At least some of the ex-Icarii(?) will be reading this, so do try to have some empathy for the new folks in the unemployment line.
I feel bad for everyone who lost their job.
However, the MMO market is extraordinarily over-saturated. As a developer, I would never work at a studio making an MMO unless it was attached to an immensely popular IP or likewise had some amazing and groundbreaking concepts (of course, you won't find out of it does or not until you start working there).
The thing is, there is simply no real room for "another MMO" out there. You could just play one of the hundreds of free to play Asian MMOs if you want to get your grind on. Just because WoW pulls in 1.8 billion dollars a year does not mean you will. Though I suppose if its the difference between employed and homeless than anyone who could would take the job.
However, the MMO market is extraordinarily over-saturated. As a developer, I would never work at a studio making an MMO unless it was attached to an immensely popular IP or likewise had some amazing and groundbreaking concepts (of course, you won't find out of it does or not until you start working there).
The thing is, there is simply no real room for "another MMO" out there. You could just play one of the hundreds of free to play Asian MMOs if you want to get your grind on. Just because WoW pulls in 1.8 billion dollars a year does not mean you will. Though I suppose if its the difference between employed and homeless than anyone who could would take the job.
Either way this is the death knell for FE. The content already done will be released but what about new content?
MMOs only survive if they improve old content (inc game systems) and add new content. With a vastly reduced dev team how long will new content take?
I wanted to play FE (and got a free trial key from the Escapists) but was unable to download the game before the week trial ran out (due the downloader crashing, restarting and then freezing periodically).
MMOs only survive if they improve old content (inc game systems) and add new content. With a vastly reduced dev team how long will new content take?
I wanted to play FE (and got a free trial key from the Escapists) but was unable to download the game before the week trial ran out (due the downloader crashing, restarting and then freezing periodically).
On one hand, I want to make an off color porn joke... on the other hand I respect you guys too much. Dilemmas.John Funk said:
Given that both sources are credible, and you're working off, basically two sides of the same story...John Funk said:
Out of curiosity, why did this rate a new article rather than an update?
Rocqu said:
The fact that we consider both sources credible is the exact reason why we posted a new article rather than do an update. We don't feel that we can in confidence say 100% that either of these is true, so we'd rather present both sides and leave them out there for other people to decide.Starke said:On one hand, I want to make an off color porn joke... on the other hand I respect you guys too much. Dilemmas.John Funk said:
Given that both sources are credible, and you're working off, basically two sides of the same story...John Funk said:
Out of curiosity, why did this rate a new article rather than an update?
I think the real tragedy here was that any attention was paid to someone who calls themself "Fatboy".
The truth is, this kind of thing happens and is all together understandable.
We'll just have to stick around and see how this turns out. I hope this turns out well for Icarus. I really don't want to see another R.I.P. if I don't have to, and as I said in the other article forum post I'd like to see this kind of game go well. I'd like to play it sometime, seems interesting.
The truth is, this kind of thing happens and is all together understandable.
We'll just have to stick around and see how this turns out. I hope this turns out well for Icarus. I really don't want to see another R.I.P. if I don't have to, and as I said in the other article forum post I'd like to see this kind of game go well. I'd like to play it sometime, seems interesting.
There are definitely some people still working at Icarus (the person who responded to your article, the GM's still present in game and on the forums, and another who answers the phone if you call the office), so the article is clearly false. Additionally, the servers are still up and the Public Test Server is still getting updates.
The first article may be based in fact, but is probably more likely a bit overblown by a disgruntled ex-employee.
The first article may be based in fact, but is probably more likely a bit overblown by a disgruntled ex-employee.
Perhaps, but getting rid of 77.3% of your workforce is a clear signal that something is very wrong.lordwiz said:
I can't belive me eyes, I found the first story from a forum in Steam and after reading the first story in which "Tiggs" responded my brain started popping like popcorn and after a little research I found the goods....Tiggs was the Forum Manager for FlagShip Studios and Tiggs just so happened to be the one that kept us all happy in some ways as HellGate London was sunk but yet they kept the IP running for a few more months as Bill Roper and Gang cleaned out the cupboards and ran. So I checked out the forums for Fallen Earth and bam! Tiggs as I knew the employee was their along with the weird tag under the name (something about messing with Dragons and you taste good with ketchup). I was a Lifetime member with Flagship Studios and yes I'm flammed as they get but whats $149.00 membership get you these days anyways...but what got me started with this whole deal and thank you Escapist Magazine for posting your article early as there are way too many similarities and the Steam Forum is full of people with stories that brough back way too much pain. Icarus Studio's just so happened to come alive around or close to the last few days or so when they pulled the plug on Hellgate: London I applaud the reporter and the magazine for being ground breaking for if not for the first article my information and believe me thousands of others out there will atest to my story. In closing, I would reccommend Tiggs use another screen name at the next IP and for the life of me I can't figure out how someone gets hired on after being part of a major fraud of gamers since we could'nt update our subscriptions nor cancel and receive a refund, All i can say is people this looks like a snake and is starting to smell like one too. UPDATE: I tried with out luck to post a private comment to Tiggs on Fallen Earths website forums but Tiggs isnt receiving any pm's or post as mine was instantly removed.
Thanks all
Thanks all