Update: Richard Garriott: "Most Game Designers Really Just Suck"

[Mirthen]

"Other than a few exceptions, like Chris Roberts, I've met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am,"

So either he didn't met a lot of designers, or he is extremly cocky.
He does have a valid point though. A lot of games nowadays are 'copies' of older games with extension to the same mechanics the 'copied' games extended/invented/redefined.

But imo there are various reasons for this, not only laziness of designers.

eg.

- pressure from publishers
- big team size (yep thats a problem, mixing many visions can result in problems)
- personal preferences (designers tend to make things they like, thats not necessarily lazy)
- keeping the core feeling of a franchise. (doing this and changing enough to make it feel fresh is a hard task)
- etc.

These are mostly reasons that can be found in mid to big sized companies.

For smaller companies or starters the problems can get bigger!
Sure every indistudio/gamedesigner should try creating a great game first!
But those smaller groups need a point to start, to learn from. And they want to make games in a way they are played!
This is what will enabe them to make more games!
I think there is nothing wrong with using well known things and just flavoring them up a bit.
Especially when they are good! There is no need for innovation for the sake of innovation. (Didn't Jim Sterling post a video about this lately?)


I hope my first post isn't to bad.
Just signed in after a long time beeing a silent visitor to this site just for answering this.
Oh and I hope my english is at least understandable.

 

[piinyouri]

As someone who is fairly unversed with Mr.Garriot's shenanigans, has he always been that much of a pretentious dick?

I mean yeah I can agree with the base idea of what he means as sometimes I too believe a lot of the designers out there must be dead in the brain or at the least asleep on the job.

But this just doesn't seem like a good way to present yourself.

 

[ksn0va]

Peter Molyneux is good now?

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well he officially earned his Old Man card right there.
"Did you haveto crawl to school 50 miles every day through a blizzard wearing nothing but a loin cloth?! Well then you suck!", said every grandpa who ever lived.

He has a point on most just repeating an old formula but he also hasn't brought anything of value for about 15 years now, not to mention where Peter Molyneux and Will Right ended up...
Got to have something to prop that high stool of yours up before you call everyone a schmuck.

 

[Zombie_Moogle]

Delusions of grandeur aside, he might have a point

Mainstream gaming gets bigger & shinier pretty much daily, where as the actual quality of games steadily declines, to the point that games barely/don't even function (lookin at you, EA)

Could be that publishers push for more resources being put into engines & textures, while the design department takes cut-backs

 

[Farther than stars]

[...]Oh and I hope my english is at least understandable.

It was fine; a very good contribution to the argument and actually quite a lot more outlined than Garriott's off-the-cuff remarks. However, you might want to hesitate when quoting Sterling. He's not exactly an authority on being right either.
Oh, and welcome to the Escapist.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

just because he's the father of rpg's or whatever people want to make of him, it doesnt excuse 2 simple facts:

1. you just don't act like that, it's extremely douchey.
2. if he is so much better than anyone out there, why hasnt he made anything notable since his early years?you don't just get a free pass to claim godliness because you did something 20 years ago.

where is his mention of Sam Houser (or is it Dan?) or Ken Levine or Brian Fargo, or hell, even Suda51. in fact Suda51 is a perfect example of maybe not technically perfect game design, but an attempt at tackling game design in a new way. if nothing else, he deserves credit for trying something new.

i don't like this guy, and won't buy his products. you've made the list Lord Douche. on that list is also the Fez guy, Phil Fish or something. or EA, ever since Colored Space Magic.

 

[Kaiser6012]

Oh... oh dear.

Hey, Mr. Garriott/British? Remember that Ultima series you created? Wasn't humility included as one of them virtues that, you know, the ENTIRE GAMES were built around upholding?
Yeesh. I've heard some crazy-provocative things in my day, but this just has to take the cake. Seriously, whatever thoughts you might have need to be couched in such a way to not make you look like you're giving everyone in sight a right hook across the snout! He just looks... well, so pretentious it isn't funny.

*cough*TabulaRasa*cough*

So... what was actually bad about Tabula Rasa from a design perspective? I've not played the game and heard rather little about the mechanics and core concept, so I would appreciate some clarification.
Remember, screwed by the execs or such isn't bad design. I think waaaay too much of that happens nowadays (SimCity server debacle, Darksiders not being produced anymore etc.) to be able to blame someone for it happening to them.

Oh, by the way, Ultima Online's still turning a pretty penny for EA, I hear. last check, a conservative estimate was about 100,000 accounts held in 2011. That ain't bad for the first popularly-received MMO, particularly in this day and age.

 

[Mirthen]

However, you might want to hesitate when quoting Sterling. He's not exactly an authority on being right either.
Oh, and welcome to the Escapist.

Well I didn't thought of it as a backup for my argument. It was more like: 'Hmm I recall hearing this sentence lately.'

@ksn0va:

Well he was good once. Later he was good, but promised to much to fans. Lately he is imo not as good as he used to be, but at least he is a decent game designer.

I think the biggest problem Gariott, Peter Molyneux and Will Right have is, that they are sort of veterans. They are game designers for a long time. It's hard to tie in with former glory. And in case of Richard Gariott it seems he is still thinks he is as glorious as he used to be.

 

[Treblaine]

While I do agree with his sentiment, it's not helped by the way he puts it:

"Other than a few exceptions, I've met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am,"
-Lord British 2013

But seriously... some way too many games I wonder if they even HAVE designers, there only seems to be any kind of significant design in the programming (pushing pixel performance) and art (make a 3D render of the latest gun they saw at an NFA gunshow), the actual core structure of the game seems to be wholly lifted from other games (often from completely different dev teams) with no gameplay vision at all.

Even bioshock, as much as I appreciate that game, it didn't do enough to pioneer on gameplay.

All to often variety is purely superficial. I'm much more impressed by a game with bland art, poorly coded graphical performance but a really lever and engaging gameplay design and pacing.

Old games seem to have ideas that seem to have been completely forgotten today:

 

[Fasckira]

Still not as big a **** as Mr Blow.

To give him his credit, he is a good game designer just implementation tends to wobble a bit. Coming out and slating other designers though is a bit of a shitty thing to do though.

 

[mattaui]

I do suggest going to read the entire PC Gamer article, as it's a very interesting read and he's got a lot more to say. Of course, there's no getting around sheer arrogance, which even if you can back it up still makes you sound pretty unlikable. Yes, I grew up playing all his Ultima games and I really enjoyed them, so there's no question that he was the first designer to do so much of what we now consider part of the CRPG standard. I just wish, as other posters have noted, that he remembered one of the virtues of the Avatar was humility.

The full quote does help soften the blow a bit:

"But other than a few exceptions, like Chris Roberts, I?ve met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am. I?m not saying that because I think I?m so brilliant. What I?m saying is, I think most game designers really just suck, and I think there?s a reason why.?

And really, the fact that The Escapist left out part of the quote, without indicating it, is pretty bad form.

 

[camscottbryce]

"I've met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am. I'm not saying that because I think I'm so brilliant. What I'm saying is, I think most game designers really just suck."

I feel like the second sentence will hopefully piss people off less about this whole thing.

Regardless, it was a bold statement. That being said, I do wonder if designers really just suck in the industry. The gaming community blames a lot of stuff on publishers and big teams, but what if a lot of designers are absolutely terrible to begin with?

 

[SinisterGehe]

He's such an amazing game designer, in fact he's so good that I don't actually recall ever playing one of his games.


That's talent right there.

If you look at hes Ultima games, the design decision are bat shit fucking insane... And do not say it was because of the technology, it wasn't....

Also City of Heroes... No one still has explained to me, if there is city full of heroes - why the fuck are the thieves running rampart around.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Yeah, no.

Sorry [i/]Lord British[/i], but you are simply wrong in your initial statement.

You've put out your fair share of shit. Furthermore, there are so many excellent games coming out every year, it makes absolutely no sense to say all designers suck.

I think he may be on to something with the funneling thing though. I think it can be true that people who just love games, but don't really have innate talent are the ones who go into design. It CAN be true. Here and there. There is a HINT of validity to that.

Otherwise, this sounded like a drunken rant.

 

[Ickabod]

This really goes hand in hand with the Jimquestion this week. Most game designers throw in an extra gun and call it innovation, true innovation comes from some of the stand outs in the industry. It doesn't always work, but they are trying to make something better.

 

[Charli]

Garriot you know you can level up your social graces AND game design skills.

There's no limit on IRL stat points.

 

[Quellist]

*falls off chair laughing* "good game designer?" *splutters*

Oh mr Garriot, what an arrogant dick you are, no doubt fapping away while you remember your old successes, but wait, after those successes were some less liked games, remember? First there was Pagan and wasnt that a fantastic new way to take the series? oh wait, no it wasnt! you turned Ultima into a single player platformer! oh deary me....then there was Ultima "whats a paladin?" IX with its juvenile plot and dialog (i wont blame him for the 3D, i will blame him for the story), sorry bug-ridden mess that it was. Then Tabula Rasa and didnt that set the gaming world alight....oh wait a minute, NO it didnt!

Personally i hope SotA is going to be a trainwreck that only succeeds in Garriots fevered imagination, sorry if thats mean but as far as i am concerned Garriot is so high on the smell of his own crap he's in another dimension and this article proves it.