I am pretty much ignoring the "it was staged" fools, for anybody following into that deep conspiracy well.
US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
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While the Trump administration is the kind of clown show to actually try to stage it, i don't find it likely.
And lots of assassinations go wrong. Many wannabe assassins are amateurs.
And lots of assassinations go wrong. Many wannabe assassins are amateurs.
So, it's a non-punishment case of being thrown in a max-sec prison known for torture indefinitely? I don't think you understand the concept very well.
Especially if you're comparing it to a psychiatric hospital.
If the suffering isn't the purpose, why ship them overseas to a max-sec prison known for torture instead of some other facility not known for being a torture camp? If it's for holding migrants for processing, why claim people you've sent there cannot be returned as they would need to be to, you know, process them?
What I would do as president is several more things, because things have changed. I would, in fact, make sure that there is -- we immediately surge to the border. All those people who are seeking asylum, they deserve to be heard. That's who we are. We're a nation who says, if you want to flee, and you're freeing oppression, you should come. - Biden
Full transcript: Democratic debate in Houston
The full dialogue between the 2020 presidential candidates, including Andrew Yang and Joe Biden, from the third Democratic debate in September 2019.
They moved the end date of the vaccine solely for political reasons, there was no actual scientific reason to change the original end date.
Can you link to the page you got this from? The US Census Bureau website is a bit of a labyrinth.
That does not in any way rebut anything that I said. Rather, it exemplifies the underlying criticism that "while Trump et al have liked to paint the Biden administration as having an "open border" policy and being weak on enforcement, and like to point to the raw immigration numbers in that period as proof...that's cherry picking the data by ignoring the enforcement statistics", and just using the numbers as a prop without actual examination of the numbers, their causative factors, or significance.What I would do as president is several more things, because things have changed. I would, in fact, make sure that there is -- we immediately surge to the border. All those people who are seeking asylum, they deserve to be heard. That's who we are. We're a nation who says, if you want to flee, and you're freeing oppression, you should come. - Biden
Full transcript: Democratic debate in Houston
The full dialogue between the 2020 presidential candidates, including Andrew Yang and Joe Biden, from the third Democratic debate in September 2019.www.nbcnews.com
View attachment 14532
And here you are doing exactly that: Just repeating the same raw immigration numbers you did before in order to dismiss the enforcement figures, actions on record, and analysis of the what and why behind all of them. (Such as, once again, the implementation of Title 42 expulsions leading to a marked increase in repeat attempts for the policy's duration).
Hell, the graph you're propping up is tracking total immigration figures. Not the illegal immigration figures. That includes students, asylum seekers and refugees, lawful permanent residents, and people here on nonimmigrant visas, and does not individually track unlawful immigration as any of its categories. Their definitions and how they get their figures can be found here. So, unless you're trying to argue that any form of immigration is itself the problem, it does not support the point you're invoking it to push.
And for all that you're trying to turn Biden's comment into some kind of smoking gun, I remind you that this has been on the Statue of Liberty since 1903:
...Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
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Just got to point out that in this graph, in 2024, the increase was mainly from refugees. Biden also has the lowest levels of immigration. Also, Trump claims that Biden let in heaps of illegal immigrants. None of this is listed in the graph.
You keep using this word 'politcal.' I do not think it means what you think it means
There are multiple peaks and troughs on that chart, it is not hard to imagine the counterfactual situation where going into 2021 was a temporary peak, at which point it wouldn't look terribly different than previous peaks in 2019, 2016, 2014, and many more if you look back further. If you look at one of the other graphs they posted, one with a broader data set but not the country of origin breakdown, that repeated pattern of peaks at or slightly above 50k in a month goes on for years:
The end of 2020 is slightly higher than the average in previous years, but the spring of that year was dramatically lower, so the cyclical pattern was quite disrupted. That increase seemed to be levelled off before the Biden administration, in a way that one predicting based on precedent would expect to be a maximum before a decline. And then, it was not a maximum, because the next 4 years were totally unprecedented.
Lax being a relative measure, I don't think you can dispute that Biden was lax in a sense. Relative to saying "the borders are open, everyone in", he was not lax, that is true. Relative to previous US administrations, I think he was arguably the most lax in about a century. Who would you compare him to and say he was strincter on the border? Certainly no Trump or Obama or Clinton or either Bush. Reagan did amnesty, but that was meant to offset stricter border security measures. Like, Biden was assuredly a divergence in the lax direction, even if not close to the desires of internet lefties.
But I would agree, that laxness is not the cause of that up there ^. It's the perception of laxness that's the issue. Like, the actual laxness didn't kick in until a year or two after his inauguration, he kept many of Trump's harshest policies in place for years, by which point we were already near the peak. And even if he was more lax in policy than his predecessors, it was like 10% more lax, not a enormous amount to justify an enormous growth. The bigger change was the rhetoric and the perception. Consider the Democratic party platform's section on immigration in 2020 (minus some of the repudiation of Trump at the beginning, focusing on what they were promising):
We will start by righting the wrongs of the Trump Administration.
Democrats will rescind President Trump's fabricated "National Emergency," which siphons funding away from our men and women in uniform to construct an unnecessary, wasteful, and ineffective wall on the southern border.
We will immediately terminate the Trump Administration's discriminatory travel and immigration bans that disproportionately impact Muslim, Arab, and African people, and invite those whose visas have been denied under these xenophobic and un-American policies to re-apply to come to the United States. We will support legislation to ensure that no president can enact discriminatory bans ever again.
We will reinstate, expand, and streamline protections for Dreamers and the parents of American citizen children to keep families together in the communities they have long called home.
Democrats believe the United States should be a beacon of hope for those who are suffering violence and injustice, which is why we will protect and expand the existing asylum system and other humanitarian protections. We will reverse Trump Administration policies that prevent victims of gang and domestic violence, as well as LGBTQ+ people who are unsafe in their home countries, from being eligible to apply for asylum. Democrats will end Trump Administration policies that deny protected entry to asylum seekers, put them at great risk, and destabilize our neighbors and the broader region. And we will end prosecution of asylum seekers at the border and policies that force them to apply from "safe third countries," which are far from safe.
Democrats believe that our fight to end systemic and structural racism in our country extends to our immigration system, including the policies at our borders and ports of entry, detention centers, and within immigration law enforcement agencies and their policies and operations. And Democrats will immediately halt enforcement of and rescind the Trump Administration's un-American immigrant wealth test.
Even as we work to reverse the enormous damage caused by the Trump Administration, we are determined to build a 21st century immigration system that embodies our values, expands economic opportunity for all Americans, and enhances our global competitiveness.
Democrats believe it is long past time to provide a roadmap to citizenship for the millions of undocumented workers, caregivers, students, and children who are an essential part of our economy and of the fabric of our nation. We will fast-track this process for those workers who have been essential to the pandemic response and recovery efforts, including health care workers, farmworkers, and others. We will also eliminate unfair barriers to naturalization, reduce application backlogs, and make our immigration processes faster, more efficient, and less costly. These reforms will strengthen our communities, our families, our economy, and our country. Democrats oppose President Trump's illegal, chaotic, and reckless changes to the legal immigration system, including decisions to slash family-based immigration as well as H-1B and other visa programs that can help our economy.
Democrats believe family unity should be a guiding principle for our immigration policy. We will prioritize family reunification for children still separated from their families, and we will restore family reunification programs ended by the Trump Administration. We support legislation to treat the spouses and children of green card holders as immediate relatives and end their unfair separation. We will eliminate family-based green card backlogs and reform the system to speed up family-based visas. And we will work with Congress to eliminate immigration barriers, such as the three- and 10-year bars, and remove the 10-year waiting period for waivers to the permanent bars that keep loved ones apart.
We believe we should expand, not reduce, the annual visa cap for victims of human trafficking, including victims of sex trafficking, violence against women and children, and other heinous crimes; ensure that same sex-couples and their children receive equal treatment in the immigration and naturalization systems; reaffirm America's commitment to family-based immigration; and preserve the critical role of diversity preferences in our immigration system. Democrats will ensure that law-abiding individuals with Temporary Protected Status or Deferred Enforced Departure are not sent back to countries where they cannot live safely, and we will work to pave a path to citizenship for those who have been in the country for an extended period of time and built their lives in the United States.
Democrats know that when employers feel free to abuse and bully immigrant workers, all workers suffer. That's why we will hold employers accountable, promote workers' rights, and prioritize the enforcement of labor and employment laws across the economy, including discrimination and sexual harassment protections, wage and hour laws, and health and safety rules. We will prevent employers from taking advantage of immigrant workers by establishing an affirmative process to request deferred action for workers who report labor violations and by supporting the Domestic Workers' Bill of Rights and the Protect Our Workers from Exploitation and Retaliation (POWER) Act.
We will ensure that enforcement mechanisms are humane and consistent with our values and international humanitarian obligations. That's why we will end workplace and community raids. We will protect sensitive locations like our schools, houses of worship, health care facilities, benefits offices, and DMVs from immigration enforcement actions, and prohibit raids in which children and members of vulnerable populations are left behind without their caregivers. We will prohibit enforcement actions that deter access to justice at courthouses and repress freedom of speech and assembly, end programs that force state and local law enforcement to also be responsible for immigration enforcement, and stop targeting men and women who served in uniform and their families. We will reaffirm enforcement officials' ability to engage in the pre-Trump practice of prosecutorial discretion for deserving cases, including when needed to address humanitarian issues or other injustices. We will also prevent enforcement officials from retaliating against individuals for their political speech or activity, or because of their efforts to advocate for individuals' rights.
We believe detention should be a last resort, not the default. Democrats will prioritize investments in more effective and cost-efficient community-based alternatives to detention. We will end for-profit detention centers and ensure that any facility where migrants are being detained is held to the highest standards of care and guarantees their safety and dignity. We will ensure all detention centers provide access to competent interpreters who speak migrants' native languages and dialects. Detention of children should be restricted to the shortest possible time, with their access to education and proper care ensured. We will prioritize alternatives to detention for individuals with special vulnerabilities—those who are known to be suffering from serious physical or mental illness, who have disabilities, who are elderly, pregnant, or nursing, who demonstrate that they are primary caretakers of children or an infirm person, identify as gay, lesbian, transgender, gender non-conforming, or intersex, or whose detention is otherwise not in the public interest.
Democrats will implement robust mechanisms for oversight, accountability, and transparency to ensure immigration agencies abide by our values, the U.S. Constitution, and international law.
Democrats believe immigration judges should be able to operate free of inappropriate political influence, and will support steps to make immigration courts more independent. We will demand that leaders of our immigration agencies be Senate-confirmed professionals, and that Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection personnel abide by our values and professional, evidence-based standards and are held accountable for any inappropriate, unlawful, or inhumane treatment.
A 21st century immigration system that honors our values is an essential prerequisite not just to recovering from the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, but to strengthening our democracy and guaranteeing America's long-term economic competitiveness. That's why Democrats believe in improving and increasing opportunities for legal, permanent immigration. Our family, humanitarian, and diversity pathways have contributed immeasurably to the vibrancy and productivity of American society and should continue to be the centerpiece of our immigration system. We also support awarding visas for permanent, employment-based immigration in a way that is responsive to labor market needs. We want to attract and keep talent in this country, which is why Democrats will end the Trump Administration's freeze on green cards for new immigrants and instead pursue a meaningful reform agenda.
Democrats support policies and programs to make it easier for qualified immigrants and their families to become full and equal citizens, including increasing funding for culturally appropriate immigrant inclusion and citizenship services, legal support, English classes and bilingual education, workforce development, and adult education.
Finally, Democrats will address the root causes of migration—violence and insecurity, poverty, pervasive corruption, lack of educational and economic opportunity, and the impacts of climate change. Disciplined American leadership and well-designed assistance programs can help prevent and mitigate the effects of migration crises around the world, from Southeast Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa to Central America. We will support a comprehensive strategy to strengthen security and prosperity in partnership with the people of Central America and the Caribbean and with the support of the international community. And we will renew American diplomacy as our tool of first resort, rebuild our partnerships and alliances, and once again lead the global humanitarian response.
Democrats will rescind President Trump's fabricated "National Emergency," which siphons funding away from our men and women in uniform to construct an unnecessary, wasteful, and ineffective wall on the southern border.
We will immediately terminate the Trump Administration's discriminatory travel and immigration bans that disproportionately impact Muslim, Arab, and African people, and invite those whose visas have been denied under these xenophobic and un-American policies to re-apply to come to the United States. We will support legislation to ensure that no president can enact discriminatory bans ever again.
We will reinstate, expand, and streamline protections for Dreamers and the parents of American citizen children to keep families together in the communities they have long called home.
Democrats believe the United States should be a beacon of hope for those who are suffering violence and injustice, which is why we will protect and expand the existing asylum system and other humanitarian protections. We will reverse Trump Administration policies that prevent victims of gang and domestic violence, as well as LGBTQ+ people who are unsafe in their home countries, from being eligible to apply for asylum. Democrats will end Trump Administration policies that deny protected entry to asylum seekers, put them at great risk, and destabilize our neighbors and the broader region. And we will end prosecution of asylum seekers at the border and policies that force them to apply from "safe third countries," which are far from safe.
Democrats believe that our fight to end systemic and structural racism in our country extends to our immigration system, including the policies at our borders and ports of entry, detention centers, and within immigration law enforcement agencies and their policies and operations. And Democrats will immediately halt enforcement of and rescind the Trump Administration's un-American immigrant wealth test.
Even as we work to reverse the enormous damage caused by the Trump Administration, we are determined to build a 21st century immigration system that embodies our values, expands economic opportunity for all Americans, and enhances our global competitiveness.
Democrats believe it is long past time to provide a roadmap to citizenship for the millions of undocumented workers, caregivers, students, and children who are an essential part of our economy and of the fabric of our nation. We will fast-track this process for those workers who have been essential to the pandemic response and recovery efforts, including health care workers, farmworkers, and others. We will also eliminate unfair barriers to naturalization, reduce application backlogs, and make our immigration processes faster, more efficient, and less costly. These reforms will strengthen our communities, our families, our economy, and our country. Democrats oppose President Trump's illegal, chaotic, and reckless changes to the legal immigration system, including decisions to slash family-based immigration as well as H-1B and other visa programs that can help our economy.
Democrats believe family unity should be a guiding principle for our immigration policy. We will prioritize family reunification for children still separated from their families, and we will restore family reunification programs ended by the Trump Administration. We support legislation to treat the spouses and children of green card holders as immediate relatives and end their unfair separation. We will eliminate family-based green card backlogs and reform the system to speed up family-based visas. And we will work with Congress to eliminate immigration barriers, such as the three- and 10-year bars, and remove the 10-year waiting period for waivers to the permanent bars that keep loved ones apart.
We believe we should expand, not reduce, the annual visa cap for victims of human trafficking, including victims of sex trafficking, violence against women and children, and other heinous crimes; ensure that same sex-couples and their children receive equal treatment in the immigration and naturalization systems; reaffirm America's commitment to family-based immigration; and preserve the critical role of diversity preferences in our immigration system. Democrats will ensure that law-abiding individuals with Temporary Protected Status or Deferred Enforced Departure are not sent back to countries where they cannot live safely, and we will work to pave a path to citizenship for those who have been in the country for an extended period of time and built their lives in the United States.
Democrats know that when employers feel free to abuse and bully immigrant workers, all workers suffer. That's why we will hold employers accountable, promote workers' rights, and prioritize the enforcement of labor and employment laws across the economy, including discrimination and sexual harassment protections, wage and hour laws, and health and safety rules. We will prevent employers from taking advantage of immigrant workers by establishing an affirmative process to request deferred action for workers who report labor violations and by supporting the Domestic Workers' Bill of Rights and the Protect Our Workers from Exploitation and Retaliation (POWER) Act.
We will ensure that enforcement mechanisms are humane and consistent with our values and international humanitarian obligations. That's why we will end workplace and community raids. We will protect sensitive locations like our schools, houses of worship, health care facilities, benefits offices, and DMVs from immigration enforcement actions, and prohibit raids in which children and members of vulnerable populations are left behind without their caregivers. We will prohibit enforcement actions that deter access to justice at courthouses and repress freedom of speech and assembly, end programs that force state and local law enforcement to also be responsible for immigration enforcement, and stop targeting men and women who served in uniform and their families. We will reaffirm enforcement officials' ability to engage in the pre-Trump practice of prosecutorial discretion for deserving cases, including when needed to address humanitarian issues or other injustices. We will also prevent enforcement officials from retaliating against individuals for their political speech or activity, or because of their efforts to advocate for individuals' rights.
We believe detention should be a last resort, not the default. Democrats will prioritize investments in more effective and cost-efficient community-based alternatives to detention. We will end for-profit detention centers and ensure that any facility where migrants are being detained is held to the highest standards of care and guarantees their safety and dignity. We will ensure all detention centers provide access to competent interpreters who speak migrants' native languages and dialects. Detention of children should be restricted to the shortest possible time, with their access to education and proper care ensured. We will prioritize alternatives to detention for individuals with special vulnerabilities—those who are known to be suffering from serious physical or mental illness, who have disabilities, who are elderly, pregnant, or nursing, who demonstrate that they are primary caretakers of children or an infirm person, identify as gay, lesbian, transgender, gender non-conforming, or intersex, or whose detention is otherwise not in the public interest.
Democrats will implement robust mechanisms for oversight, accountability, and transparency to ensure immigration agencies abide by our values, the U.S. Constitution, and international law.
Democrats believe immigration judges should be able to operate free of inappropriate political influence, and will support steps to make immigration courts more independent. We will demand that leaders of our immigration agencies be Senate-confirmed professionals, and that Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection personnel abide by our values and professional, evidence-based standards and are held accountable for any inappropriate, unlawful, or inhumane treatment.
A 21st century immigration system that honors our values is an essential prerequisite not just to recovering from the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, but to strengthening our democracy and guaranteeing America's long-term economic competitiveness. That's why Democrats believe in improving and increasing opportunities for legal, permanent immigration. Our family, humanitarian, and diversity pathways have contributed immeasurably to the vibrancy and productivity of American society and should continue to be the centerpiece of our immigration system. We also support awarding visas for permanent, employment-based immigration in a way that is responsive to labor market needs. We want to attract and keep talent in this country, which is why Democrats will end the Trump Administration's freeze on green cards for new immigrants and instead pursue a meaningful reform agenda.
Democrats support policies and programs to make it easier for qualified immigrants and their families to become full and equal citizens, including increasing funding for culturally appropriate immigrant inclusion and citizenship services, legal support, English classes and bilingual education, workforce development, and adult education.
Finally, Democrats will address the root causes of migration—violence and insecurity, poverty, pervasive corruption, lack of educational and economic opportunity, and the impacts of climate change. Disciplined American leadership and well-designed assistance programs can help prevent and mitigate the effects of migration crises around the world, from Southeast Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa to Central America. We will support a comprehensive strategy to strengthen security and prosperity in partnership with the people of Central America and the Caribbean and with the support of the international community. And we will renew American diplomacy as our tool of first resort, rebuild our partnerships and alliances, and once again lead the global humanitarian response.
I'm sure you will pitch that it is unrelated to either policy or rhetoric, that the 4 year surge was a result of outside causes, but I would point out that not only does that height match the period of particularly welcoming rhetoric, both of Trump's inaugurations coincide with local minimums even lower than the covid lockdowns. In politics, perception has real consequences, and I really think the Trump (and Obama for what it's worth) version is the better option because the perception of our border laws matches the reality. You and I both know that the actual legal distinctions between Biden's administration and those that came before him are relatively small, that of the ~3 million people showing up at the border in those peak years only a very small fraction are still allowed in the US. A ~500% increase in people coming vs a ~50% increase in actual grants of asylum demonstrates a marked disconnect between perception of US immigration and reality, and I think those millions of people were misled, and I think Biden's administration did them a disservice by not being clear about the reality while they were trying to distinguish themselves from Trump.[/spoiler]
Because that's the one place that was offering. Bukele proactively offered space in CECOT to Trump over a month before that happened, and Trump basically said "we appreciate the offer, but have no plans to do so". Then in March, Venezeula (which had many people crossing borders in the preceding years) started turning down deportees, and Trump decided it was an opportunity to take up Bukele's offer. The timeline does not support the idea that he actively picked CECOT as the place he wanted to send people because of CECOT's specific qualities.
Because it was for deporting people, not processing them. Deportation is a civil, administrative action, not a criminal penalty. You don't get deported because you committed a crime, though many immigration actions are crimes, you get deported because it reestablishes the civil status quo of you being where you are supposed to be. In this case, Salvadorans who Bukele would have put in CECOT already got put in CECOT, and Venezuelans of similar circumstances were held until Venezuela accepted their return.
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Bravo for that turn of phrase.
Anyhoo, regarding the Trump assassination...I find I don't care if it was staged. If it was, it means that Trump is lying about seriously important things and holding the US/the world in contempt. If it wasn't, same old, which is more or less the same.
Or where the government arbitrarily decides you should be. In the case of those who were given permission to be here, never told anything different, and then deported & imprisoned.
A "counterfactual" is something that didn't happen. If we are dealing with reality, the best tactic is to discuss reality rather than make-believe.
The data clearly indicates a sustained increase in attempts to cross the Mexican-US border starting in 2020. If you want to argue some sort of separate mini-peak in 2020 separate from the continuing trend 2021-2023, then it's your responsibility to provide an evidence-based reason.
There is an obvious novel development in the Biden administration, which is a surge in immigration across the Mexican border from atypical areas (South America, Cuba, and Asia). Why? I don't think positive signalling about immigration cuts the mustard as an explanation at all.
Look at the data: there's a dip in virtually every single year around the new year, which strongly suggests something is going on at this time of year. I'm putting my money on the fact it's winter, and the weather makes crossing less favourable. Also, those of us experienced in data observation would be very cautious about placing too much reliance on one or two data points, because it might just be random fluctuation.
Okay, so what did he do that was lax, precisely? He cancelled a ton of Trump's immigration restrictions - but these were overwhelming ones on legal immigration. And anyway, these would simply reset to Obama-era. There's plenty of evidence that with the huge increase across the border, he rapidly shifted to expand capacity at the border, new measures to control immigration (some of which did not work), and to close immigration routes through central America and Mexico.
Sure. And what responsibility are you and the Republican party taking for that? Because that's a perception you work hard at to win people's votes. It's fine if you want to blame Democrats for hope and love and human brotherhood messaging, but half of American politics and media are Republican, and that half is also pumping out a message to the world that when a Democrat takes charge it's free entry for anyone who wants to just pop over the border and stay long-term, get a job and welfare.
But like I said, I just don't think that's what really matters.
Again, as per my previous comments and Asita's, there are perfectly good explanations for why this immigration surge happened based in the normal key factors of economic opportunity, instability/conflict, access to information or travel opportunities, etc. These are compelling without needing to bring in nebulous claims about "perception".
Yes, I used that term to properly describe what I was saying. You don't have to define it for me. Me being upfront is not a weakness for you to strike out at, it's an invitation for discussion.
The combination of granting Venezuela TPS and this phenomen is pretty relevant to that. Additionally, the relationships between Venezuela, Cuba, and China would have some of their fates tied together a bit. Oh, and the tens of thousands of people flown into the country from Cuba and Venezuela, who would be contained in the data if they used the CBP One app (which was also being used as advertisement fuel for coyotes), might have contributed.
Effectively doubled the list of nations with TPS, allowing increasing numbers of people with deportation orders to stay in the US. Created a phone app to accelerate asylum applications. Increased the refugee cap. Implemented an additional policy allowing up to 30,000 migrants to be flown in from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Venezuela per month based on Presidential parole powers intended to be used on a case-by-case basis. There's a few things in there.
I quite agree, Republicans screaming "open borders" are making things worse. It's annoying that I can write everything, tell you that official immigration policies barely actually moved, describe migrants expecting open borders as tragically misled, and then have you ask me what responsibility I'm personally taking for that.
Okay. But I stress that I am not thrilled about an invitiation to imagine reasons to explain a phenomenon when I'm skeptical the phenomenon exists in the first place. It might be a discussion, but it feels to me like a pretty pointless one.
Sure. But that's the point I mean. Venezuela is a useful case; this is a classic example of why people emigrate because their country falls into disorder. (It's also worth noting that whilst Maduro's mismanagement is the main factor, US sanctions were also a very substantial contributor.) Yes, the trafficking gangs were getting smart - that report is dated 2022 and indicates they'd been on this for a while. It's not just the apps, they'd prepared whole physical logistical routes, even to South America. This is all what I mean by the fact it's not perception, it's the practicalities.
The TPS for Venezuela appears to have been granted 2023, which is towards the end of the immigration surge. But I suggest that the TPS and smilar schemes might be better seen as a reaction to a problem that had already occurred. People have poured over the border - what is the USA going to do with them?
- Send them straight back over the border to Mexico? This was tried, but a large proportion of them just tried to get in again, potentially multiple times.
- Detain them? For how long, at what cost? Do the facilities to do so even exist, and if not what's it going to take to set them up?
- Can the USA turn them out to their home or another country?
- How humane is any of this?
Take Trump. His immigration approval ratings are now negative, because it turns out that Americans on average don't like bully-boys rampaging through their towns on anti-immigrant hunts. The main reason it's viable for Trump is because nearly all the voters okay with that kind of heavy enforcement are Republican, and he doesn't need to care about the rest because he's not up for re-election. People are outraged about immigrants bundled off to dodgy Central American prisons, because it stinks to high heaven: even if someone tried to claim asylum they didn't merit or skipped over the border, it does not feel proportionate, humane and decent for a country that aspires to high moral standards.
I might say of Trump that perhaps what we're seeing is a load of policy that prior administrations have considered and rejected because they predicted how badly it's going to play out for them and the country.
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A full length version that don't involve faffing with the taint of spotify. Can't edit old post so this is just remastered old post. 4K 60fps and optional battlepass included.
And as it turns out, the guy to whom she was angrily referring was... a childhood migrant from Malaysia, making her comment doubly ignorant and alienating.
* * *
I'd struggle to find it, but I saw a very interesting analysis of UK voters, precisely why Labour is in real trouble.
Broadly, if you imagine a British-focused "Political Compass" (economic on the x-axis, -1 left socialist to +1 right capitalist) and social attitudes on the y-axis (-1 bottom liberal / progressive to +1 top conservative / nationalist +1 top) then British voters roughly fall into two camps. There's a broadly horizontal smear that runs from about (0.5, 1) to (1, 0.5). The left half of this smear is Reform, and the right part Consevative. Then there's a diagonal smear in the bottom left quadrant (roughly -1,-1 to just past 0,0). This smear covers Green at the extreme end, then Liberal Democrat and Labour intermingled in the middle, and 'Undecided / don't know' around the 0,0.
There analysis strongly suggests that the critical divide is social values. Labour might want to unite the economic left, but it can't when the big divide is on social matters, and in the course of trying to win over left-leaning Reform voters, all it is likely to achieve is alienating its liberals / progressives. And so this is what's Labour is trying, and why it's just torching its own supporter base.
Immigration has been an 80-90/20-10 issue for nearly 100 years (at least since the 50s), the vast vast vast vast majority are content with that "normal" level of immigration and did not want anymore than that. This is a democracy, maybe you should do what the people want? You're also not mentioning all the asylum fraud. The immigration narrative wasn't even some invented thing, the normies even noticed all the immigrants. A co-worker at my last last job even mentioned all the immigrants in tents at the park for her family BBQs that were never there at any time before in her life and she's not even political.
So the pushing back of the end date of the vaccine trial so that the vaccines weren't out before the election was just a coincidence and was not at all politically motivated?
And again, that does not rebut anything I said or provided, and instead consists of you injecting anecdote to try and override the data so as to force your predetermined conclusion.