UPDATE: Penny Arcade Smacks Down Shady PR Dude

Makon

New member
Jul 9, 2008
171
0
0
How the topic changes and evolves over the course of a single day...

I think we can all agree that Paul is an insufferable twat. I think we can also agree that (so far as we know) his family was not involved in his dealings in any way, and as such should be crossed off of 'the hit list'. It also isn't like the internet 'mob' is going through his garbage to steal his bank account numbers or are writing terrorist-style manifestos before calling in bomb threats in his name. So far as the online community has done, they've traced emails to steroid use and a three year old domestic violence case. That's it.

With that said, some will note that I share a number of points of view as Gabe from PA. Paul's family is a definite no-go zone, the product and 'Ocean Marketting [sic]' are two ENTIRELY separate entities, so review-bombing it on Amazon and such is doing nothing beneficial for anyone (or detrimental for Paul). To that end, I have absolutely no problems watching people dig up more proof of Paul's incompetence as a human being.

I've noticed some people accuse that if, theoretically, Paul did remove himself from the equation (you know what I am talking about), the blood would be on the internet community's hands. That statement is incorrect: Any decisions that Paul makes going forward are his and his alone. Like I said above, the worst that the web community has done is make events from his past public, they haven't and can not put a gun to his head and pull the trigger.

To that end, I actually hold hesitation on if Paul's family has actually received any threats against his family's well-being, though maybe against Paul himself. The only person to explicitly state that there have been any threats is Paul himself, and I believe we all know what his word is worth these days. Grant it, we do know the nature of the internet so such a thing as those kinds of threats wouldn't surprise me, but I'd put more stock in the possibility if they came from anyone but the known liar that is the 'victim' (Paul).

To cap it off, to those that say "Well he just shot his mouth off, you can't tell me you never have done that!", I have this to say. Paul consistently managed to insult and demean multiple customers over an extensive period of time (months), with only this latest escapade of his making the headlines. Unless he's been having consistently bad days throughout his employment, which I highly doubt, that excuse holds no water.

There is also a fine line between personally and professionally running your mouth off. Personally, yes, everyone does it. To deny that fact either means you are lying, or that you are a robot and are incapable of emotions. Professionally, over email no less (since it eliminates knee-jerk responses), it is an entirely different matter that any sensible human being understands. Paul didn't just have a bad day at work and shoot his mouth off to a customer in front of him, he has been behaving like the uncultured and spineless antagonistic coward that he is, over an extended period of time, simply because he could.
 

Nergy

New member
Jul 21, 2011
78
0
0
ghost whistler said:
DiMono said:
ghost whistler said:
ChildofGallifrey said:
ghost whistler said:
I think the people that run PA need to grow up. Why was it posted to them in the first place and why did they think this was their duty to post all over the place?
Mike Krahulik was included (I don't believe Jerry Holkins, the other creative half of PA, is involved except by association) because Christoforo started name dropping his 'industry connections', and he mentioned the staff of PAX among them.

He posted the conversation to the public after Christoforo threatened him and his company.
He wasn't threatened at all.
Krahulik has behaved appallingly and should accept respnsibility for the total overreaction that has occurred. Utterly shameful, but totally predictable. The internet makes it impossible for people to make mistakes and move on. I find that disgusting.
I'm not making e3xcuses for christoforo's behaviour either, he behaved badly. But to take that and copy paste it over the internet and then have some twat and his chums behave even worse is hardly mature. Penny Arcade has absolutely disgraced itself.
I take it you haven't read the full email conversation then? Christoforo said this:
Ill put my marketing team on a smear campaign of you and your site and your emails , I have about 125 dedicated people to run PR , Blogs , Articles , Videos you have no clue who I am . Thanks again
Sounds like a threat to me. Though I seriously doubt his "company" is bigger than just him and his wife (who goes around SEO forums writing fake testimonials for Ocean, btw).
That sounds like a threat? Sounds to me like a small fish talking big. The guy's an idiot, no question. But that is no excuse for nasty vindictive behaviour from people that should know better.
You don't take the moral high ground that way. You make yourself more of a bully than the person you are dealing with. Sending death threats and involving his family is reprehensible and total cowardice. I'm still waiting for someone to explain just what this has to do with Penny Arcade who havbe clearly shown themselves to be a bunch of cunts, plain and simple. Internet bullying is singularly unpleasant. They have every right to refuse this guy entry to PAX for example. But to take it to this level is disgusting.
But that's life these days. No one seems to give a shit anymore and quite happily rally their sad little internet cabals to damn, for all time, anyone they don't like. It's utterly utterly pathetic.
You don't deal with an idiot by being a bigger nastier idiot. The original buyer in question should have cancelled his order and, if necessary, pursued legal action for recovery of monies (it is totally unacceptable also to take payment and not provide the goods in question).
If this is what the gaming wants as its representatives then i want no part of it.
Mike quite clearly condemned the people who pulled up paul's personal details. He simply responded to Paul and told him he wasn't welcome at PAX because of the way he treats customers like paul did, they would do the same with any company. I would do the same if i was in the position too. Mike is NOT the "mob". He simply brought the story to the attention of a broader audience. I'd argue that what has transpired would have still happened. The only difference is that Paul wouldn't be apologizing to Mike for being a dick.

I take what Paul said as a threat, as far as anyone knew at the time, he very well could have had a staff under his charge that would have tried to smear Penny Arcade. Please stop painting everyone with same brush, you're acting like every single person was threatening to kill his wife and child. That was a tiny, TINY minority of people. Just because a few people acted irresponsible, That doesn't mean this person didn't deserve to lose his job. If a person under my charge did this, they would be out on their ass as soon as I read Mike Krahulik's first post.
 

Jeremytroid

New member
Jul 10, 2011
25
0
0
Well I'm watching Paul's Twitter feed for nothing but a few lulz. The most glaring problem I have is that he repeatedly says the he isn't a PR or Marketing professional. Ok, so you're not. That's fine. You do need to at least ACT like one once you get hired into that position. Please Paul, just stop trying. Every word makes you look worse.
 

ThunderCavalier

New member
Nov 21, 2009
1,475
0
0
You know, I was going to use some sort of witty little ditty followed by an in-depth analysis of how badly this guy screwed up.

But after reading through all of the related material (including the Penny Arcade article on their website), I can only honestly reply to this ENTIRE spectacle with one fluid, solid motion.

*facepalm*
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Jove said:
So let me get this straight...

1. Terrible PR
2. Plagiarizing and copyright infringement
3. Steroids
4. Piracy
5. Lied about these "big connections" he had.
6. Failure to send products to the promised date and illegally charging the customers FULL before product is even shipped.

Have I got it down pretty much?
I think you missed slander and murder of the English language.
I laughed, my husband laughed, and we thank you.
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
Sixcess said:
Eh... it's a slow news day and Mike Krahulik is projecting like crazy in that follow up piece. Time to be the bigger man.

The guy sent some rude emails so now the vengeful internet will destroy his business and his life. Hopefully they'll back off before he ends up swinging from a ceiling beam somewhere, although I'm sure there are people out there who've blown this enough out of proportion that they'd think it was deserved.

The GoDaddy thing? That was good. That was the internet being a channel for a popular movement to take meaningful action directed at a big company that should have known better. This? This is just some poor schmuck being persecuted because the internet was bored and he is an easy target.
Uhm, no. Bullies like this thug have been around forever, pushing people around and abusing whatever power they are (foolishly) given. Only now, thanks to the internet, they cannot hide in their business, or home town. Everyone with access can now know what you did within second of you doing it. This is karma. This is justice. This is the "free market" correcting itself. Gods, how I love it!
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
tippy2k2 said:
From Penny-Arcade: "I will personally burn everything I.ve made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames."

...am I the only one who is just a smidge afraid of Mike at this point? : )

Samuel L. Jackson needs to give the "Bad-ass Mother Fucker" wallet to Mike at this point. Sorry Mr. Jackson, Mr. Krahulik now deserves the title.
Not afraid, not at all. It's reassuring actually. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
 

DiMono

New member
Mar 18, 2010
837
0
0
ghost whistler said:
(snip)

That sounds like a threat? Sounds to me like a small fish talking big. The guy's an idiot, no question. But that is no excuse for nasty vindictive behaviour from people that should know better.
You don't take the moral high ground that way. You make yourself more of a bully than the person you are dealing with. Sending death threats and involving his family is reprehensible and total cowardice. I'm still waiting for someone to explain just what this has to do with Penny Arcade who havbe clearly shown themselves to be a bunch of cunts, plain and simple. Internet bullying is singularly unpleasant. They have every right to refuse this guy entry to PAX for example. But to take it to this level is disgusting.
But that's life these days. No one seems to give a shit anymore and quite happily rally their sad little internet cabals to damn, for all time, anyone they don't like. It's utterly utterly pathetic.
You don't deal with an idiot by being a bigger nastier idiot. The original buyer in question should have cancelled his order and, if necessary, pursued legal action for recovery of monies (it is totally unacceptable also to take payment and not provide the goods in question).
If this is what the gaming wants as its representatives then i want no part of it.
You seem to be under the impression that Mike sicked his legions of loyal fans on this guy. That is simply not the case. All he did was ban him from PAX, and post the conversation on his website with Christoforo's permission (again, read the conversation). Nobody jumped on him because they thought Mike wanted them to, they jumped on him because gamers instinctively defend their own. Penny Arcade are in no way responsible for what random people on the Internet do, and it is wrong of you to suggest otherwise.
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
Flying Dagger said:
This really stinks of the persecution complex that moviebob was talking about a few big pictures ago.

I feel like Sentor Amidala as Palpatine takes over the senate.

All around people are deciding to viciously smash up a guys life because he was a bit of an asshole.
This is no "eye for an eye" (the meaning of the phrase is that you shall take no more than has been taken from you) let alone the "turn the other cheek" we have been expected to uphold in decent society.

We tell children not to react when provoked, and yet here all I see are whining rabid enthusiasts taking their persecution complexes to such high levels where it is them themselves that are the bullies. This is not even base reaction, it is overreaction at it's finest. Yes the guy should be fired, but that's it.

As someone who has worked in retail I had my moments where I lost my cool, that's no reason for this campaign of hate.

And all this before people go and decide to review bomb a controller that is designed to help disabled kids.

Internet people, you disappoint me. Again.
So, uhm, why are you on the internet again?
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
SurrealFactory said:
As much as this guy was out of line, I can't help but feel a little bad for his family. Although his appology may not have been sincere, I don't doubt his wife and kid will be affected by this whole thing. Maybe Mike could've been a bit easier on him.
No, people like him only learn the hard way. Correct his behavior now, or in 20 years we'll just have another asshole to deal with because he'll have taught his kid that the behavior is okay. I'm a parent, and I can tell you, they do learn from what you do, even if it's not what you say.
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
Talk is talk, that's all it is. Until someone crosses the line and does something about it, then it's harmless. It's all fine and well to sit in the bar and grumble about the local nobleman, it's another to grab the pitchforks and go hunting. As far as I can see, no pitchforks have been grabbed.
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Flying Dagger said:
However - I propose a hypothetical situation - When I raise my kid, I will tell them not to rise to things like this - not to persecute, but to use the proper channels.
Not to rush blindly without the full information, but to uphold the fantastic legal system we as civilized societies hold.

And when they ask me what I did when the first round of internet lynchings happened, I will say how I despaired.
Seriously, man? You're going to bring in "Won't someone think of the children?" when a guy who has been threatening multiple people, ignoring credit laws, outright lying in a business context and ended up attacking his greatest public relation point, when it turned it's glare on him?

If the internet was properly policed instead of being an extension of the feral capitalism that's going on in the hands of bankers IRL, then these lynch mobs wouldn't be created.

But SOPA shows how the hyenas want to destroy all the legal people involved in this, while protecting the douchecanoes like Ocean Marketting.

You may not have realised, or seen because your nose is pointing skyward, the sterling work of Eli Schwartz and David Kotkin, who are repairing the damage done to the controller's reputation; or the positive reviews of it coming out from reputable sites that work as guiding forces within the mob.

If you're going to hold you head up high, I'd suggest looking at your feet occasionally, because I think you've trodden in some shit.

Like the "superior" UK Criminal Justice Act; which allows the police to burn Traveller's houses and charge them for doing so. That's the beautiful law you allude to.
Between you and Gabe of PA, I don't know who's vying for my love more. Sorry guys this gal is taken, but your views are wicked hot.
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
Adultratedhydra said:
Ah. The sweet sweet smell of justice. Let the smouldering ruins of his life serve as a warning to those who would do wrong.
Some people's lives only serve as a warning to others. I saw that on a poster somewhere. I think it may apply here.
 

Flying Dagger

New member
Apr 14, 2009
1,344
0
0
Tselis said:
I think Flying Dagger may be as almost as big a Troll as this douche we're all discussing.
I've stated what I believe in. If you disagree with my views then fine, but please don't try to label me insincere in them.

If you look back at my post I provide proof of the danger mob mentality can pose and what it can drive people to do and also Why people are doing it, and shows why it is a cause for concern.

Trolling is the act of posting without proof or belief in an attempt to get a rise out of people.

Much like you have done.

EDIT: yes I know I said I'd leave this alone and have been posting the same three links, but I don't like being called a troll for this sort of thing, and I feel everyone's answer has been along the lines of "he's a dick and deserves all he gets" and completely ignoring the information presented.
 

Flying Dagger

New member
Apr 14, 2009
1,344
0
0
The dangers of mob mentality are well documenter and can be incredibly dangerous even when going against people worth forming a mob to attack

How to create the mob mentality? Lets look here. Apply the first paragraph to what Gabe's actions were - he consolidated flammable material, provided oxygen to burn and lit a spark - knowing full well what the consequences would be.

Or maybe you think this is justified because of some form of vigilantism? (if you have argued along the lines of "if we don't do this he wouldn't be stopped, then you are arguing for this) yet this is disproved thoroughly here

Maybe you think internet abuse isn't really that bad? Well it's punishable by law here(for dark reasons - internet defamation led to a young girls suicide)Or punishable universally in the US here

Please people - do the required reading It's in blue like this before making an argument, there is no adequate defence for this sort of action - and it is this form of righteous knee jerk reactionary crowd mindset that we must be wary of.
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
ChildofGallifrey said:
Wereduck said:
There's certainly something to the idea that the backlash here is excessive and out of control but in the larger context I think that's a good thing.

Christoforo thought he could ignore, deceive, threaten and otherwise betray everyone involved in his professional life and that calling it his job left him blameless.

The Avenger guys hired Christoforo because he was cheap and aggressive. They disregarded the warnings of their original PR firm because quality was less important to them than hustle and bottom line. They obviously didn't follow up on Christoforo's "industry contacts" or on how he was representing their company because they didn't want to know and they didn't think it was their problem. They thought that hiring an outside consultant would absolve them of their responsibilities.

Does anyone seriously believe that this is the first time something like this has happened? Are we really so foolish to believe that other companies aren't doing the same thing because it's cost-effective and they don't see any downside? Our society would greatly benefit if Ocean and the Avenger implode so severely that lecturers will talk about them in Business 101 as an example that deniability only goes so far. If there were more stories like this we might not need the Occupy protests because businessmen could look at the evidence and see a legitimate reason for ethical behavior. As things stand today, acting like a sociopath is just good business and that needs to change.

Christoforo's son doesn't deserve what he's getting here but his wife chose to marry an arrogant amoral douchebag. Also it's regrettable that the Avenger product has to go down the toilet along with it's manufacturer but let's not forget the real victims here are the disabled gamers and their friends/family who tried to buy it.

I have very little pity for people who thought they could lie down with dogs and not wake up with fleas.
There needs to be a Youtube style thumbs up/thumbs down option so I can thumb up the holy shit out of this comment. I've been saying the exact same thing about his family. His son (if indeed he has a son. I'm not prepared to believe a damn thing he says) is the only true innocent here.

That being said, the threats do need to stop though. His wife isn't blameless, but her only crime is staying with this meta-**** after the domestic battery incident.
Can I add an enthusiastic thumbs up as well?
 

Cyrus Hanley

New member
Oct 13, 2010
403
0
0
ghost whistler said:
DrSativa said:
I feel really sorry for this guy's family, especially the wife and her newborn baby. If this guy really is a roid fueled douchebag, then someone should seriously offer the wife a quiet talk about spousal abuse and whether or not she's been exposed to it in the past or currently. These types of idiots don't put the blame on themselves for screwing up, but instead will lash out at anything weaker in an effort for them to retain their 'control', which is of course in reality totally non-existent. To say the least, the poor woman is not going to be having a very happy New Year, and that just plain sucks. Just think about what she's got to look forward to, a man who can't bring home the bread and because of the roids he's taking probably has no more bacon either...
If you have evidence that he engages in spousal abuse I would suggest you talk to the proper authorities and not engage in puerile internet banter. That's not even funny.

Seriosly, some people need to grow the fuck up.
Here [http://courtindex.sdcourt.ca.gov/CISPublic/casedetail?casenum=DVN14325&casesite=NC&applcode=D] is the evidence.
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
Makon said:
How the topic changes and evolves over the course of a single day...

I think we can all agree that Paul is an insufferable twat. I think we can also agree that (so far as we know) his family was not involved in his dealings in any way, and as such should be crossed off of 'the hit list'. It also isn't like the internet 'mob' is going through his garbage to steal his bank account numbers or are writing terrorist-style manifestos before calling in bomb threats in his name. So far as the online community has done, they've traced emails to steroid use and a three year old domestic violence case. That's it.

With that said, some will note that I share a number of points of view as Gabe from PA. Paul's family is a definite no-go zone, the product and 'Ocean Marketting [sic]' are two ENTIRELY separate entities, so review-bombing it on Amazon and such is doing nothing beneficial for anyone (or detrimental for Paul). To that end, I have absolutely no problems watching people dig up more proof of Paul's incompetence as a human being.

I've noticed some people accuse that if, theoretically, Paul did remove himself from the equation (you know what I am talking about), the blood would be on the internet community's hands. That statement is incorrect: Any decisions that Paul makes going forward are his and his alone. Like I said above, the worst that the web community has done is make events from his past public, they haven't and can not put a gun to his head and pull the trigger.

To that end, I actually hold hesitation on if Paul's family has actually received any threats against his family's well-being, though maybe against Paul himself. The only person to explicitly state that there have been any threats is Paul himself, and I believe we all know what his word is worth these days. Grant it, we do know the nature of the internet so such a thing as those kinds of threats wouldn't surprise me, but I'd put more stock in the possibility if they came from anyone but the known liar that is the 'victim' (Paul).

To cap it off, to those that say "Well he just shot his mouth off, you can't tell me you never have done that!", I have this to say. Paul consistently managed to insult and demean multiple customers over an extensive period of time (months), with only this latest escapade of his making the headlines. Unless he's been having consistently bad days throughout his employment, which I highly doubt, that excuse holds no water.

There is also a fine line between personally and professionally running your mouth off. Personally, yes, everyone does it. To deny that fact either means you are lying, or that you are a robot and are incapable of emotions. Professionally, over email no less (since it eliminates knee-jerk responses), it is an entirely different matter that any sensible human being understands. Paul didn't just have a bad day at work and shoot his mouth off to a customer in front of him, he has been behaving like the uncultured and spineless antagonistic coward that he is, over an extended period of time, simply because he could.
I think you just summed up my thoughts on this matter.