Update: Microsoft And Machinima Defend YouTube Promotion Deal

[Rabid_meese]

Part of the promotion was to not say anything bad about the Xbox One. That instantly taints every single one of your employee's who took money from it - even if they had legitimately liked the Xbox One, it gives everyone involved an aura of tainted opinions.

Giving money for someones opinions isn't that bad of a thing. Its expected. Opinion leaders have been doing it for decades. Logical people are okay with it.

As soon as you start saying "BUT, you only get this if you say something nice about it," you're violating ethics. Oh, and doesn't keeping sponsorships hidden violate the Federal Trade Commissions law?

 

[TomWiley]

Edit: how the hell do you embed things in this forum? Nvm, I'll just drop the link...

For youtube videos do this minus the spaces:

[ youtube = ###### ]

Where ##### is the part of the url after 'watch?v='

So your video would be

[ youtube = 9CnSIJJNjIs ]


I hope that helps.

OT: I think this is probably going to backfire for Microsoft in that people now know they have been buying positive opinions. No doubt they have given a few reviewers/websites a 'goody bag' for their reviews on Xbone titles.

Not to sound naive or anything, but is there any real evidence of Microsoft or any other company in the gaming industry actually directly bribing people to say positive things about their products, whilst telling them to lie about and hide their involvement?

Advertising and promotion, as well as indirect "bribes" such as Microsoft and Sony sending youtubers free consoles and games with no agreement involved, doesn't count.

 

[Glaice]

I'm glad I have integrity myself and am not partnered whatsoever so I won't fall to this kind of foolishness.

 

[Doclector]

Nothing unusual?

Doesn't that mean it's even worse? That not only is this not a one off occurrance, but that it's commonplace?

Then again, I can't see them fooling many people. Machinima has not been a force for good in videogaming for a very long time now.

 

[Loop Stricken]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. So, are youtubers being paid to give positive reviews, or just to show footage? If they just go "Here's the content, you judge for yourself" then I suppose it's fine. The only problems come when people start lying or misinforming.

From what I know of watching TotalBiscuit's video on the matter, the video has to mention the Xbone by name, show thirty seconds of Xbone footage, and include some sort of keyword in the video tags, or whatever they are.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. So, are youtubers being paid to give positive reviews, or just to show footage? If they just go "Here's the content, you judge for yourself" then I suppose it's fine. The only problems come when people start lying or misinforming.

From what I know of watching TotalBiscuit's video on the matter, the video has to mention the Xbone by name, show thirty seconds of Xbone footage, and include some sort of keyword in the video tags, or whatever they are.

Total Biscuit has, as usual, a great analysis of the situation on his YouTube channel. It's worth watching. Among other things he addresses the legality of paying somebody for promoting a product but not allowing them to disclose their interest in the matter.

To add to that: he suggests that not disclosing the promotional deal might cause the youtuber to fall foul of US law. I have no idea if that applies in other countries or not, but it seems pretty shady to me. I'd be surprised if you can legally take money for promoting a particular product but not disclose your interest in it. Films made in the UK still have the sponsor credits at the end of them, for example.

 

[llamastorm.games]

I am so thoroughly sick of this non news story now
Content creators on social platforms paid to at the very least mention a product, they don't even have to say anything postive or negative merely mention it and use some footage, it raises awareness of the product it doesn't need to be positive or negative.

I have no doubt that basically every single company in the world trying to tell a product has done a similar thing, if indeed it is a shady practice then it's unfair to merely target one specific company for doing it...

 

[Callate]

Gee. That's contemptible and despicable!

"This partnership between Machinima and Microsoft was a typical marketing partnership to promote Xbox One in December.

...If that's true, then...

Gee! More than one company has been contemptible and despicable!

...Also, by signing off on it as "typical", Microsoft has just effectively surrendered any credible claim that they don't share responsibility for it.

Can we stop pretending that something being "industry standard"- especially when similar terms are used by a company large enough that they could make such a claim solely on the basis of their employing the tactic so described- is an excuse for doing something rotten? Industry standard toxic dumping still kills the fish, industry-standard third-world manufacturing still employs children to work on machines that cut off their arms, and industry standard deceptive back-door advertising is still lying to the people whose loyalty you hope to earn.

 

[vallorn]

I am so thoroughly sick of this non news story now
Content creators on social platforms paid to at the very least mention a product, they don't even have to say anything postive or negative merely mention it and use some footage, it raises awareness of the product it doesn't need to be positive or negative.

I have no doubt that basically every single company in the world trying to tell a product has done a similar thing, if indeed it is a shady practice then it's unfair to merely target one specific company for doing it...

Wrong. Just. Wrong.

the terms of the contract mean that you CANNOT say anything negative about The Bone, Microsoft or Machinima, cannot mention the contract ever(Illegal under the FTC regulations), must namedrop The Bone, and must show 30s of Bone footage.

This does not just "Raise Awareness" this is flat out illegal propoganda. And if other companies do it I hope it comes out so we can flay them alive but right now only Microsoft is known to have done this so the data only says Microsoft are crooks who need to buy people's opinions on The Bone to get anything positive said.

 

[Ipsen]

The problem was the poor attempt at deception. These videos will essentially be commercial videos in an arena that is traditionally assumed to consist of honest community based content. "Paint in a positive light" is basically Microsoft paying individuals that are supposed to represent grass-roots consumer views to lie to their viewers.

It's the fact that Microsoft assumes it can buy opinion that makes people uncomfortable, the attempt at a collective lie that the Xbone is not a consumer hating pile of micro-transactions and questionable pricing models.

Except that this isn't really true, which was reveled be recent updates recently summarized by his husky gentleman.


Basically, this is on Machinima.

The question that crops up for me is 'what motive would lead Machinima to contract like so completely out of favor of themselves'? They're the ones with a closer finger to the pulse of the community (why else would Microsoft approach them with marketing incentives?); from what Boogie is saying, essentially, Machinima puts up an NDA...on themselves???

Best case scenario, and excluding boop-ups (an outside PR company was mentioned), there's just too much stupid shit going on to even pin this solely on Machinima (until more details come to light).

I'll pick out some things that are pretty universally clear:
- Microsoft is giving out money in hopes to improve their image (AKA marketing)
- A Youtube commentary channel, which bases its following in the integrity of its commentators is involved
- There's an NDA in place.

 

[Lugbzurg]

I was expecting to be hearing a lot more about YouTube's faulty copyright bots that illegally shut down anything they recognize. Surely, that would've undoubtedly happened, as well. In fact, I'd be surprised if it hadn't already!

 

[RandV80]

Not to sound naive or anything, but is there any real evidence of Microsoft or any other company in the gaming industry actually directly bribing people to say positive things about their products, whilst telling them to lie about and hide their involvement?

Advertising and promotion, as well as indirect "bribes" such as Microsoft and Sony sending youtubers free consoles and games with no agreement involved, doesn't count.

I don't know about the others, but historically for Microsoft the OOXML fiasco from 10 years ago is a pretty big black mark on the company for this sort of shady dealing.

 

[Madman123456]

One who really shot themselves in the foot would be machinima. They destroy their own market. Why would i watch game critiques when they may or may have been bought by companies. If i can't trust the reviews they become useless, so i want watch them.
The same thing happened with the print media video gaming mags. A little conflict of interest as well here, videogame companies advertised in magazines who reviewed their games and the magazines felt obliged to maybe review some games not quite as critical.
Possibly pressed by companies. Videogaming magazines where feeling pressure by the internet so they gave into the pressure and then became completely useless. If all i can get is biased reviews, i might as well read ten on the internet for free instead of paying for another one.

That wasn't that long ago and some people at machinima may have worked at a dying videogaming mag...

About Microsoft and Machinima defending such practises:
Well, if you take a closer look at it, the black plague wasn't so bad.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Are they really saying it's alright because it happens all the time? That is such a non-reason it's worse than saying nothing at all.

 

[Strazdas]

Not to sound naive or anything, but is there any real evidence of Microsoft or any other company in the gaming industry actually directly bribing people to say positive things about their products, whilst telling them to lie about and hide their involvement?

Yes, this very OP.
They must advertise Xbone. They must sign NDA which does not allow them to say they were paid. Thus, it fits both your requirements and is actually ILLEGAL according to current FTC regulations.

Nothing unusual?
Doesn't that mean it's even worse? That not only is this not a one off occurrance, but that it's commonplace?
Then again, I can't see them fooling many people. Machinima has not been a force for good in videogaming for a very long time now.

probably not unusual in same way that youtube video blocking was unusual. they were doing it for 5 years, but only when it hit somone that was public enough to scream about it and be heard people realized what was happening.

The question that crops up for me is 'what motive would lead Machinima to contract like so completely out of favor of themselves'? They're the ones with a closer finger to the pulse of the community (why else would Microsoft approach them with marketing incentives?); from what Boogie is saying, essentially, Machinima puts up an NDA...on themselves???

Well, the reason Machinima is avoided by a whole bunch of people that ever had to deal with them is because they are very brutal with their employees. basically imagine the "evil boss that hates you" Scenario and multiply it tenfold.

 

[ampzero66]

Soo.... not sure if this is related, but the link at the bottom of Machinima's website that leads to their youtube page seems to be broken.

 

[farbrorbla]

Love how everyone saying "Sony probably does the same thing" are the exact same folks that said "Sony might have planned to do the DRM thing to". Well guess what, they didnt and as far as we know they didnt contact Machinima to give them false marketing. Point the bloody fingers where they should be pointed and leave the concpiracy theories at home. Facts are facts and lately the facts have made Microsoft look pretty shady as a company

 

[Colt47]

So Microsoft just decided to shoot itself in the foot again? You know, this company seems like they are trying to one up EA or something with destroying their public image.

 

[vagabondwillsmile]

Edit: how the hell do you embed things in this forum? Nvm, I'll just drop the link...

For youtube videos do this minus the spaces:

[ youtube = ###### ]

Where ##### is the part of the url after 'watch?v='

So your video would be

[ youtube = 9CnSIJJNjIs ]


I hope that helps.

OT: I think this is probably going to backfire for Microsoft in that people now know they have been buying positive opinions. No doubt they have given a few reviewers/websites a 'goody bag' for their reviews on Xbone titles.

Yeah, he makes a point in his video. However, every contract must have at least two parties. It doesn't matter if Machinima or MS wrote that line of the contract. Both enterprises have lawyers, both enterprises have equal bargaining power in the context of the agreement, both enterprises are privy to the same information, and both enterprises are savvy in their respective industries. Whether Machinima wrote that condition or not, Microsoft - who's lawyers really should have known better - knew of it, acquiesced to it, stamped it, and passed it on. It is as though they wrote it themselves, even if in fact they didn't.

Unless, Machinima's NDA with Youtube content makers was completely separate from Machinima's promotion contract with Microsoft. Only this way could one say that Machinima is truly the party that issued an offending contract condition. Yet, even then, Microsoft could have, should have - and in all likelyhood - would have, reviewed the NDA as it would at least be a link between their agreement with Machinima and possible subsequent agreement between Machinima and youtube content makers.

There is no way Microsoft escapes at least a share of blame, and looking very stupid.

 

[Atmos Duality]

"That didn't happen here and we're evaluating why," the statement said. "All participants are being asked today to include our standard language going-forward. We apologize for the error and any confusion."

*laughs uproariously*
Yeah, bullshit. You're just backtracking because you got caught.
Probably because the original wording of the promo made it FLAT OUT ILLEGAL.

Doesn't change the fact that the promo itself is pretty fucking shady; they aren't just advertising the system, but are trying to get their content producers to sell their opinions (can't dissent when the term specifies praise-only).

Oh yeah, and Microsoft (or rather, Machinima):
Rape is common. It happens all the time. Right now, I guarantee that someone, somewhere is being sexually assaulted against their consent. Since it's so common, does this make rape OK?

No? Then lets cut the bullshit and stop trying to understate a dirty practice entirely because of its frequency, OK?