Update: Riot Files Patent for "Self-Moving Camera" for Online Spectators

Naqel

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Nov 21, 2009
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Dexterity said:
1. After Orianna's release, all champions were priced at 6300ip.
2. Then after that, skins began to get priced at 1350rp (despite Riot saying they were only going to have a single 1350 skin)
3. After that, they started releasing champions at around 7000ip for the first week of their release
4. Then, they started pricing up skins altogether
At the same time, they have been regularly reducing the prices on older content and improving the quality of ALL(not just new) content, both in the skins and champions departments.

Price increases are a convenient "riot is evil" argument when taken out of context, but the reality of it is that they are A: a buissiness, and B: working hard for those increases to be justified.

Sure, patent trolling(that's what it looks like to me) might not be something that'd look good on their resume, but even with the recent sreaming restrictions fiasco they still have plenty of goodwill backed up to be wasting on stupid things.
 

Parnage

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Apr 13, 2010
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Remember kids, Reddit as a source makes you look like you haven't done your homework..

http://www.riotgames.com/articles/20140206/1165/no-interest-using-patents-offensively Oh hey look an actual response posted yesterday on the subject..

I shouldn't have to remind people that time Sony and Microsoft where sued over patent violations because of there rumblepacks while nintendo(who had filed a patent for it's own) was not by one of these patent troll companies.
 

Naqel

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Dexterity said:
Also, the only parts of the game that I see improved since I started the game over a year ago are that Evelynn is no longer ridiculously underpowered, there're two new game modes (one of which could have been implemented a LONG time ago), and there's spectating.
Several champions had all of their models redone from scratch at a much higher polygon count, nearly double the armature bones(more detailed animation), and extra flavor added to their various skins, all of those had to diferent degrees been also updated in terms of gameplay to better match the current standards. Most of those were old 450 IP champions, so that's work with close to no return in terms of monetization.

And that's just the so called "relaunch initiative".

You seriously have to not have touched the game for at least a year to not know about this.
 

Vivi22

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Aug 22, 2010
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mindfaQ said:
Dota 2 already has this. Patent system sucks and needs to be reformed. Will this even go through, since it already exists elsewhere?
I'm no expert on US patent law, but I've seen enough stupid shit related to it to know that I wouldn't bet against it.

The US patent system is a broken mess that actively discourages innovation rather than encouraging it. At some point in history, I'm sure it worked pretty well, but it needs to be updated for the existence of software. Hell, I don't even think software should be patentable. Certainly not abstract concepts of things you could do with the right coding. It's utterly absurd and only hampers software development to have companies independently develop other methods of doing the exact same thing only to have to deal with constant lawsuits from patent trolls.
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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bringer of illumination said:
You mean that thing that Dota 2 has had for more than a fucking year?

Geesh, Riot sure are fucking shameless.

I mean, it'd be one thing if they just chose to ape Valve's very, very good spectator mode for Dota 2, and frankly it's about time, the spectator tools for League of Legends have been beyond pathetic for a long time.

But now they have the sheer bloody gall to come in and patent it.

Christ.
league's actually had this feature since before DOTA2 launched and they're not going to be patent trolls themselves (and if they do, feel free to rage all you want). cooling your jets in the meantime might be recommended.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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I like how everyone saying DOTA2 did it first doesn't realize LoL has had this camera feature in spectator mode before DOTA2 was even out.
 

Sight Unseen

The North Remembers
Nov 18, 2009
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How can they patent something that already exists? Valve has had this feature in dota 2 since it launched in beta years ago. A patent by definition is for a novel, non-obvious invention, and since Valve has already made it it's no longer novel.

Hopefully this patent will be denied on that basis.
 
Mar 19, 2010
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mindfaQ said:
Dota 2 already has this. Patent system sucks and needs to be reformed. Will this even go through, since it already exists elsewhere?
Weaver said:
I like how everyone saying DOTA2 did it first doesn't realize LoL has had this camera feature in spectator mode before DOTA2 was even out.
Autodirector has been part of all source games since CS Source i believe and i am certain that it has been in TF2 since 2007 and it is pretty good too. So yeah good job Riot on trying to patent something that has been invented like 10 years ago or maybe even more.
 

Legion

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Oct 2, 2008
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I get the impression this is being done to stop some patent troll filing for it and then trying to sue the creators of LOL for also doing it.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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Legion said:
I get the impression this is being done to stop some patent troll filing for it and then trying to sue the creators of LOL for also doing it.
They released a statement saying exactly that: they're not interested in chasing after other people using the function as well, but they don't want to deal with patent trolls who do. Whether they're telling the truth or not is another story, but I'd like to think they're not dumb enough to go back on their word.
 

james.sponge

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bringer of illumination said:
You mean that thing that Dota 2 has had for more than a fucking year?

Geesh, Riot sure are fucking shameless.

I mean, it'd be one thing if they just chose to ape Valve's very, very good spectator mode for Dota 2, and frankly it's about time, the spectator tools for League of Legends have been beyond pathetic for a long time.

But now they have the sheer bloody gall to come in and patent it.

Christ.
Well actually if you consider other games, Valve's TF2 and CS:S both have these features (not sure about CS1.6 though)
 

MrPhyntch

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Dexterity said:
Anyone who raises the "but it's free to play" argument just has no idea what they're talking about. A MOBA where you don't have access to most of the characters is not free to play, especially when league's system forces you to spend most of your IP on runes instead of champions.
Just wanna address this statement here. I don't know what game of League you've been playing, but the one I play Runes are completely useless until level thirty. Meaning you have roughly 20-25 levels of acquiring IP to spend on champions before you have to start saving for runes. With only a year and a half of League under my belt, and only around 700 wins, I have over half the roster easily in my possession, and have spent "real money" on like 5, tops. Hell, I'm currently sitting on 9000 IP, because no one that's out really catches my interest. This includes having all the Runes and Rune Pages I really need. So don't give me that bollocks about "not truly free to play", it has exactly what it needs to be fully functional. Yeah, at level 30 when you're just grinding IP for new champs (after the point you probably have most if not all the cheaper ones) it's kinda a slog, but by then most people should be more focused and less concerned about having access to as many champs as possible.

As to the main topic at hand:

Yeah, I have a little concern. This is, after all, the company that banned specific games from appearing on their pro's streams, so I'm not sure I'd put it past Riot to use this to get at the competition. That being said, it's a much better prospect than someone else filing this patent and suing the crap out of League and DOTA2 for "t3h monehs", because frankly Riot's past with IP laws is a very pleasing one.

Also, people, bitching on the internet doesn't do anything to help the situation, and with the promises made there's we should have some assurance that Riot will do the right thing. Save the internet rage for when Riot starts using it to bully DOTA, if it happens.
 

MrPhyntch

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Dexterity said:
So it took you a year and a half to get around half of the roster? In a game where counter picking and lane choices are quite important? Taking almost two years to be able to choose so little of the roster isn't a good thing, I don't know why you're trying to argue that it is.

And the IP you get from level 1-20 needs to be used on runes. Quintessences cost about 1000-2000ip each, and you need 3 per rune page. Considering that on my main account I have about 5 different quintessence types for all of my champions, that's a lot of IP, much more than I could have ever gotten from playing level 1-30. Let's also not forget about the red, blue and yellow runes that you need. Again, I have about 5 different types of each one, and different combinations due to having about 10 rune pages.

Runes are designed to be an IP sink so players have a reason to spend RP on champions, they always have been and always will.
1. Counter-picking only exists in ranked, and players who really care about ranked will either play enough to buy a 6300 champ in two days or will just pay real money for them anyway. For people who just play normals, or people like me who will occasionally dip into ranked maybe once a week, then really all you need for competitive advantage/play variety is 2 or 3 champs in each lane/role, depending how you define it, that is anywhere between 10 and 25 of 117 champs. (okay, sidebar here, you need 16 champs to even be allowed to play ranked, so maybe for ranked players that number can be as high as 35)

Also, last time I posted, I didn't realize how many champs there actually were, I thought there were more than there are. By the count I just looked up, I own about 70% of champions.

2. Again, I don't know what game you're playing. I went all the way to level 30 without buying a single rune or saving up, only buying champs (I had over 30 before I hit level 30, and none of them were the 450IP ones) and sure I had a few issues at first, but it didn't take more than a week for me to have enough to be on par enough in-game. Runes are not as important as most people think. Sure, you can't jungle without good runes, but overall their stat advantage can easily be nullified with a little bit of skill and/or well bought items. The only place Runes are actually required are at the very bottom and very top tier levels of play, or in the Jungle.

3. While yes, this is true, reread point 2. Runes are and IP sink. But they also help boost aspects of play for certain people, and can provide small amounts of variety in playstyles of even the same champ between multiple people. The general idea among most people is to buy champs to level 20-25, save up for "standard" runes (Attack Speed/AP red, armor yellow, mr blue, and movement quints) that will get you roughly on par with other players once you hit 30, and really the rest is cosmetic, you get more as you play more.

Runes could be worse, you could be able to pay real money for them, making it an actual "pay to win" title.

I'm trying to figure out why you're demonizing them so much. You're using blatant over exaggeration and simplification of personal stories that don't correlate with actual data, and are presenting it as irrefutable fact. There's plenty of reasons to hate Riot; their emphasis on LoL as a sport, their inability to balance champions, not following up on promises to their most loyal supporters (early referral system users and purchasers of limited skins from the first couple of years, you know what I mean), their haughtiness and misrepresentation of where they actually are in the world as a company, the list goes on. The ONE thing that Riot does well that is held up as the golden boy that any company could, nay should, emulate, however, is their pricing model.
 

Dandark

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This actually makes me happy. I liked Riot a lot when I played League a lot and though I was getting annoyed with them before I stopped due to crappy servers I still think they are one of the better gaming companies.
Yeah it sucks that they keep saying "We won't increase prices" and then increase prices a few months later but they are generally a pretty good developer.

Also to the argument above my post.
Yeah runes are annoying as hell to have to spend IP on but they are not that big a deal. You will want to pick them up eventually but unless your planning to really get into the game they are not that big a deal outside of the jungle, and really who wants to jungle when playing with randoms?