Upon The Mary Sue Character in Video Games

[Erttheking]

In case anyone else was curious

Oh my god...

Spoiler

Sonic fans are weird.

Other than that, I really like that quote. To much writing is needlessly verbose, or stretched too far. Oddly enough though, I'd say that the opposite is true of a lot of visual art. Whenever I watch someone doing digital art every 5 minutes I think "I would have stopped adding details now". Then they refine the lighting some more, I think it again, they refine the shadows, again, add texture, and so on...

...What the fuck is going on with that thing's torso?

Well, at least you're not associated with THIS thing.

Spoiler

http://img01.deviantart.net/71c4/i/2011/195/b/a/david_the_hedgehog_by_black_lane230-d3qvuz5.jpg

Though both scream "Try hard"

Yeah I like to avoid insulting fanbases as a whole, but there's no denying that while Sonic has plenty of normal fans, there's this following of self inserts and obession that I REALLY don't get. And frankly I don't want to.

 

[Blazing Hero]

I don't know what's the deal with Sonic fans. I think MLP attracts a similar crowd though, what with the self-insertion and such.

There definitely are parallels but I honestly don't find bronies nearly as creepy. A lot of bronies are in it more for the community then the show. Hell some seem to like it just to challenge perceptions of masculinity. Sonic fans on the other hand come across as very strangely fixated on the characters. Everyone of them I have met on the internet comes off as someone very sexually suppressed.

 

[Trooper924]

I don't know. Personally, I've always felt that the whole "Sonic fans are creepy weirdos" thing was blown out of proportion. Like, people only focused on the most egregious offenders and presenting them as the norm while ignoring the sane, non-obsessive fans who go about their lives. I mean, what fandom doesn't have people making crappy self-insert ocs or draw porn of the main characters?

But then, that [X} the hedgehog game is pretty damning. And for all my talk, I've only had limited interaction with the Sonic fandom, so it could very well a different story on the front lines as it were. (Not that I'm in a rush to find out. I value my sanity too much.)

 

[Jsan the Candyman]

I don't know what's the deal with Sonic fans. I think MLP attracts a similar crowd though, what with the self-insertion and such.

I'm not going to defend or attack either side for things that can be perceived as strange and weird. I have no clue what it's like on the sonic side of things, but us MLP fans at least embrace the weirdness. Self insertion, Sonic fans have us beat in that department. I don't see it that much other than in fanfics and the once-in-a-blue-moon comic. Instead of desiring to BE a pony, we have more of a desire to BE WITH ponies, as in "The real world sucks, Equestria looks awesome, let's go there!" No clue what's going through Sonic fans' minds.

Now people do use pony OCs frequently, but they're more for the purposes of a stage name or online persona as opposed to self insertion.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Spoiler

http://img01.deviantart.net/71c4/i/2011/195/b/a/david_the_hedgehog_by_black_lane230-d3qvuz5.jpg

"Krank"? That is some very inventive onomatopoeia.

I prefer to look at this picture with the interpretation that it's a large lollipop stick that he's crushing in his hand instead of a lead pipe.

The lollipop was bubblegum flavored

 

[Thanatos2k]

Sonic was cooler before he started talking. The quality of the games dive around the same time. Compare with Mario and Link, who kept their jabbering to a minimum even after they entered a gaming age where they could have been voice acted.

 

[Ukomba]

This was half video games and half unnecessarily ripping on furries.

I can get behind this kind of content.

Careful, that's not PC, the proper term is Transspecies.

 

[Dalisclock]

I don't know what's the deal with Sonic fans. I think MLP attracts a similar crowd though, what with the self-insertion and such.

Doesn't MLP at least have the excuse of a quality base show to go off of? I was never a sonic fan, but I've gotten the impression from the web that there hasn't been a good sonic...anything in at least a decade if not longer.

That and MLP doesn't take itself that seriously and has done Pony inserts/cameos of characters from other shows/films/etc on occasion as one off jokes.

 

[Olas]

I think there's something people find appealing about the Sonic the Hedgehog aesthetic. It's sorta like a mix between furry and anime, with some added sleekness. Personally I can't stand the way the eyes join in the middle, it looks wrong. And they should NEVER be put alongside any realistic looking human characters, it's just jarring.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Now I just wonder which came first: furries or Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[Kerric]

Oddly enough, I could not find a "Yahtzee the Hedgehog" image. This needs to be rectified.

My name also does not have a hedgehog. However, it had a dingo and a hedgebat (whatever that may be) image.

 

[marioandsonic]

The first Sonic game I owned was Sonic Adventure 2 Battle on the Gamecube when I was about 11 years old. At the time, I loved it, and I got more Sonic games as the years went by. But after the baffling mess of Shadow the Hedgehog and the complete disaster of Sonic 06, I pretty much gave up on Sonic.

I still enjoy the Genesis trilogy as classics, and I still see both Adventure games as enjoyable, even if they have some big flaws. However, I haven't bought a Sonic game new since then, except I did try both Unleashed and Generations years later, and while they both have their moments, I just don't have any faith in Sega to make a good Sonic game again.

And no, I have not looked at any of the dedicated online fan communities for Sonic. I tried once when I was younger, and I managed to stay on the forum for about five minutes before I gave up and closed the page because my brain started to hurt. I got out while I still could, and I never looked back.

Anyway, Freedom Planet is a great game, but I feel like the bad story of the game is going to overshadow all of that, and everyone will just mock it for the story and assume the whole game is bad. First impressions, and all that.

 

[inkheart_artist]

Oh man, I felt like you were about to go on an revelatory tangent near the end there, Yahtzee. I wish it hadn't ended at a quick little end-of-article gag. I hope you delve into the concept of why Sonic's fanbase tends to gravitate towards Sonic and not something else next time it's pertinent. Maybe see if there are any other examples of fans that do this with other series. I'd love to see how you could tie bad author-insert characters together with rabid fan bases in greater detail.

I can think of two off the top of my head that might be able to play into it: Pokemon and My Little Pony. I think a big part of it might be the ease of ability for someone to draw a character that fits into the world.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Dammit. Well, so much for my owl/axolotl/stick-insect OC self-insert. THANKS LOADS, CROSHAW

My point being, in writing, D&D, games I often see that people Mary Sue when they're novices. They think it's cool when their awesome character haxx0rz their way through life, defeating the ultimate uber big bad of evil evilness with barely any effort. I find those who've been writing or playing or working for longer in those areas tend to make more complicated characters who have genuine problems, as all humans do but aren't "omg so, like, dark".

Real characters are vastly more interesting, I don't think everyone needs a rampant mental disorder or daddy issues or whatever but it is nice when we're not perfect, especially because it facilitates the easiest character developments. Recovering from a failure to overcome whatever caused it or working past a flaw can be fascinating and interesting...

'Tis true. And generally the reason behind it is that experience with life in general, and exposure to the works of others, teaches us to see and appreciate the nuances of real people better, and brings us to want to express those things in the characters we create. I'll admit that when I started writing, a lot of my main characters were of the "cursed with awesome" set, able to do things few others could do but saddled with conditions like "they don't know how to process emotions". Power fantasies, really. It became a lot more enjoyable to develop characters who had entire lives, flaws and problems like anyone else, even if they only got a couple lines of dialogue in one appearance. Like the saying goes: "Everyone's the lead character in their own story."

 

[Magmarock]

Hi there Yahtzee. Regarding Freedom Plants story and cut scenes I actually really enjoyed it and I didn't really get a Mary sue vibe from it at all. I got more of a Saturday morning cartoon vibe from it which I really enjoyed. Also the main villein had a really cool voice. I grew up with the old sonic games on the Mega Drive but I'd never call myself a ?sonic fan? Sonic 2 was my favourite while Sonic 3 and Knuckles where fun I still preferred the second one. In your review of FP you said Sonic games were elegantly designed and I thought ?hang on, is this the same Yahtzee.? I might have agreed before I played FP but after seeing how much better those mischance can be; I can say that Freedom Plant really has put Sonic to shame. Both the new and even the olds. In other words, I don't think it' fair to say that the old Sonic games have aged well. Not after this.

I think the same can be said about the character design as well. Weather their too you're liking or not they still do a better job then Sonic. I remember when I first saw Knuckles as a kid and thinking ?what the hell is that thing? I've always hated the character designs of the sonic games. Outside of Sonic himself from Sonic 2 and tails they all look awful to me. I wouldn't all it anthropomorphic. Not sure what I'd call it. Maybe a tennis ball with pipe cleaners.

 

[Magmarock]

I didn't play the game, so the freedom planed characters are annoying, unrelateable self-insert mary-sues and the story is bad?
The article just kinda stopped when going into sonic weirdness and didn't bring any concrete examples besides a bunny-dog thing having no place in the narrative up.

I keep hearing it's a good game.

Oh wow ownage. Yeah I think Yahtzee can't quite get past the rule 34 thing regarding the Sonic fan base. I loved FP and thought the story was entertaining enough. About as entertaining as morning cartoon. Not sure what he was expecting.

 

[Worgen]

I don't know what's the deal with Sonic fans. I think MLP attracts a similar crowd though, what with the self-insertion and such.

Doesn't MLP at least have the excuse of a quality base show to go off of? I was never a sonic fan, but I've gotten the impression from the web that there hasn't been a good sonic...anything in at least a decade if not longer.

That and MLP doesn't take itself that seriously and has done Pony inserts/cameos of characters from other shows/films/etc on occasion as one off jokes.

It also helps that MLP has a big enough world for people to have an oc type character and it to just be a thing without them having to be some huge robot stomping badass kinda thing.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Yeah, the problem with Mary Sue characters is that it makes it harder for someone to create their own OCs and not have them considered Mary Sues. (BTW, I'm working out my own Sonic characters, but am currently stymied on what canon to put them in). Er, anyway, there's also the issues of the fans who take things waaaayyyy too far and pretty much ruin things for everyone else. (I shouldn't have to name names, do I?)

Also, I looked up (my name) the Hedgehog on Google images... and sorely wish I hadn't.