US 2024 Presidential Election

[crimson5pheonix]

Hmm, except you clearly weren't just talking about the intent of the DNC. Direct quote: "I care about the idea that you can change the party from the inside. Hogg shows you can't."

The fact the DNC tried but failed to manipulate these positions is directly relevant to what you said. Sorry.

They booted the critic from his position. Anything anyone says from now on is on the understanding that you can be booted for their criticisms. In a normal world you would call this a chilling effect on speech.

But when it's the DNC it's fine. Because you lack ethics.

That's good energy-- I look forward to a similar level of aggressive rebuttal when Sean next trumpets for Russian imperialism! /s

You might have noticed I'm not a tanky. So I don't know where this came from other than your stress for being called out for your bullshit.

 

[Silvanus]

They booted the critic from his position. Anything anyone says from now on is on the understanding that you can be booted for their criticisms. In a normal world you would call this a chilling effect on speech.

But when it's the DNC it's fine. Because you lack ethics.

Ahhh, OK. I'm sure it was very chilling to know that one of the people they removed was immediately re-elected, and the other was replaced by someone more vocal. I'm chilled just thinking about it! Brrrr!

You might have noticed I'm not a tanky. So I don't know where this came from other than your stress for being called out for your bullshit.

I've noticed you keep shtum, mostly, if it's Sean and it's Russia.

The stress comment is a bit rich-- after your hyper-aggressive flip-out last post and the all-caps moment, I'd worry about your own blood pressure more than mine.

 

[Thaluikhain]

*waves*

Might I suggest that this argument isn't going anywhere, and it might be best for everyone to drop it?

 

[Silvanus]

*waves*

Might I suggest that this argument isn't going anywhere, and it might be best for everyone to drop it?

Of course that would be best, but I don't want to!

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Ahhh, OK. I'm sure it was very chilling to know that one of the people they removed was immediately re-elected, and the other was replaced by someone more vocal. I'm chilled just thinking about it! Brrrr!



I've noticed you keep shtum, mostly, if it's Sean and it's Russia.

I think you should keep in mind a turn of phrase about glass houses comrade, since you're keen to defend anti-democratic and anti-free speech behavior. I know who looks like the Stalinist around here.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

*waves*

Might I suggest that this argument isn't going anywhere, and it might be best for everyone to drop it?

I mean, it is probably smart to drop a conversation against someone who can't read, but what do I say? I keep falling for it.

 

[Silvanus]

I think you should keep in mind a turn of phrase about glass houses comrade, since you're keen to defend anti-democratic and anti-free speech behavior. I know who looks like the Stalinist around here.

Let's see the example.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Let's see the example.

Quoted in the post.

 

[Silvanus]

Quoted in the post.

Oh, you're talking about what the DNC did to Hogg being something I "defended".

Except I never defended it once. I said over and over again what they did was wrong. My point was that they failed.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Oh, you're talking about what the DNC did to Hogg?

Which I never defended once. I said over and over again what they did was wrong. My point was that they failed.

Well at least this is different. Instead of a failure to read, it's a failure to link cause and effect. So kuddos for graduating to that.

 

[Silvanus]

Well at least this is different. Instead of a failure to read, it's a failure to link cause and effect. So kuddos for graduating to that.

Nothing's different; I have consistently been saying, since the beginning, that their actions were a shitshow but that they failed in what they probably intended to do.

Problem is, you don't actually have cause-and-effect. The "effect" you would require to make your point-- an exclusion of progressives from those positions-- failed to materialise. What you have is called a failed attempt by the DNC, and the opposite of their intended impact.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Nothing's different; I have consistently been saying, since the beginning, that their actions were a shitshow but that they failed in what they probably intended to do.

He says, blowing off an attack on speech using capricious and arbitrary methods. Something that should be unthinkable in the realm of politics.

I'll remember this if you ever criticize conservatives for making chilling attacks on speech. I'll remember that you have no ethics other than what gets you back to brunch faster.

 

[tippy2k2]

Yes. I read, for instance, where you dismissed the new Vice Chair being vocally progressive, because they hadn't focused on age, which has "been the entire criticism this whole time".



Right, except those who don't, which includes the successful candidates who hold the positions you're talking about.



Oh really, you know this, do you? Because a minute ago you said you weren't keeping up with it, and here you referred to them as "he", which indicates you probably haven't actually bothered to find out anything about her.



He says, unaware of who this person even is or what they've done.

Just acknowledge this: you're not actually following what happened in this case. You didn't know who the successor was. You assumed they must be a toady because they were successful, but you didn't actually bother to even look them up.

I had thought the replacement was a girl but I mixed them up with someone else when I had read one of Crimson's earlier posts (Crimson was referring to someone else when I thought he was referring to the replacement so that's on me).

But yes, it's not something I've paid much attention to. So if you would like to prove me wrong and show me all the Progressive things to challenge The DNC she has said since being put in this position of power to show me that she hasn't just sat down and shut up like I said she had, feel free to. I expect that it hasn't happened as people who actually do speak out against The DNC and their practices generally come across my news feeds/Twitter feeds/Discord talks/whatever because those are the kinds of people I celebrate and want to know more about but I AM making an assumption here that she hasn't done that since she hasn't shown up making waves in my usual circles.

Because that's the entire point of this long ass discussion here. Hogg rocked the DNC Boat and challenged the Old Guard and was slapped down for it. Conrad, from what I've seen in the news cycle, has sat down and kept her mouth shut to make sure she doesn't piss off the powers of The DNC. You are free to show me evidence showing otherwise because I am well aware that it's not impossible that I have missed it.

Ultimately though, it may not even matter. Like...let's say for fun that I agree with you that this was a "Success Story". I STILL would say tearing down The Democrats and building a new party would be the better option as even with how wildly popular Mamdani has been, they're still doing everything in their power to stop him (even though he is supposed to be the Democrat Rep in this race). One person who finally is able to overcome the multiple roadblocks The DNC has put up to win a Mayoral Race doesn't erase the fact that The DNC will do everything their power to make sure Progressives lose (to the point where I 10000% believe that if the choice were to win with a real Progressive or lose to a Republican, The Democrats would absolutely choose to lose to the Republican with a big ol smile on their face).

 

[Silvanus]

He says, blowing off an attack on speech using capricious and arbitrary methods. Something that should be unthinkable in the realm of politics.

Saying something failed is blowing it off? We must pretend that every terrible action was successful?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Saying something failed is blowing it off? We must pretend that every terrible action was successful?

Okay phoenixmgs.

 

[Silvanus]

I had thought the replacement was a girl but I mixed them up with someone else when I had read one of Crimson's earlier posts (Crimson was referring to someone else when I thought he was referring to the replacement so that's on me).

Fair enough.

But yes, it's not something I've paid much attention to. So if you would like to prove me wrong and show me all the Progressive things to challenge The DNC she has said since being put in this position of power to show me that she hasn't just sat down and shut up like I said she had, feel free to.

None of these people have been in position long enough to realistically have made any particular stand as VC-- Hogg hadn't either, the DNC had a bug in its bonnet about a project that predated his campaign.

Conrad worked on both Sanders campaigns. She ran a PAC that hugely boosted the number of black women in WA state legislature (if we're talking about uprooting the established demographic makeup of the Dems). She opposed the recall of Kshama Sawant of the Socialist Alternative Party. And she managed a campaign that raised millions to fight child labour and human trafficking.

I expect that it hasn't happened as people who actually do speak out against The DNC and their practices generally come across my news feeds/Twitter feeds/Discord talks/whatever because those are the kinds of people I celebrate and want to know more about but I AM making an assumption here that she hasn't done that since she hasn't shown up making waves in my usual circles.

I get that, but that's the algorithm for you. It'll reinforce expectations.

Ultimately though, it may not even matter. Like...let's say for fun that I agree with you that this was a "Success Story". I STILL would say tearing down The Democrats and building a new party would be the better option as even with how wildly popular Mamdani has been, they're still doing everything in their power to stop him (even though he is supposed to be the Democrat Rep in this race). One person who finally is able to overcome the multiple roadblocks The DNC has put up to win a Mayoral Race doesn't erase the fact that The DNC will do everything their power to make sure Progressives lose (to the point where I 10000% believe that if the choice were to win with a real Progressive or lose to a Republican, The Democrats would absolutely choose to lose to the Republican with a big ol smile on their face).

Alright. That's fine, I'm not here to argue against this conclusion. I originally responded because I thought the way this story had been framed was lacking the details, and that the details showed progressives had succeeded here.

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Bedinsis]

Uncertain if this belongs in this thread, I honestly thought we had a separate topic just for the Epstein files, but nonetheless:

Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com)

NOTABLE -- Pam Bondi refuses to answer direct questions about if the FBI has incriminating photos of Trump with half-naked young women, but instead deflects from them by attacking Sen. Whitehouse

bsky.app

Patton Oswalt (@pattonoswalt.bsky.social)

He’s seen the photos, she’s seen the photos, and there’s nothing else she can do or say. This is textbook, “I will never ask you a question I don’t already know the answer to.” [contains quote post or other embedded content]

bsky.app

 

[Seanchaidh]

She opposed the recall of Kshama Sawant of the Socialist Alternative Party.

But apparently disagrees with Kshama Sawant on whether the Democratic Party is where progressive movements go to die. Where does she stand on Sawant's independent run against Adam Smith for Washington's 9th District?

And she managed a campaign that raised millions to fight child labour and human trafficking.

Not exactly ruffling many feathers with that, I imagine. Or maybe she is.

That's good energy-- I look forward to a similar level of aggressive rebuttal when Sean next trumpets for Russian imperialism! /s

You want crimson to shift the focus away from the wrongdoing of the United States and its toadies while you advocate the bleeding of Ukraine to continue a war on behalf of the United States? Not surprising. Anyway, the Democrats have "progressives" the same way your country has a "Labour" party.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

*MRW watching everyone even vaguely left leaning argue and bicker over who's to blame for Trump winning (somehow not the fault of Trump voters)*



OK everyone, as fun as it is to constantly run this argument about why the DNC lost (and seems content to keep losing from what they keep on doing), not only does this not address the literal elephant in the room of all the people the willingly who voted for this, we are now not even through one year of this and are already at the stage of National Guard units occupying cities and people being snatched off the streets.

Like, I know this is an (almost dead) internet forum and quite a few people here aren't even in the states, but can we do something more constructive than blame game and finger point at each other?