They couldn't be sent to Venezuela and they weren't welcome here. That's the justification.
US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
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So you do, in fact, endorse punishment-- severe punishment, max security imprisonment and torture-- for people if the gov decides (on whatever whim) it doesn't want them here anymore.
And punishment without trial, charge or guilt. Regardless of whether they broke any rules, or if they were explicitly allowed in the country before and had not been told anything changed.
Grotesque, pointless cruelty.
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I just found this out in some news and this video from The Humanist Report. No shocker: a lot of the people who joined ICE are bullies who either peaked in high school, failed the psych test/evaluations for police and/or military, and most are poorly educated or college drop outs with no real plans at all. Sadly, a lot of people who joined ICE are either Mexican or of Latino descent of some kind. Or they're illegal immigrants or related to illegal immigrants themselves. So there's the cognitive dissonance and not seeing the irony, or thinking they will be ultra exception, because they're the "good ones or not exactly one of them". There is a sub-reddit post from these ICE guys who didn't get paid, and still have not, but I don't want to get in trouble for linking that part of reddit. They do mention the reddit posts in the video.
It's not punishment. Deportation, even to CECOT, does not exist to punish the individuals. It's to remove them from the country. That it sucks for them is incidental, that is not the purpose, the purpose is removal.
Part of the reason there is such a high bar for enacting punishments is that the frequently serve no purpose beyond justice and the disincentive for more crime. The removal of people who are not supposed to be here is a purpose in itself, it's not about punishment. Your thinking on this applied to any government action leads to people being wackos who think every government action that doesn't help them is a form of persecution. You could just as well be saying "cruelty is the point" for literally everything, from war to tax increases, because someone always gets the short end of the stick. That's not the same as punishment.
This absolutely does not fly.
Imprisonment is what happened. It happened at the US government's request; they negotiated and paid for it to happen. Then they publically justified it by arguing the people deserved it because of various crimes they had never been charged with. It was categorically not "incidental".
They could have changed their status, given some notice as required by law, and then removed them to a third country as free people. Such is done often without this much backlash. They chose not to. They chose imprisonment (in a facility internationally renowned for torture and abuse, no less, which is then what proceeded to happen).
You cannot do whatever the fuck you want to someone, have whatever suffering inflicted on them, and then be absolved by arguing that your purpose was just to have them gone and so any suffering you intentionally inflicted isn't important.
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Seems the public won and the brownshirts lost. For now at least
Trump administration says it is ending its immigration surge in Minneapolis
Trump administration says it is ending its immigration surge in Minneapolis
We've been through this almost a year ago at this point. Everything I said in my last post was accurate:
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All Minnesota had to do was have local law enforcement cooperate with federal agencies and none of that would've happened and now they are FINALLY doing it.
Yes, we have indeed been over this before. You seem to believe that if a court finds something illegal, then its only illegal if it was done after they said that. That's not how it works. Not a year ago and not now. The court can find something was done illegally.
There are a few people that may need to be deported, I argue it's rare, and should be rare but it can happen. It should be at the level of denationalization before Trump, but it can happen. It's a policy tool.
So then why all the protesting if they misinterpreted the law once and haven't since? And tons of stuff is done illegally for years like the Chicago unconstitutional handgun ban lasted 30 years. You guys make all these claims like Trump isn't going to listen to judges and just keep doing illegal stuff, that hasn't happened just like I said it wouldn't.
‘It’s happening here’: ICE turns quiet Minnesota suburbs into conflict zones
Activity of immigration agents has left no part of the state unscathed even as border czar says surge would be ending
www.theguardian.com
As is yours, since we're just shooting the shit on an internet forum.
Regardless, it's not a matter of opinion what happened to these people (imprisonment), whether it happened to people who weren't found guilty or even charged with anything (it did), and whether it was done at the request of the US government (it was). Your opinion is that this is fine. Mine is that it's not. Both are irrelevant opinions, in that neither will affect the outcome. But yours is obscene.
Because 1) this "interpretation" resulted in over a hundred people being imprisoned and tortured without ever having been found guilty or even charged with a crime, and 2) because the government never acknowledged it was a mistake at all, but rather insisted that they had every right to have people imprisoned and tortured without trial.
Yes, we're sending you to be imprisoned in the Terrorism Confinement Center. This isn't a punishment, though.
Another year another Munich security conference. This year that piece of filth Vance won't be leading the American deligation, but that won't matter much. The very fact Trump send that vermin to smear us to begin with means we can't just accept a change of tone and forget that the White House is filled by sociopaths that want to do us harm. So far Germany's Merz at least said the world won't return to normal anymore, and though he didn't say it we all know the cause of this is that American politicians and voters are inherently unreliable or even treasonus.
Its funny to see American politicians speak of ''change'' as if their craven actions aren't the cause of all the tension and conflict. They're not mere witnisses but the culprints.
Its funny to see American politicians speak of ''change'' as if their craven actions aren't the cause of all the tension and conflict. They're not mere witnisses but the culprints.
The world arguably has the least conflict it's ever had.
I assume in your world Trump and US are responsible for all this conflict as well.
Europe - 1900
Europe - 2000
Why do you think this argument works in your favor? If the current system led to ''arguably the least conflict'' then its a bad thing Trump so strongly wants to do away with this system. Its not the current(or already gone) rule based order or the translantic allies where Trump's symphaties lay.
That is just not what is happening on Planet Earth. In your delusional world you made up, sure.