US 2024 Presidential Election

[tstorm823]

That could not be more diametrically opposed to the truth.

I think you somehow magically in your own mind have erased the part where he tries to physically fight the officers off of him. They also didn't claim anything like he pulled the trigger on them. There are a thousand ways the statements could be more diametrically opposed to the truth, but in the real events being different and the statement being different.

Why are you insistent on taking it to an obviously false extreme? If the truth is sufficient to make your case, why do you need to lie and exaggerate?

I really do think that it's far more likely that more Democrats work for government because they tend to believe in the government more.

How do you imagine that began? Do you think that the Republican Party just spontaneously decided at some point that they hate the government in principle and want to destroy it? Eisenhower signed the interstate system and the Department of Health and Human Services into existence, even Nixon had a relatively expansive view of the role of government. Do you think, perhaps, it might have something to do with the administration that some argue rewrote the constitutional order?

 

[Thaluikhain]

But what practical use is perpetual Republican rule if its also perpetually inept?

Sticking it to the Libs, getting rid of 'them'?

 

[tstorm823]

-Tarrifs are bad for the economy as everyone already predicted they would be.

On what evidence do you base this claim?

 

[thebobmaster]

Bah! America doesn't need no allies! She stands on her own! Did we need allies when we got our independence?!

I'm aware we did. That was the joke.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

He's not saying XYZ happened because he's the authority, he's says it because he documented it. You can say same about this very article here, a journalist document said things and you can choose not to believe it as well.

U.S. Citizens Illegally Detained by Los Angeles Authorities Due to Secure Communities Program Errors - ACLU of Socal

A coalition of civil rights groups today offered evidence that United States citizens have been illegally detained, sometimes for many days, due to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) “holds” placed on them after these men and women were erroneously flagged as deportable. The U.S. citizens...

www.aclusocal.org

Here's what I said:

Please show me articles about ICE killing US citizens during the Obama administration, articles about them attacking families in cars with flashbangs, or articles about them sending immigrants to foreign prisons without due process and in contravention of judicial orders.

I also don't remember thousands of federal agents being deployed to cities to hunt down immigrants "door to door" without warrants, or them refusing to cooperate with local law enforcement, or them harassing off-duty police. Please show me evidence of this happening under the Obama administration.

And you provide an article about how a man got arrested for shoplifting and made to sleep on the floor for a day.

And that's why I don't take what you've said seriously, because these are not even in the same realm of extreme.

 

[Bedinsis]

On what evidence do you base this claim?

There is near unanimous consensus among economists that tariffs are self-defeating and have a negative effect on economic growth and economic welfare, while free trade and the reduction of trade barriers has a positive effect on economic growth.
For the US specifically:
Research shows that "the costs of the Safeguard Measures [steel tariffs] outweighed their benefits in terms of aggregate GDP and employment".
A 2021 study by Oxford Economics and the U.S.-China Business Council concluded that the United States lost 245,000 jobs as a result of the [first term] Trump tariffs.

There can be other reasons to put tariffs in place but from an economic point of view tariffs are bad and counterproductive.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Bah! America doesn't need no allies! She stands on her own! Did we need allies when we got our independence?!

I'm aware we did. That was the joke.

To put it another way, if the US didn't have allies then, it wouldn't be the way it is now.

 

[bluegate]

So to why people would even bother protesting ICE rather than letting them do their job. Probably because when ICE seizes children they end up here

The flaw in your thinking process is looking at these people as humans, they really aren't. They are "illegals" or "illegal aliens" and as thus all ill acts carried out against them is justified. Just stop thinking of them as humans and all is peachy.

And if you do start thinking of them as humans, remember they are illegal humans, they have done something bad and thus deserve punishment.

 

[tstorm823]

There is near unanimous consensus among economists that tariffs are self-defeating and have a negative effect on economic growth and economic welfare, while free trade and the reduction of trade barriers has a positive effect on economic growth.
For the US specifically:
Research shows that "the costs of the Safeguard Measures [steel tariffs] outweighed their benefits in terms of aggregate GDP and employment".
A 2021 study by Oxford Economics and the U.S.-China Business Council concluded that the United States lost 245,000 jobs as a result of the [first term] Trump tariffs.

There can be other reasons to put tariffs in place but from an economic point of view tariffs are bad and counterproductive.

That tells me why someone might believe that in advance, I want to know what he thinks confirmed that from the current economic situation.

Inevitable follow-up once we discuss how positive the economy is by nearly every metric, how amazing does Hades think the economy under Trump would be without tariffs? How high are those expectations that the current reality falls so obviously short?

 

[Hades]

On what evidence do you base this claim?

News as this. Or this. Or this
Trump’s tariff disaster: How protectionism has crippled America’s economy - The Daily Cardinal
Trump tariffs have failed to reduce trade deficits
The Economic Effects of President Trump’s Tariffs — Penn Wharton Budget Model

Seeing you laud the economy is heartening since most other Americans seem grumpy about it

 

[tstorm823]

News as this. Or this. Or this
Trump’s tariff disaster: How protectionism has crippled America’s economy - The Daily Cardinal
Trump tariffs have failed to reduce trade deficits
The Economic Effects of President Trump’s Tariffs — Penn Wharton Budget Model

Seeing you laud the economy is heartening since most other Americans seem grumpy about it

None of those are news. All of those are theory and projection, abstract models that are worthless if they aren't validated by actual outcomes.

Gas is relatively low, rents are actually falling year over year, food costs that were rapidly rising in 2022 and 2023 have mostly leveled off.
Real wages are up over 1% from last year, as wage increases outpace inflation.
If you have a job, the greatest instability at the moment is electricity, which is largely the fault of AI, and at some point somethings gotta give, cause lighting the world on fire to lie faster can't possibly be a good thing. If you don't have a job, there's a high probability that you got dropped out of specifically tech and government positions and you weren't actually productive anyway, and now you have opportunity to find a real job that helps people.
And not that it really effects people's day-to-day life, but GDP is up 4-5%.

And just about everyone is about to get a bigger than usual tax return, because they passed tax cuts mid-year, and most people didn't adjust down their withholdings. Americans are about to have more money in their pockets, which has crazy cascading effects on almost everything. Of course I'm lauding the economy. I'm not saying all of this is because of tariffs, but only that there is no obvious sign that tariffs are preventing economic gains, unless you otherwise were expecting the greatest economic boom in history.

 

[Agema]

I'm not saying all of this is because of tariffs, but only that there is no obvious sign that tariffs are preventing economic gains,

They are preventing economic gains - reasonable estimates are that tariffs shaved off 0.2-0.5% from the USA's GDP in 2025.

However, obviously, as long as the economy is generally doing okay, the USA may still experience growth because other factors are growing the economy more. For instance, you mention tax cuts. These are estimated at $3.5-5 trillion over ten years, so $350-500 billion a year. That's >1% GDP. So an extra 1% GDP a year comfortably offsets tariff chaos. Unfortunately, of course, those tax cuts are also racking up national debt.

But that's tomorrow's problem, I guess. As long as people are happy in the here and now, what can the problem be?

 

[BrawlMan]

I'm glad this guy. It shows the coward he is and got his butt kicked.

What we know about Anthony Kazmierczak after man arrested for attack on Ilhan Omar

Ilhan Omar declaring that ‘these f***ing ***holes’ were not going to get away with the attack

www.the-independent.com

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

m.youtube.com

​

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Agema]

Do you think, perhaps, it might have something to do with the administration that some argue rewrote the constitutional order?

No, because that doesn't directly determine who works for the civil service.

I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing: you sound like you're arguing that the government should be banned from doing certain left-wing things because it might cause more Democrats than Republicans to want to be civil servants.

I don't think the Democrats somehow operated some sort of malign control to block Republican recruitment into the civil service, and I've certainly never seen any meaningful evidence to defend that. Which suggests Republicans are a minority because you guys want to do the job less, and honestly, that's kind of your own fault.

There's certainly an irony that whilst you're busy shutting down everyone else's affirmative action programs, you're proposing a fucking massive one for yourselves.

 

[BrawlMan]

So how is the so called god king 'president' and his bitches gonna fix their fuck ups?

Dollar has its worst day since April after Trump says he's not concerned with recent slide

The value of the U.S. currency, which directly affects consumers, hit its weakest level since early 2022.

www.nbcnews.com

The dollar could have further to fall as its decline creates a 'double-edged sword' for America

The U.S. dollar fell on Tuesday after President Donald Trump insisted the currency — which declined notably last year — is doing "great."

www.cnbc.com

 

[tstorm823]

an extra 1% GDP a year comfortably offsets tariff chaos. Unfortunately, of course, those tax cuts are also racking up national debt.

Taxes offsetting other taxes sounds perfectly plain to me. I don't know why new tariffs are chaos but cutting income taxes is racking up debt, though. Seems rhetorically imbalanced.

There's certainly an irony that whilst you're busy shutting down everyone else's affirmative action programs, you're proposing a fucking massive one for yourselves.

Getting power over the direction and staffing of the government because you won the election is not an affirmative action program.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I think you might want to examine your party's rhetoric. How did El presidente start his presidential career again? They bring crime, they bring drug, they're rapist and some he merely assumes are good people. The bad intentions and inherent depravity of illegal migrants being front line and center, and the idea that some might be decent people merely a theoretic possibility.

And what does ICE always say? That they're keeping America safe? But safe from what? From crime, from drugs, from rape? So why don't they hyper focus on those illegal migrants rather than go on a violent wild arrest spree of those that might they assume be theoretically good people?

Illegal migration is largely an economic issue, but ICE frames it as a safety issue and that says exactly how they view illegal migrants. Not as people keeping their head down and working for absolute peanuts, but as thieves, murderers and rapists.




And perhaps this process being rampant throughout ICE causes ICE itself no small amount of trouble. Police people don't inherently have a seething hatred for the people they are supposed to police either. It happens, but its not supposed to be the case. With ICE that's different. With how thoroughly intertwined they are with Trump you can't say they hold leftists and migrants in anything other than the lowest regard, and as you can see that causes a lot of problems and resentment that could have been skipped over had actual law enforcement been there instead of ICE.


Then perhaps the treasonous rats shouldn't have fetishished themselves doing just that while putting tarrifs on people saying Greenland shouldn't be stolen by a bunch of ingrates.

Firstly, it's not my party. Both party's rhetoric is awful, that's partially why I don't vote for either of them. You simply can't have illegal immigrant in any significant amount, no country allows that. The left has double standards, the left doesn't want to enforce immigration laws, which you can't just choose to ignore federal law. When Arizona tried to make immigration state law more stringent, it was struck down by the Supreme Court because state's can't alter federal law. The left is trying to have their cake and eat it too. I don't really care about how ICE frames it, their job is necessary. TSA frames themselves as being there for safety and that's not true.

This process isn't anymore rampant through ICE than any other law enforcement agency. People don't have consideration for how hard a job it is in any law enforcement agency, ICE or a normal cop.

The left rhetoric is as harmful.

Here's what I said:



And you provide an article about how a man got arrested for shoplifting and made to sleep on the floor for a day.

And that's why I don't take what you've said seriously, because these are not even in the same realm of extreme.

I was responding to Tippy saying ICE is operating under the same rules as they always have, then you responded with this:

Because they didn't do the same thing under Obama. They also didn't do the same thing under the first Trump administration either.

ICE is operating under the same rules as they've always had and now you are all protesting it (before any deaths). Guess what ICE wasn't dealing with under Obama or Trump's first term, constant protesting/protestors. Protesting inherently makes the environment more prone to violence.

 

[Hades]

Firstly, it's not my party. Both party's rhetoric is awful, that's partially why I don't vote for either of them. You simply can't have illegal immigrant in any significant amount, no country allows that. The left has double standards, the left doesn't want to enforce immigration laws, which you can't just choose to ignore federal law. When Arizona tried to make immigration state law more stringent, it was struck down by the Supreme Court because state's can't alter federal law. The left is trying to have their cake and eat it too. I don't really care about how ICE frames it, their job is necessary. TSA frames themselves as being there for safety and that's not true.

This process isn't anymore rampant through ICE than any other law enforcement agency. People don't have consideration for how hard a job it is in any law enforcement agency, ICE or a normal cop.

The left rhetoric is as harmful.

But is that the case? Illegal migration has existed for decades and while its never particularly liked it does have its alleged uses. Firstly because the work they do is work that the home grown population by and large doesn't want to do, and because they can be squized absolutely dry, and big business can rake in the profits which certain parties always insisted trickled down.

Not that I think its a net positive. The society disruption is more costly than whatever work they do. But that disruption too is largely the creation of the far right. And are we not long in a situation where the medicine is far more harmful than the alleged illness? Is migration really so important that a state should be held under complete siege about it? Is it so important that practically all other matters should be put secondary to it as in my own country? Is it so bad that children should be put in torture prisons? And is dealing with migration so important that we should let complete amateurs and freaks hijack the government just because they're the loudest voice on the issue?

The world is practically on fire right now, but even before that its just hard to imagine some brown people working for peanuts ever genuinely being a country's top priority. All that time, effort and money spend on this shit could be spend far more productively.

I can't help but think of a certain quote from the Donald in his debate with Biden ''Who build those cages, Joe?'' The answer to this was of course Obama and it was meant as a gotcha. Sometimes its also asked why Obama and Biden didn't get flack for their deportation numbers. So the idea that the left simply doesn't want to enforce migration laws might not genuinely exist within the right beyond the talking point that anything short of extreme fanaticism is ''not doing anything about migration''

Obama and Biden met their deportation numbers plenty. They just weren't obsessed freaks about it.

 

[tippy2k2]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5711343-democrats-schumer-immigration-demands-dhs-funding/

Useless fucking party

"Here's all the money you guys want! Just promise to stop being evil with it!!!!"

Republicans couldn't get away with half the bullshit they get away with if Democrats had even the shadow of a spine in their damn backs...